Oil not changed for 7000 miles causing timing chain noise?!?!?!?
#26
06-08-2009
No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.
Last edited by karrbass4life; 06-08-2009 at 01:52 AM.
#27
06-08-2009
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No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.
#28
06-08-2009
#29
06-08-2009
Have you ever sent a sample of used oil off to be analyzed? They can not only test the oil and measure the levels of all the elements in the oil, but also usually diagnose any problems if they see abnormally high levels of an element.
I know a LOT of diesel guys send oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories to have it analyzed. They measure those levels, and also check the viscosity AND shear value of the oil. There are guys running bypass filter kits, putting 20k miles on an oil change, sending samples off to get tested, and finding out that their oil is STILL good. I know it sounds ridiculous., but I've seen some copies of those reports, and it is pretty awesome what all they can tell you.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_engines.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/diesel_engines.html
My point is, is that I see no problem running extended oil changes, AS LONG AS you have your oil analyzed and the results are that the oil's characteristics are not changed from when it was new. Although, IMO, to run 7k+ mile intervals, one should have an oil filter bypass kit so that smaller particles are also filtered from the oil.
#30
06-08-2009
the only reason i say they dont take a liking to full synthetic is because it seems that the ones i work on with full synthetic have more cam chain noise because i assume the chain tensioner seal does not hold the smaller synthetic oil molecules as well, but it seems to be working for you so i may be incorrect on this
The only information I have come across regarding the use of synthetic oil and the timing chain tensioner indicated using synthetic oil reduces the rattle problem. This information came from a mechanic that was working with a engine that had a slight timing chain rattle. He changed the oil to a good quality synthetic oil and the timing chain rattle went away. He said he did not know if it was going to be a permanent fix but did improve the existing condition.
#31
06-08-2009
freddie is correct on this. I have run the extended oil change intervals on two Rangers with oil analysis. The first Ranger had a 25,000 mile oil change interval and the viscosity would raise after 20,000 miles. I adjusted that by adding lower viscosity oil after changing the standard filter at 5,000 mile intervals. The oil analysis showed everything else stayed within the normal range. That engine had almost 200,000 miles on it when I sold it in 2002. It ran as good or better at 200,000 miles than when new. It is still running strong.
I decided to change the oil change interval to 20,000 miles for my current Ranger, just as a precaution.
I decided to change the oil change interval to 20,000 miles for my current Ranger, just as a precaution.
#32
06-08-2009
Where did you get the information that synthetic oil is made up of smaller molecules? I have seen information that synthetic oil is more uniform in molecular size than conventional oil. That information lead me to believe conventional oil has a wider range of molecular size but has an average size that is equivalent to synthetic oil. That means conventional oil contains some molecules that are smaller than the smallest molecules in synthetic oil.
The only information I have come across regarding the use of synthetic oil and the timing chain tensioner indicated using synthetic oil reduces the rattle problem. This information came from a mechanic that was working with a engine that had a slight timing chain rattle. He changed the oil to a good quality synthetic oil and the timing chain rattle went away. He said he did not know if it was going to be a permanent fix but did improve the existing condition.
The only information I have come across regarding the use of synthetic oil and the timing chain tensioner indicated using synthetic oil reduces the rattle problem. This information came from a mechanic that was working with a engine that had a slight timing chain rattle. He changed the oil to a good quality synthetic oil and the timing chain rattle went away. He said he did not know if it was going to be a permanent fix but did improve the existing condition.
if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
#33
06-08-2009
Ok but this is also speculation. I'm not arguing with you, just stating, this seems like speculation.
Have you ever sent a sample of used oil off to be analyzed? They can not only test the oil and measure the levels of all the elements in the oil, but also usually diagnose any problems if they see abnormally high levels of an element.
I know a LOT of diesel guys send oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories to have it analyzed. They measure those levels, and also check the viscosity AND shear value of the oil. There are guys running bypass filter kits, putting 20k miles on an oil change, sending samples off to get tested, and finding out that their oil is STILL good. I know it sounds ridiculous., but I've seen some copies of those reports, and it is pretty awesome what all they can tell you.
Blackstone Laboratories - Gas Engines
Blackstone Laboratories - Diesel Engines
My point is, is that I see no problem running extended oil changes, AS LONG AS you have your oil analyzed and the results are that the oil's characteristics are not changed from when it was new. Although, IMO, to run 7k+ mile intervals, one should have an oil filter bypass kit so that smaller particles are also filtered from the oil.
Have you ever sent a sample of used oil off to be analyzed? They can not only test the oil and measure the levels of all the elements in the oil, but also usually diagnose any problems if they see abnormally high levels of an element.
I know a LOT of diesel guys send oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories to have it analyzed. They measure those levels, and also check the viscosity AND shear value of the oil. There are guys running bypass filter kits, putting 20k miles on an oil change, sending samples off to get tested, and finding out that their oil is STILL good. I know it sounds ridiculous., but I've seen some copies of those reports, and it is pretty awesome what all they can tell you.
Blackstone Laboratories - Gas Engines
Blackstone Laboratories - Diesel Engines
My point is, is that I see no problem running extended oil changes, AS LONG AS you have your oil analyzed and the results are that the oil's characteristics are not changed from when it was new. Although, IMO, to run 7k+ mile intervals, one should have an oil filter bypass kit so that smaller particles are also filtered from the oil.
if you are spending alot of money on filters and oil, then it may be ok to run extended periods on your oil change, however, you are comparing a 7.3 diesel to a SOHC gasoline engine that usually hates life all together. in my 7.3, i ran 5000-6000 miles on an oil change with Rotella T and motorcraft filters, simply because i was driving it 3000 miles or more a month, and 15qts of oil and a FL-1995 filter aren't exactly cheap
#35
06-08-2009
Personally, I'm switching over to AMSOIL so that I can run at least 10k intervals. I will be sending the oil off to get analyzed, but I am racking up about 3k or more miles a month as well. I will be getting a oil filter bypass kit. Right now though the truck has AMSOIL syn blend in it with a WIX filter
Last edited by freddie; 06-08-2009 at 11:32 AM.
#36
06-08-2009
Justin, did you ever get your oil analyzed? I'm just asking. Because from most of the oil sample reports that I've seen, Rotella T's shear stability was decreased dramatically at around 4500 miles in the 7.3's. Use of the Rotella T beyond that is really not recommended, especially because the engine oil has a part in the performance of the injectors as well. I know... its not related to the 4.0 topic at hand, but I'm just curious.
Personally, I'm switching over to AMSOIL so that I can run at least 10k intervals. I will be sending the oil off to get analyzed, but I am racking up about 3k or more miles a month as well. I will be getting a oil filter bypass kit. Right now though the truck has AMSOIL syn blend in it with a WIX filter
Personally, I'm switching over to AMSOIL so that I can run at least 10k intervals. I will be sending the oil off to get analyzed, but I am racking up about 3k or more miles a month as well. I will be getting a oil filter bypass kit. Right now though the truck has AMSOIL syn blend in it with a WIX filter
#38
06-08-2009
Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which inproves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is NOT a fake. It is definitely a unique design.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.
I have received many reports of these filters failing at high pressures. It seems that the seam where the backplate crimps to the case can split.
It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.
I have received many reports of these filters failing at high pressures. It seems that the seam where the backplate crimps to the case can split.
Last edited by karrbass4life; 06-08-2009 at 06:18 PM.
#39
06-08-2009
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#40
06-08-2009
#41
06-08-2009
#43
06-08-2009
#45
06-10-2009
No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.
Found A Good One
#46
06-10-2009
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whether it be true or not, i have been told and it is shown in some of my text books that a "normal" conventional motor oil molecule can be compared to the size of a basket ball, and a synthetic oil molecule can be compared to the size of a tennis ball.
if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
#47
06-10-2009
this happened with my F-150. it had about 110k on it and i tried Mobil 1 and it leaked like crazy
#48
06-11-2009
Join Date: May 2007
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Ive never seen a SOHC 4.0 take a liking to full synthetic oil. I would change oil in it and put Motorcraft 5W30 in it and a Motorcraft filter and give that a try. Going 7000 miles on an oil change, especially with an overhead cam motor, regardless of what oil is in it, doesnt seem wise either.
my standpoint on oil is no matter what the manufacturer claims, oil will still go through viscosity breakdown
my standpoint on oil is no matter what the manufacturer claims, oil will still go through viscosity breakdown
#49
06-11-2009
If I used just plain conventional oil for 100k I'd probably be more inclined to go with a "High Mileage" synthetic or HM synthetic blend instead of a regular full synthetic, if I wanted to try something new.
#50
06-11-2009
whether it be true or not, i have been told and it is shown in some of my text books that a "normal" conventional motor oil molecule can be compared to the size of a basket ball, and a synthetic oil molecule can be compared to the size of a tennis ball.
if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
