gas
#1
10-23-2008
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Location: Connecticut
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gas
hey,
i have noticed this, but i was wondering about you guys. Around here, we have a gas station called cory's. they were the 1st one around to have a cheaper for cash then credit, and no matter what they have always had THE CHEAPEST gas. Ive noticed when i used the mega cheapo gas, my truck will ping when i really get on it. When i go to shell or a station thats actually well known, i dont have the same thing happening. any one else notice this, or am i just crazy?
i have noticed this, but i was wondering about you guys. Around here, we have a gas station called cory's. they were the 1st one around to have a cheaper for cash then credit, and no matter what they have always had THE CHEAPEST gas. Ive noticed when i used the mega cheapo gas, my truck will ping when i really get on it. When i go to shell or a station thats actually well known, i dont have the same thing happening. any one else notice this, or am i just crazy?
#3
10-23-2008
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#4
10-24-2008
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#5
10-24-2008
There is a lot more to it than that. Period.
Our engines are designed to work perfect with 87 Octane gas. If you use a lower octane, it will combust too fast. This creates a knocking or pinging sound. If you use a higher octane, it will combust too slowly and with less heat. This will not create knocking pinging. The only effect you can recognize is less MPG and less money in your wallet. You do not gain power, speed, performance, or anything else. Higher octane fuels are only for engines specifically designed and/or tuned to use it properly.
If you engine pings with 87 octane gas from the cheapo station I would stop using that gas immediately. It is crap and obviously there is a reason it is so cheap. Something is wrong with it.
Our engines are designed to work perfect with 87 Octane gas. If you use a lower octane, it will combust too fast. This creates a knocking or pinging sound. If you use a higher octane, it will combust too slowly and with less heat. This will not create knocking pinging. The only effect you can recognize is less MPG and less money in your wallet. You do not gain power, speed, performance, or anything else. Higher octane fuels are only for engines specifically designed and/or tuned to use it properly.
If you engine pings with 87 octane gas from the cheapo station I would stop using that gas immediately. It is crap and obviously there is a reason it is so cheap. Something is wrong with it.
#6
10-24-2008
Unregistered User
Posts: n/a
I used to be the same way and now I won't use Shell gasoline and I'll tell you why. In 2004, Shell released a batch of gasoline from their Norco, Louisiana refinery that contained roughly 100 times the maximum amount of sulfur allowed. It damaged over 10,000 engines, including my own. That fuel ended up all over the Gulf Coast, from Florida to Texas at mostly Shell stations, but at other branded stations as well. Shell apologized for the mistake and then fought tooth and nail to not have to pay for anything. A class action lawsuit was filed...don't know what happened with it
Any company with that kind of poor quality control isn't getting their fuel in my tank. I use Valero fuel...it's produced a few miles from my home and I know first-hand that the refinery is well-run and produces quality gasoline. If I can't find Valero gas, I use Exxon or Mobil, another quality supplier. Shell has burned all bridges for me.
And, don't forget, just because the gas station has the flag of one oil company does NOT mean that the gas came from one of their refineries. That sign on the gas station reflects a marketing agreement and not necessarily the fuel being pumped. There are exceptions...corporate owned Valero stations (called "Corner Store" here) will always have genuine Valero fuel, whenever possible. Corporate owned Exxon and Mobil stations (called "On the Run" or "Tigermarket" here) will always have genuine Exxon fuel whenever possible. The ones that are inconsistent are the independent stores or regional chains.
The town I grew up in, small town. there was one fuel truck that delivered to all the gas stations in town...Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, Shell and the no-name gas places. The only one who was genuine was the Diamond Shamrock...which is now Valero.
Any company with that kind of poor quality control isn't getting their fuel in my tank. I use Valero fuel...it's produced a few miles from my home and I know first-hand that the refinery is well-run and produces quality gasoline. If I can't find Valero gas, I use Exxon or Mobil, another quality supplier. Shell has burned all bridges for me.
And, don't forget, just because the gas station has the flag of one oil company does NOT mean that the gas came from one of their refineries. That sign on the gas station reflects a marketing agreement and not necessarily the fuel being pumped. There are exceptions...corporate owned Valero stations (called "Corner Store" here) will always have genuine Valero fuel, whenever possible. Corporate owned Exxon and Mobil stations (called "On the Run" or "Tigermarket" here) will always have genuine Exxon fuel whenever possible. The ones that are inconsistent are the independent stores or regional chains.
The town I grew up in, small town. there was one fuel truck that delivered to all the gas stations in town...Chevron, Texaco, Exxon, Shell and the no-name gas places. The only one who was genuine was the Diamond Shamrock...which is now Valero.
#7
10-24-2008
A common mis-conception is that higher octane means a slower burn. That's not the case. Octane in gasoline is the fuel resistance to detonation.
Also often mis-understood is pre-ignition vs detonation.
I won't get into brands because truth is none of us know for sure what is what.
I do have good experience with Amaco 93, shell 93, an sunoco 94.
For this thread "detonation" is the issue.....
What happens in all cases is that the fuel is conducting heat from the metal parts of the engine, the air is highly compressed (also very hot), and so this air/fuel mix is right on the verge of exploding. The sprak plug sparks and sets off the burn. At least this is whats supposed to be happening.
Well in this threads issue of cheap gas and "pinging", the fuels *quality* and/or *octane* is just low enough that the air/fuel charge starts to burn inconsistantly for the given load. It could be the octane.. it could be the lack of certian additives.. or a combination of the two.
The air/fuel charge litterally starts to burn in multiple areas all at once. That causes the flame fronts to crash into each other, reach the piston face at differing times, and to cause random shock waves that bounce all over the combustion chamber within those few miliseconds when the piston is just about to reach the top of it's stroke. If bad enough the pcm CAN'T retard spark enough and you'll hear an audible "knock". (the stock ford tune on my 2006 has a 7 degree limit when retarding)
A better quality fuel (like shell V-power) will have the ability to resist this spontanious combustion in multiple areas. It will only be ignited when the spark plug sparks. Thus the flame front is a single one and hits the piston face in the way that ford designed it to happen.
I know it's temping to just put the cheapest gas in. But there is no way to get around this unless you either lower the load, back off the timing, or increase the PCMs ability to retard timing. Or... just buy quality gasoline to begin with.
Also, if by chance the fuel is not atomized well (dirty injectors and/or carbon on the intake valve) it can also contribute to detonation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Rich
Also often mis-understood is pre-ignition vs detonation.
I won't get into brands because truth is none of us know for sure what is what.
I do have good experience with Amaco 93, shell 93, an sunoco 94.
For this thread "detonation" is the issue.....
What happens in all cases is that the fuel is conducting heat from the metal parts of the engine, the air is highly compressed (also very hot), and so this air/fuel mix is right on the verge of exploding. The sprak plug sparks and sets off the burn. At least this is whats supposed to be happening.
Well in this threads issue of cheap gas and "pinging", the fuels *quality* and/or *octane* is just low enough that the air/fuel charge starts to burn inconsistantly for the given load. It could be the octane.. it could be the lack of certian additives.. or a combination of the two.
The air/fuel charge litterally starts to burn in multiple areas all at once. That causes the flame fronts to crash into each other, reach the piston face at differing times, and to cause random shock waves that bounce all over the combustion chamber within those few miliseconds when the piston is just about to reach the top of it's stroke. If bad enough the pcm CAN'T retard spark enough and you'll hear an audible "knock". (the stock ford tune on my 2006 has a 7 degree limit when retarding)
A better quality fuel (like shell V-power) will have the ability to resist this spontanious combustion in multiple areas. It will only be ignited when the spark plug sparks. Thus the flame front is a single one and hits the piston face in the way that ford designed it to happen.
I know it's temping to just put the cheapest gas in. But there is no way to get around this unless you either lower the load, back off the timing, or increase the PCMs ability to retard timing. Or... just buy quality gasoline to begin with.
Also, if by chance the fuel is not atomized well (dirty injectors and/or carbon on the intake valve) it can also contribute to detonation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Rich
Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 10-24-2008 at 07:33 AM.
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