My POR-15 & dual battery project
#1
My POR-15 & dual battery project
So I want to set my Ranger up with dual batteries for winching. I plan to put the second battery inside a toolbox in the bed. I'm going to remove the bed when I run the wiring. I want to POR-15 the frame from the rear of the cab back while I have the bed off. Amazon has a POR-15 starter kit that includes a 4 oz. can of POR-15 (enough to cover 12 square feet). Will this be enough to do the frame from the cab back?
#2
No it wont. Needs quart (the 4 inches tall? size can). Also I did the entire rear including: inside of frame, crossmembers, skid plates, leaf springs, blah blah whatever else there was. I didn't waste my time with all the "pre por-15" chemicals. I grabbed a wire brush to hit anything thick and washed off all the dirt and **** i could. OH, i did use a can of engine degreaser to help.
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#3
#4
#8
Oh I'm sorry I wasn't looking at usernames, and the sudden switch to electronics stuff confused me. My bad, you're fine. I've thought of second battery too but without insulating it, it'd just die in the winter for me.
#9
I've been reading up on dual battery setups @ the piranha off road website.
According to the info on that website my wiring plan won't work for a newer vehicle because a standard battery isolator won't protect modern electronics from power spikes. They offer an isolator that has built in protection (http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/index.p...s/dbe140s.html), but it only has 3 poles which won't allow me to hook up a SPDT switch, which I really wanted to do so I could self-jump start. Anyone have any thoughts about this? I know there are members on RF that have used a standard solenoid isolator, has anyone had problems with this setup? The piranhaoffroad website also says to only run a winch off of the auxiliary battery, and not the primary battery. I had planned on using the primary battery for winching when I have the winch on the front of the truck, and use the auxiliary battery when winching at the rear of the truck, this way I reduce the distance between the winch and the battery. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
According to the info on that website my wiring plan won't work for a newer vehicle because a standard battery isolator won't protect modern electronics from power spikes. They offer an isolator that has built in protection (http://piranhaoffroad.com.au/index.p...s/dbe140s.html), but it only has 3 poles which won't allow me to hook up a SPDT switch, which I really wanted to do so I could self-jump start. Anyone have any thoughts about this? I know there are members on RF that have used a standard solenoid isolator, has anyone had problems with this setup? The piranhaoffroad website also says to only run a winch off of the auxiliary battery, and not the primary battery. I had planned on using the primary battery for winching when I have the winch on the front of the truck, and use the auxiliary battery when winching at the rear of the truck, this way I reduce the distance between the winch and the battery. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!
#10
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
If you haven’t already finished the POR-15 thing, consider removing all components from the frame that you can without broken bolts. Dirt and all kinds of stuff get un the corners of the frame and cause corrosion, rot that is and rusting, get all of the stuff out you can; I used an air gun to blow out a lot of stuff behind and under everything.
Remember POR-15 needs a cover paint.
On the electrical side of the thread - have you looked at Painless Wiring Kit offering a dual battery kit ?
Painless Performance: 250 Amp Waterproof Dual Battery Current Control System
Manual: http://www.painlesswiring.com/Manuals/40103.pdf
Also, consider running your ground wires to a common point under the hood, this will eliminate or at least reduce corrosion problem associated with grounds under the truck. The frame although always used for grounds does not always offer good connections.
Use a good quality heat shrink with internal adhesive on all connections, this will reduce corrosion and help to support the cable ends.
Just thinking out loud, when I read your thread, hope it all works out.
Remember POR-15 needs a cover paint.
On the electrical side of the thread - have you looked at Painless Wiring Kit offering a dual battery kit ?
Painless Performance: 250 Amp Waterproof Dual Battery Current Control System
Manual: http://www.painlesswiring.com/Manuals/40103.pdf
Also, consider running your ground wires to a common point under the hood, this will eliminate or at least reduce corrosion problem associated with grounds under the truck. The frame although always used for grounds does not always offer good connections.
Use a good quality heat shrink with internal adhesive on all connections, this will reduce corrosion and help to support the cable ends.
Just thinking out loud, when I read your thread, hope it all works out.
#11
Thanks for the advise. I am actually working out of state right now and won't be starting this project until i get home, December 15th. I do plan on stripping as many parts off of the frame as I can to get the POR-15 everywhere. I have considered the Painless Wiring kit, but I determined I can buy the parts separately for less money. And I plan on using 1/0 wire. For some reason, @ weldingsupply.com, the 1/0 wire actually costs less than 2 gauge. I plan on buying 50 feet since 50ft or more gets you a small discount. However much cable I have left after wiring up the dual batteries I am going to use to make jumper cables. I'm going to put a quick disconnect on the front and rear bumpers so I can plug in my winch or the jumper cables at either end of the truck. I also decided I want to solder all of the cable lugs into place rather than just crimping them. I am going to use heat shrink tubing at all the ends, and I'm going to run all the cable inside of loom.
#12
#13
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
I have considered the Painless Wiring kit, but I determined I can buy the parts separately for less money. And I plan on using 1/0 wire. For some reason, @ weldingsupply.com, the 1/0 wire actually costs less than 2 gauge.
Thinking buy a kit similar to Painless and all of the extra cable from this Welder’s Supply.
If you need a good suppler for solenoids try Northwest Power Products / Wrangler Power Products, they have great heavy duty stuff.
Think 50 feet for the jumpers with extensions.
I'm going to put a quick disconnect on the front and rear bumpers so I can plug in my winch or the jumper cables at either end of the truck. I also decided I want to solder all of the cable lugs into place rather than just crimping them. I am going to use heat shrink tubing at all the ends, and I'm going to run all the cable inside of loom.
The winch, what make winch, warn uses three wires from the Control Box to the Winch so you will need the control box mounted on the Slide-Mount.
The Vehicle Schematics is great, like it !
Luck with the project.
#14
what kind of OTHER electrics are you going to be running when winching? if your running a basically stock set up, i.e. no big stereo, no off road lights, you can probably just upgrade to an explorer alternator and a better battery.
Think 50 feet for the jumpers with extensions.
The winch, what make winch, warn uses three wires from the Control Box to the Winch so you will need the control box mounted on the Slide-Mount.
Last edited by biketheozarks; 11-12-2012 at 04:43 AM. Reason: had wrong warn model #
#15
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
Currently I have no other electronics. However someday I would love to upgrade to a better stereo with an amp & some off road lights also. I kind of have my heart set on the dual battery setup. I think I might upgrade to a better alternator anyway, but not right away since I just had mine rebuilt. I have a brand new battery, and when I do the second battery I'm going to buy the same one I have as a primary so they match. What years/engines of explorers would the alternators work for my '06 4.0L?
Batteries need to be as close to the same age as possible in a dual battery setup.
Larger Alternator is a must, I’m thinking 180 to 200 amps, get as large a unit as you can.
Nice winch, should work ok with your setup.
Mine has a separate control box so I need to mount the box to the motor.
When you do your new wiring, get extra ground cable so you can redo the grounds under the hood, battery to frame, to engine and two others, one to the alternator housing and one to the starter mounting bolt or housing.
As said before, grounds are very important to a good electrical system.
Sorry to get carried away on this thread.
Luck with the new system.
#16
When you do your new wiring, get extra ground cable so you can redo the grounds under the hood, battery to frame, to engine and two others, one to the alternator housing and one to the starter mounting bolt or housing.
Positive from front quick disconnect to rear disconnect, approximately 20 feet (according to Google the ext cab is 16ft, 10.9in bumper to bumper). Negative for front & rear disconnect, primary battery to frame, and aux battery to frame, 12 feet (3ft each). For the battery to engine, alternator, and starter should 4 foot each do it? That would be 44 feet all together. Then if I want 25ft jumpers I will need another 50 feet of cable. Holy crap that's a lot of cable! May as well plan on buying 100 feet!
#17
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
Wow, 100 feet of “0” ga welding cable, wondering $$$ ?
The 25 foot cables work for me not saying you need that length just don’t get caught SHORT ! lol
If you are going to do it, Do It Right The First Time, the only way.
Think about a connector on one end, about 2 feet in, so you can change the ends from Bumper Connector to Clamps when needed.
So far I have used the Clamps more than the Connector but I have it if either I need a jump or a vehicle is close enough to use the Bumper Connector.
There is a handle for this type of connector, I am thinking on getting it, helps when trying to pull apart the connectors.
Luck on the project, you will have a good grounding system, a good winch setup and a great and easy jumper system.
Oh ya, one more thing… soldering on jumper cables may or may not be the best thing, either buy or borrow a crimper that is designed for the lugs used in that connector. It is better to have a good mechanical bond first then think solder but if the crimping is done correctly you shouldn’t need the solder.
Now all other connections you should solder after getting a good mechanical bond.
Also, never pull the cables apart using the Welding Cables themselves, only the connectors; quickest way to pull the cable out of the connectors.
Sorry to get carried away, I will get off the soap box now.
The 25 foot cables work for me not saying you need that length just don’t get caught SHORT ! lol
If you are going to do it, Do It Right The First Time, the only way.
Think about a connector on one end, about 2 feet in, so you can change the ends from Bumper Connector to Clamps when needed.
So far I have used the Clamps more than the Connector but I have it if either I need a jump or a vehicle is close enough to use the Bumper Connector.
There is a handle for this type of connector, I am thinking on getting it, helps when trying to pull apart the connectors.
Luck on the project, you will have a good grounding system, a good winch setup and a great and easy jumper system.
Oh ya, one more thing… soldering on jumper cables may or may not be the best thing, either buy or borrow a crimper that is designed for the lugs used in that connector. It is better to have a good mechanical bond first then think solder but if the crimping is done correctly you shouldn’t need the solder.
Now all other connections you should solder after getting a good mechanical bond.
Also, never pull the cables apart using the Welding Cables themselves, only the connectors; quickest way to pull the cable out of the connectors.
Sorry to get carried away, I will get off the soap box now.
Last edited by Scrambler82; 11-14-2012 at 03:50 AM.
#18
Wow, 100 feet of “)” ga welding cable, wondering $$$ ?
Sorry to get carried away, I will get off the soap box now.
Last edited by biketheozarks; 11-14-2012 at 02:09 AM.
#19
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
Well when I first started researching prices at weldingsupply.com, there was a discount offered if you ordered 50 feet or more, but now that option seems to have disappeared. Current price is $3.45/ft, plus shipping for ultraflex orange. I'm thinking I may just get 50 feet for now, and order another 50 feet for the jumpers later down the road. With the toolbox & POR-15, this is going to be a pretty expensive project.
My need for advise is exactly why I joined RF! Thanks for the input!
My need for advise is exactly why I joined RF! Thanks for the input!
Good luck on the project.
#21
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
I’m with you on the indicator lights… but for $13 you can buy a nice switch without an indicator light, buy one or two LEDs in any color you want with mounting, and put the indicators anywhere you want AND you might have a little left over for a relay so the switch can be a super low current setup and cost even less.
Unless you want this look then go for it.
I purchased a toggle switch and a Red Flip Cap, separately for $6, the Web want $13 for the set.
Always watch your prices on this stuff, there is someone on the web selling cheaper.
The switch itself is interesting, two indicator lights can be nice, easier to locate at night.
What is the specifications on the switch ?
One more thing, the cabling you are going to use, is the black cable any cheaper in cost ?
Unless you want this look then go for it.
I purchased a toggle switch and a Red Flip Cap, separately for $6, the Web want $13 for the set.
Always watch your prices on this stuff, there is someone on the web selling cheaper.
The switch itself is interesting, two indicator lights can be nice, easier to locate at night.
What is the specifications on the switch ?
One more thing, the cabling you are going to use, is the black cable any cheaper in cost ?
#22
This switch is a Cole Hersee brand. The specifications are 25A @ 12V DC. It has silver contacts and is also supposed to be weather resistant. Black 1/0 cable is $2.71/ft and red is $2.63/ft. But they are less flexible. They claim the orange cable has four times as many copper strands as standard cable. I see now that a discount is still offered for the red or black if you order 50 feet of more. $2.50 for the black and $2.44 for the red. I just sent them an email to ask about a discount for the orange.
I'm really not sure how stiff the standard cable would be. I'm only concerned about flexibility where the cable connects to the batteries. I may consider buying enough of the orange just to do from the battery positives to the fuses and from the battery negatives to the frame. It might be worth it to stick to standard cable for the rest of the truck wiring, and use the ultra flex for the jumper cables.
I'm really not sure how stiff the standard cable would be. I'm only concerned about flexibility where the cable connects to the batteries. I may consider buying enough of the orange just to do from the battery positives to the fuses and from the battery negatives to the frame. It might be worth it to stick to standard cable for the rest of the truck wiring, and use the ultra flex for the jumper cables.
Last edited by biketheozarks; 11-16-2012 at 05:32 AM.
#23
Old Guy User…
iTrader: (12)
Flexibility is a plus plus type of thing and you don’t know you needed it until you have use the flexible cable.
The orange cable is nice stuff and the more strand the more current it will handle and the more flexible, also it appears to have a liner around the strands, nice touch.
Have you checked out Northwest Power Products on Cabling, they are a little high but they have what they call superflex red and black cable in up to 4/0, heavy stuff.
Also, in keep ing with electrical code red is 12 volt hot, black is 12 volt ground, if the next guy to get your truck tries to mod the wiring he might be in for a surprise.
ltr
The orange cable is nice stuff and the more strand the more current it will handle and the more flexible, also it appears to have a liner around the strands, nice touch.
Have you checked out Northwest Power Products on Cabling, they are a little high but they have what they call superflex red and black cable in up to 4/0, heavy stuff.
Also, in keep ing with electrical code red is 12 volt hot, black is 12 volt ground, if the next guy to get your truck tries to mod the wiring he might be in for a surprise.
ltr
#24
If I use red & black cables I'll do it like it should be, red positive, black negative. But if I use orange I will wrap the ends with red & black electrical tape for identification. Plus I am going to use red and black shrink wrap.
I just found out today that I get to go home for Thanksgiving for a week. I guess I will be getting started on this project sooner than I thought. Problem now is that I haven't ordered any of the parts yet so I'm not sure if I can get the parts in time.
Does anyone know what Explorer alternator (year/engine) I would need for my '06 4.0L Ranger?
I just found out today that I get to go home for Thanksgiving for a week. I guess I will be getting started on this project sooner than I thought. Problem now is that I haven't ordered any of the parts yet so I'm not sure if I can get the parts in time.
Does anyone know what Explorer alternator (year/engine) I would need for my '06 4.0L Ranger?
#25
Remember POR-15 needs a cover paint.
Ok, sorry I think I just found the answer about paint vs. chassis coat. The POR-15 website says the chassis coat is a topcoat. If I have enough paint left over after doing the frame I would like to do my drive shaft and whatever else I can get done. Does anyone know if POR-15 will withstand high heat? If so, I will do the exhaust with it (again, if I have enough left, I only ordered a quart).
Last edited by biketheozarks; 11-17-2012 at 03:13 AM.