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  #26  
Old 10-08-2016
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Problem is the oil pick up in the pan.
You can't slide the pan back and down far enough with bell housing attached.
You could try lifting the engine, but not sure it can come up far enough with trans attached
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  #27  
Old 10-08-2016
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So there is a baffle in the pan that the oil pick up tube runs in such a way that the pan simple doesn't drop straight down ?
The pan has to slide back towards the transmission in order for the pick up tube to clear the baffle ???
If this is the case, it looks like I may be unbolting the transmission.

What a way to design things and I thought British cars were bad.
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  #28  
Old 10-09-2016
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If you can drop pan straight down then there shouldn't be a problem, but under carriage usually prevents the straight down drop

In the "good old days" people fixed their own cars for the most part, so some thought went in to access, not so much any more.
But in fairness you were lucky to get 60,000 miles on an engine before work was needed on bottom end, 100k was a GREAT motor

Now a days 300k is not unusual, so better parts and materials for sure, and pulling a motor to work on it after 300k miles isn't that bad, at 15k per year that's 20 years intervals

Now SPARK PLUG PLACEMENT is another issue, lol
I have had to drill/cut holes in inner fenders to get to some of them, lol, 100k plugs my eye

Last edited by RonD; 10-09-2016 at 12:56 PM.
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  #29  
Old 10-09-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonD View Post
If you can drop pan straight down then there shouldn't be a problem, but under carriage usually prevents the straight down drop

In the "good old days" people fixed their own cars for the most part, so some thought went in to access, not so much any more.
But in fairness you were lucky to get 60,000 miles on an engine before work was needed on bottom end, 100k was a GREAT motor

Now a days 300k is not unusual, so better parts and materials for sure, and pulling a motor to work on it after 300k miles isn't that bad, at 15k per year that's 20 years intervals

Now SPARK PLUG PLACEMENT is another issue, lol
I have had to drill/cut holes in inner fenders to get to some of them, lol, 100k plugs my eye
I was looking at photos of the pump (its location as well) and the inside of the pan.
It looks like the baffle will clear the pickup if it was just moved ahead slightly.
I guess it depends upon just how much clearance I can create by lifting the engine.

The whole things apart, even the rad is out (it's being replaced) so there is lots of room.

Funny you should mention the old days.
One of the procedures for Rolls Royce was to "de-coke" the engine.
This involved removing the head(s) oil pan, crank sludge traps and pretty much anywhere where sludge would build up from the poor quality fuels and oils.

When the rod/piston is out I'll take some photos.
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  #30  
Old 10-10-2016
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Tried to drop the oil pan today and it's pretty much impossible to do with the engine bolted onto the trans.
The pan came down far enough where I could have removed the oil pump and I believe then the pan could be removed, but man, working upside down in a mirror and then having to assemble it back that way, forget it !
I could see a shiny mark on the crank where the piston skirt came in contact with it, so I have to fix it for sure.
Looks like it's easier to support the trans and lift the engine out, then vise versa.
May even take the whole bottom end apart and do it up, even if it doesn't need it.
There is lots of scale in the block from it sitting for 8 years and the only way to get rid of that is to remove the block and have it cleaned out.
I can't even get the drain plugs out, they're rusted in there.

I was hoping to get this done in week, but that's gone out the window.
I'll put my old B2200 back on the road so I can take my time.
"In for a penny, in for a pound" really applies here.

But I'll have a nice fresh engine when it's all done.

Last edited by Jeff R 1; 10-16-2016 at 05:55 PM.
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  #31  
Old 10-10-2016
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Wow. That is odd how that is crafted. Making getting it apart near impossible. It sounds like when done it will be new again. Good work.
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  #32  
Old 10-16-2016
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In the second photo you can see where the big crank weight is coming in contact with a protrusion on the oil pump _ not sure what's happening there _ probably where the ticking sound is coming from each time the weight comes in contact with it.
I thought it was coming from the wrist pin, but it isn't, although the pin and piston is damaged too, the pin doesn't move freely in the piston, it binds in different positions.



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  #33  
Old 10-16-2016
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Jeff
Ouch. That is not cool. That SeaFoam did all that. Looking for clean and getting that. Feel terrible for you. Pushing some good truck vibes your way.
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  #34  
Old 10-16-2016
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Any liquid poured into an engine will cause damage like that, it just happened to be Sea Foam, but in the end, the stuff did absolutely nothing to get rid of the carbon build up inside, it's more of a preventative thing then anything else and even then, I highly doubt it does much of anything.
Many swear by it though, but I will never use it again, best care for any engine is change your fluids and drive it long _ no short runs.

And just had a look at some oil pump photos, that shaft that's hitting the crank weight isn't supposed to be like that.
It's flush in the photo's over at Rock Auto.
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  #35  
Old 10-16-2016
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That thing popped up you say. Wow. Thats not good. Hoping real hard things can be saved.
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  #36  
Old 10-16-2016
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Just came back in from the garage now.
That thing that popped up is the end of the internal shaft that the idler gear in the oil pump rides on.
It's just pressed into the aluminum housing, I simply tapped it back into place.
I don't know how it worked it's way up in the first place, the press fit was pretty tight.
Really odd, I've never seen an oil pump do that before, but at any rate I will be replacing the oil pump.
I can't see that having any relation to the hydro-lock.

But bloody hell !
How can that shaft work it's way out like that _ if it was over heated at one point ???
It was a Ford part too...
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  #37  
Old 10-16-2016
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If that is caused by over heating. It had to of gotten mighty hot.
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  #38  
Old 10-16-2016
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I just don't have any other explanation.
Unless it was like that from day one, but I doubt it.
Someone was in that engine before me, the wrong head bolts were used and there was way to much silicon goober on the oil pan seal for it to be factory.

Probably the same idiot who mounted the synchronizer in the wrong position buggered around with the bottom and top end.
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  #39  
Old 10-16-2016
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You can do it.
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  #40  
Old 10-16-2016
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I'll have no problem rebuilding this engine, I've worked on some of the most complex engines ever devised man.
I think engineers get their "jollies" out of making things difficult to work on.

I'm not sure when Rolls Royce started doing this, but the crank pin journals are hollow.
I've been told this was to make the crank shaft lighter due to the very long stroke on their straight sixes.
Others say they are sludge traps, and that's what happened, they would fill with sludge.
The owner was expected to come in and have the dealer remove the caps and clean the sludge out.
There have been some cases where it would block the oil gallery in the crank _ you can imagine the mess _ bring a wheel barrel full of money to fix that !

With todays oils and fuels, it isn't a problem any more, but back then (50 years) it was.

Here's an exploded diagram of the crank dampener on an early 50's Rolls engine _ very over designed and complex. There's even a chapter on how to set it up using a fish scale _ of all things.

https://www.introcar.co.uk/lookbook/...t-damper-li186
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  #41  
Old 10-17-2016
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A fish scale??? I think that is the oddest tool I have ever heard of to work on a car. Interesting. Very happy to hear you have the skills to fix the motor. I would be out of luck so to say.
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  #42  
Old 10-24-2016
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Here are some more photos of the crank.
The clunking that was there when I bought the truck was being caused by the idle shaft in the oil pump striking the big end crank weight.
I never really thought much of it, the sound pretty much went away after the engine warmed up, but it's nice to know what was causing it.

I believe that the hydro lock problem was totally unrelated to the oil pump shaft problem.
I believe the shaft in the pump was like that from day one, it should not have been put into the engine from the start.
It's quite the manufacturing defect though; it has to be, I don't see how that shaft could have worked its way up like that all on its own.





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  #43  
Old 10-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New2Ford View Post
I read this entire post. The idea of sea foam makes me cringe. I've seen it used on you tube. Only recently. When I got my Ranger a few weeks or so ago. I started doing some of my own engine truck work. So I'm greener than grass.
The only thing that pops into my head. I don't know if this is even an option. Totally pulling the engine apart. Degreaseing cleaning everything. I mean I don't know if thats how things are done. There are rods or parts that are bent. I would if able replace those. Then put all the good stuff back in the engine. Like a total rebuild or something. I just think trying to find areas to fix might miss others. If you want to laugh at me thats fine. I just come wanting to help. I feel for you Jeff.

I still wonder to this day why ANYONE would pour that **** in the engine... really. I've never once had carbon build up or all these magical things that this stuff claims to solve. I cringe when I hear people pouring it in their oil, gas...etc. I've never had a gummed up engine. Pretty much getting your engine up to temp and good scheduled oil changes is what is needed, not some magic snake oil in a bottle.

But we'll continue to see people using it.

Prior to doing the seafoam was everything fine?

-Nigel
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  #44  
Old 10-26-2016
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When I first purchased my ranger, I used the spray version made to be sucked in through the throttle. THAT is effective. The idle immediately smoothed out, ran like a completely different truck after that. I'm not entirely sure how effective the pour-able version is, like what was used here.

I believe it's a good product, myself. Mine sat during most of the year, for several years, only driven during the winter. God only knows how often the oil was changed. In my case, there was junk to be cleaned, therefor a difference was made. Although I don't believe in pouring anything other than oil in the crank case, tranny, wherever people use this stuff. Always smelled like trouble waiting to happen; case in point I suppose. Accidents happen though.

Different strokes for different folks, though. You don't care for it, and I respect that.
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  #45  
Old 10-26-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewShockerGuy View Post
I still wonder to this day why ANYONE would pour that **** in the engine... really. I've never once had carbon build up or all these magical things that this stuff claims to solve. I cringe when I hear people pouring it in their oil, gas...etc. I've never had a gummed up engine. Pretty much getting your engine up to temp and good scheduled oil changes is what is needed, not some magic snake oil in a bottle.

But we'll continue to see people using it.

Prior to doing the seafoam was everything fine?

-Nigel
Prior to the Sea Foam, I knew the engine wasn't totally healthy, it pinged, had not allot of power (even for a 3 litre) and there was the knock that I mentioned earlier.
The knocking was the crank weight banging into the oil pump idler shaft, it was very bad on cold start up until enough oil splashed in that area, then it was fairly quiet.

The pinging was attributed to the synchroniser in there the wrong way, it was more then 90 degrees out, dirty MAF sensor, dirty sensor connections, dirty grounds etc,

It was carboned up though, there was about a millimetre of build up on the pistons and the intake manifold was black on the inside.
The lifters were the worst, the return spring inside of them was not able to operate the internals because they were so "good" up.
And because of that the valves were in bad shape.

In the end, I'm not too sorry this happened, I can address the oil pump problem and clean the engine up.
I'll be getting new pistons and going over sized to keep the engine in spec.
Pistons are inexpensive at only 25 bucks each and the rod that was damaged, I can get used one or new, they're inexpensive as well.

It was carboned up because it was a city truck and the oil was not changed regularly and that's key.
I agree with you about maintenance, but others still like to use Sea Foam as a preventative measure.
It's not the Sea Foam's fault that caused the hydro lock, but in the end it did nothing to remove any carbon deposits or clean up the stuck lifters.

My old Bentley was rebuilt a number of years ago now and when I drive it, it gets driven hard (no short runs).
The inside is as clean as the day I put it together and all I do is change the fluids.
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