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4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #126  
Old 03-01-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
RIch, there is two ways to get more fuel, increase the duration the injector is opened, and/or increase fuel pressure. If the check valve is leaking, it is taking the fuel pump more time to come up to the correct fuel pressure on a cold start.......Obviously you didn't think of a leaking fuel check valve.....
Again, if the problem was the fuel table being wrong, there would be thousands and thousands of people complaining of cold-starts!!
Rich, check out this thread.........

http://www.ranger-forums.com/forum2/...ad.php?t=81177
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  #127  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by Shmokinjoe View Post
Maybe you could answer a question for me. I finally bought an X3 to correct my speedo. I have 33's with a 4.30 gear(I think stock was 225/70/15 with a 3.55). I thought my truck was over geared, or....putting on miles too fast. I used 615 for revs/mile and it seems like it's even more in that direction. Does a lower number revs/mile = higher speedo reading and odometer runner faster?
In your case you'll need to do three things.

1) Verify with your tuner that the 4.30 ratio is still set under the max allowed. (I don't know why.. but there is a chart where you enter max and min allowed.)

2) Change the gear ratio to match your actual. (4.30)

3) Go to the tire manufacture and find out how many revs per mile your tire is speced for.

If all that is done correctly your speedo will read about 2% faster than your actually traveling. (thank papa ford for that on) BUT.. the PCM will be displaying the proper speed (measured against a GPS)
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  #128  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by 07Ranger View Post
a stock auto ranger with a tune, towing, performance, whatever tunes are available, are able to get better shift points, but what exactly are you doing?
"Better shift points" is a completely relative term. Shift points are a mapping of TP vs vehicle speed. If you deviate from just scaling the stock parameters higher or lower.. it's a complete re-map. Then on top of that torque convertor lockup schedules are a whole-nother realm of remapping.

These two have consumed 80% of my time. It's takes a stupid amount of time to program and then go try it. I suspect this is why the "tuners" out there just sweep the stock charts and scale them. That's not tuning skill in my book.

My tuck drives VASTLY better in daily traffic than when it was stock. TQ convertor lock has a lot to do with it too.

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Originally Posted by 07Ranger View Post
i mean are you basically lagging the computer? not letting it upshift and keeping the governor pressure steedy or what. kinda confused
LOL I can tell. There is no such thing as lagging the computer or governor pressure.

Shifts are a result of a "map" (see above description)
Pressures are a result of several maps. At low TP (throttle postion) I leave everything really close to stock. And from about 15% throttle and above I ramp up pressures and decrease shift times. This took a lot of trial and error too. But I must say I've got this nailed down now. It's nice. Real nice. At low TP you woundn't know its not stock. At mid TP its got a nice little forward shove. And at WOT it's almost a tire bark. It's even barked a few times with the right road conditions and surface temps.




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Originally Posted by 07Ranger View Post
wouldnt this cause more wear on the convertor since you are not letting it shift therefore causing more heat then stock.?
Torque convertor heat and wear is directly related to how much it slips during it's enguagement and release. In my tune I have decreased the time it slips.

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Originally Posted by 07Ranger View Post
Have you messed with stall at all? any convertors out there for performance for us 4-banger guys that youve seen that would work well with these tunes?
Stall speed is mechanical. You can't change it with tuning. (mine is stock)

Rich
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  #129  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Rich, check out this thread.........
It was 1F this morning not including the wind chill. My truck had not been started in approx 44hrs. Key on, waited the same amount of time I always have, and it fired up within 1/2 a second.

Commanding more fuel during crank (injectorss) would not fix a situation where there is a lack of fuel in the fuel rail.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 03-02-2009 at 09:20 AM.
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  #130  
Old 03-02-2009
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Again, if the problem was the fuel table being wrong,...
And yet again bob, you did not read what I wrote. I've never said the ford fuel table was wrong.


Typical bob...
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  #131  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
And yet again bob, you did not read what I wrote. I've never said the ford fuel table was wrong.


Typical bob...

Gee Rich, trying to weasel out of one of your srewups again!!

Are you saying somebody besides you made this post:

Anyway.. in the tune I found something very interesting! The stock ford tune doesn't add any fuel for colder temps *during the crank*. None at all. Good grief.. that's like try to start a old school car without setting the choke!
I figured I'd try adding some fuel during the crank and WOW!! Now i fires right up. This morning it was -1F and the truck fired up with only about 1 second of cranking.
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  #132  
Old 03-02-2009
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Bob, I find it amazing that your so blinded by your hated for me. Instead of taking what I say out of context why don't you post the whole point?

You call me a weasel and a screw up. Well.. hold up a mirror when you point that finger and you'll just about have it correct.



Here is what I said in the sentance JUST ABOVE what you copy pasted:

"I didn't know if it was winter fuel, fuel filter, dirty injectors, ect.. But since this is repeatable and has done it since day one I suspected it was intended by ford to have this "feature". I donno.. maybe it's to allow for oil flow?"
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  #133  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Bob, I find it amazing that your so blinded by your hated for me. Instead of taking what I say out of context why don't you post the whole point?

You call me a weasel and a screw up. Well.. hold up a mirror when you point that finger and you'll just about have it correct.



Here is what I said in the sentance JUST ABOVE what you copy pasted:

"I didn't know if it was winter fuel, fuel filter, dirty injectors, ect.. But since this is repeatable and has done it since day one I suspected it was intended by ford to have this "feature". I donno.. maybe it's to allow for oil flow?"

Well, you are WRONG HERE TOO Rich, as you can see from the thread I posted, extending cranking after sitting can be due to the fuel pump check valve, and this is what I originally posted in your thread when you started the BS about the fuel table being WRONG!!

Again, check your fuel pump check valve.......extended cranking IS NOT a built in FEATURE from Ford!!!


But Rich, I'm really not surprised, coming from somebody that doesn't know what OPEN LOOP, and CLOSED LOOP is!!
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  #134  
Old 03-02-2009
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  #135  
Old 03-02-2009
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Nice way to avoid the point thar bob.


If there is little fuel or a lack of fuel pressure in the fuel rail during crank...
Commanding the fuel injector to be open more during that very short time won't change anything. Or at the very least it would be sparadic depending on fuel pressure.

And like I've said tuning the key and letting it prime.. even repeatedly doesn't change anything. Not to mention I can see what papa ford is commanding for lamda during crank.

You just can't face facts can you bob?

I'm right your wrong. Next issue.
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  #136  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Nice way to avoid the point thar bob.


If there is little fuel or a lack of fuel pressure in the fuel rail during crank...
Commanding the fuel injector to be open more during that very short time won't change anything. Or at the very least it would be sparadic depending on fuel pressure.

And like I've said tuning the key and letting it prime.. even repeatedly doesn't change anything. Not to mention I can see what papa ford is commanding for lamda during crank.

You just can't face facts can you bob?

I'm right your wrong. Next issue.



The fact is Rich, you don't have a clue on what your talking about! How long does the fuel pump run with the ignition in the "RUN" position before goes into the "START" position? This is enough time to start to build pressure if it has leaked off, and widening the injector pulse during the intital start will allow more fuel to flow.....DUH!!!!
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  #137  
Old 03-02-2009
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wow, can we be civilized here... none of us are pros.. how about working together on idea's????? would that be so hard???
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  #138  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
The fact is Rich, you don't have a clue on what your talking about!
The mirror is your friend. Get to know him a little better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
How long does the fuel pump run with the ignition in the "RUN" position before goes into the "START" position?
2-3 seconds. And the run time is the same every time you cycle the key.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
This is enough time to start to build pressure if it has leaked off, and widening the injector pulse during the intital start will allow more fuel to flow.....DUH!!!!
You just made my point. I'm confused.. why do you argue if you agree?


Rich
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  #139  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by roddy1 View Post
wow, can we be civilized here... none of us are pros.. how about working together on idea's????? would that be so hard???
I agree. And I've sent multiple PMs to bob to try and get him to see this.

Hey I'm **not and expert**. But I know what I observe from first hand trial and error. If someone feels I'm wrong I welcome their factual input. Mud slinging no.. facts yes. And if I'm ever shown to be wrong I'll gladly make the correction.. or even and appology if need be.

I simply want to improve the knowledge base of this R-F community.
I take no stance of protecting a company, idealogy, or perception. I'm only interested in truth.


Regards, Rich
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  #140  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
The mirror is your friend. Get to know him a little better.



2-3 seconds. And the run time is the same every time you cycle the key.



You just made my point. I'm confused.. why do you argue if you agree?


Rich
Rich, try and understand this concept.....If the check valve in the fuel pump is bad, this will cause the fuel to leak off, causing extended cranking!!
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  #141  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Rich, try and understand this concept.....If the check valve in the fuel pump is bad, this will cause the fuel to leak off, causing extended cranking!!
Bob I not only agree with this.. I'm 2 steps ahead of you.

Cycling the key will restore that lost pressure. My truck still starts harder with increased cold temps! I can cycle it 5 times letting the pump run each time. Still.. hard starting with cold temps.

When I command it to be richer.. it fires right up!
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  #142  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
I agree. And I've sent multiple PMs to bob to try and get him to see this.

Hey I'm **not and expert**. But I know what I observe from first hand trial and error. If someone feels I'm wrong I welcome their factual input. Mud slinging no.. facts yes. And if I'm ever shown to be wrong I'll gladly make the correction.. or even and appology if need be.

I simply want to improve the knowledge base of this R-F community.
I take no stance of protecting a company, idealogy, or perception. I'm only interested in truth.


Regards, Rich


Gee, lets see the world according to Rich:

1) Thermostats have to close to allow coolant to cool in the radiator

2) Dirty MAF sensors WILL NOT cause a lean code to be thrown

3) You should run plugs too cold, and with a short reach

4) 10W30 oil is thicker than 5W30 oil when HOT
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  #143  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
1) Thermostats have to close to allow coolant to cool in the radiator
Absolutely true. If the stat doesn't restrict flow by closing all the way or in part you'll have thermal run away in hot weather.

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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Dirty MAF sensors WILL NOT cause a lean code to be thrown
Sometimes yes.. sometimes no. There is a operating range thats in the tune. If that range is exceeded it'll thow a CEL and go to another chart to determine MAF vs rpm settings. Commonly refered to as limp home mode.

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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
3) You should run plugs too cold, and with a short reach
If your spraying more than a 50shot. Yes. Absolutely. I'm running them yr round and letting it warm up in the morning. Works great.

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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
4) 10W30 oil is thicker than 5W30 oil when HOT
Yes. Absolutely true. Oil viscosity is measured by a "strokes" system. Look it up.
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  #144  
Old 03-02-2009
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Gee, lets see the world according to Rich:


btw, It interesting how bob deflects focus away from facts. Good try... no sale.
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  #145  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Absolutely true. If the stat doesn't restrict flow by closing all the way or in part you'll have thermal run away in hot weather.


Sometimes yes.. sometimes no. There is a operating range thats in the tune. If that range is exceeded it'll thow a CEL and go to another chart to determine MAF vs rpm settings. Commonly refered to as limp home mode.



If your spraying more than a 50shot. Yes. Absolutely. I'm running them yr round and letting it warm up in the morning. Works great.



Yes. Absolutely true. Oil viscosity is measured by a "strokes" system. Look it up.


....and one more beauty.....93 octane gasoline won't cause increased carbon build up.......


And Rich, On each of these items, I've posted mutliple references to prove you WRONG!!!
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  #146  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
btw, It interesting how bob deflects focus away from facts. Good try... no sale.

Rich, I'm going to say this one last time! The PCM fuel tables is not the route cause of your extending cranking time!!!! Changing it the way you did is compensating for some other problem!!!!
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  #147  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by Takeda
4) 10W30 oil is thicker than 5W30 oil when HOT
Yes. Absolutely true. Oil viscosity is measured by a "strokes" system. Look it up.


Rich, I know you use Mobil-1, so I looked up the viscosities of 5W30, and 10W30, and not only is 10W30 NOT thicker when HOT, 5W30 is actually a little thicker!!

Mobil-1 Product Data Sheets:

Mobil-1 5W30





Mobil-1 10W30

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  #148  
Old 03-03-2009
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Thanks for the de-rail bob.

Looks like the data you post is correct (centi strokes)... for a labatory environment. In my engine I don't run new oil at 100C. I run used oil at about 75C.

Now please.. lets keep this thread productive on the topic of tuning. I'm no expert but I have been spent well over 150hrs in the SCT pro racer software thus far.

Regards, Rich
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  #149  
Old 03-03-2009
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Thanks for the de-rail bob.

Looks like the data you post is correct (centi strokes)... for a labatory environment. In my engine I don't run new oil at 100C. I run used oil at about 75C.

Now please.. lets keep this thread productive on the topic of tuning. I'm no expert but I have been spent well over 150hrs in the SCT pro racer software thus far.

Regards, Rich
Aren't you running the stock thermostat? If so, how do you figure your oil is running at 75C? And even if it is, if you notice, the 5W30 is also slightly thicker than the 10W30 at 40C

That's another thing you made a bad post on. You thought oil thickened as it was "used". As oil is used, it thins, or the viscosity drops due to shear.

Is your term "de-rail" the same thing as correction?

Last edited by Takeda; 03-03-2009 at 07:10 AM.
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  #150  
Old 03-03-2009
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Stop with the derailment of this thread. Take it to another one if you wish.
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