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  #26  
Old 09-04-2016
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Alright, I will. I'll see if I can't rig something up tomorrow.

EDIT: Looked on FOrscan. It does not allow me to see the fuel injector duration, but I can see long and short term fuel trims. Would this suffice?

Last edited by TheArcticWolf1911; 09-04-2016 at 09:48 PM.
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  #27  
Old 09-05-2016
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what you need to save is the fuel injector firing duration between 87 octane with ethanol and 91 octane fuel without ethanol fuels

the video i watched regarding several mechanics was !!

they noticed that the engine computer was firing the injectors longer while the engine using 87 octane fuel with ethanol , than if the engine was using 91 octane fuel without ethanol

i do not believe you are leaking fuel any where .

i do believe that the engine computer is sniffing excess oxygen in the exhaust , the computer thinks the engine running lean and firing the injectors longer to compensate ( which they should not be )

the by product of combusted ethanol is oxygen

even owners of honda / toyota / kia / hyundai / etc have noticed serious degraded fuel economy from their vehicles ( any vehicle older than 2006 model years )
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  #28  
Old 09-05-2016
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Well unfortunately Forscan doesn't tell me how long the fuel injectors fire for. Even so, given my 3.0 is a flex fuel, shouldn't the ethanol make no difference?

Even so, i've decided to forgo trying 91 octane given it's current price. Instead, I'm opting simply to shell out for some copper plugs and new wires. Even if the plugs aren't my issue, they can still be used until they need to be replaced again and then I can stuff my platinums back in at that time.

Oddly enough, my manual recommends aswf-32pp for replacement plugs, which is a double platinum plug.
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  #29  
Old 09-05-2016
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today`s fuel blends are not the same as back then ,

new additives , stronger ethanol , cleaner fuels will affect fuel economy in older vehicles

you should try 91 octane to see if there is a mileage difference

91 octane fuel is all i burn in my engine ,
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  #30  
Old 09-05-2016
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I might later on, but for now I can't justify the price in doing so, given my budget. Tomorrow I'm going to order plugs and wires and see how that fares, first
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Old 09-06-2016
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Fuel Trims are the same data as injector Pulse Widths, open time.

So they will suffice.

Computer sets a 0 short term fuel trim based on MAF sensor data, this 0 is constantly changing based on air flowing thru the MAF at any given RPM, so it is a "floating 0".

The 0 represents the computers calculated 14.7 to 1 air:fuel ratio.
If O2 sensor on that Bank(V6 or V8 engine) shows too much oxygen(lean) then computer will open injectors on that Bank longer, +1 Fuel Trim .
If too little oxygen(rich), then computer closes injectors sooner, -1 fuel trim, so calculated pulse width(0) is made longer or shorter to correct oxygen levels in exhaust.

Generally Short Term Fuel Trims(STFT) stay in the +1 to +8 range on older engines, -5 to +5 would of course be perfect, but never happens.
When idling you should always see +5 or higher, idle needs to be richer, and of course when engine is cold mix has to be rich.

Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT) is used by the computer to offset fuel trims as engine gets older, fuel system has less pressure, lower compression, small vacuum leaks, ect.......things just starts to wear out.
So instead of learning the changes in an engine every time it starts the LTFT is used to save these changes and computer can correct 0 fuel trim for engines age.
Also on cold starts before O2 sensors work the computer can run the engine better if it has LTFT to "look at".

When STFT gets far enough away from 0, i.e. -18 or +18 then computer will set a code for rich or lean, same for LTFT, if it gets into the -20s/+20s computer will also set a code for that.
When you accelerate the STFT can go very high into the + range, that doesn't set a code because it is temporary, STFT or LTFT have to be consistently low or high to set a code


10MPG is over a 33% drop in MPG, I doubt spark could be the problem, usually 1 or 2 MPG difference with older spark plugs.

How does it roll in Neutral?
level ground, get moving slowly then shift into Neutral see if anything is dragging and slowing you down.
Outside of a neighbor kid with a siphon hose your drop in MPG just doesn't make sense without a fuel leak, assuming spark plug tips look good so gas is not being burned

Last edited by RonD; 09-06-2016 at 10:56 AM.
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  #32  
Old 09-06-2016
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The engine is flat cold at the moment, so I'll gather that data. Last night I placed an order for plugs and wires, and even if the diagnosis is wrong, the plugs themselves can still be used so I effectively lose nothing by jumping the gun on plugs. Also gives me a little first hand comparison between copper and platinum in something I'm familiar with.

Lol @ the siphon; and I would consider that, but my truck is in the garage 99.99999% of the time, so he'd have to break in to do that.

I'll check the rolling resistance as well.
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  #33  
Old 09-06-2016
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To start with, it takes about 40 seconds to a minute to coast to almost stopped from 25 miles an hour in neutral. There's no feeling of drag at all.

city1 is the data from a cold start to operating temperature plus a little more in city driving. I've also included speed, engine load, coolant temperature, and engine RPM data amongst some other items so it's relevant what the engine is doing. I'm burning 87 octane gas with no fuel additives. My tires are aired to 36 PSI, and I'm taking care to ease into the pedal as much as I can, hoping that will make a difference in my MPG.

In highway1 I take off from a deadstop on the highway and bring the ranger up to highway speeds of 55/60 miles per hour. Again, 87 octane with no additives. At this point, everything is warm.


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  #34  
Old 09-06-2016
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your engine coolant temperature sensor is failing

the temperature hardly even moves

it should be around 197 to 204 degrees fahrenheit .

the computer thinks the engine is still warming up . but not quite there yet

Last edited by cheese_man; 09-06-2016 at 04:58 PM.
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  #35  
Old 09-06-2016
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what type of coolant is in the engine

the 2nd video shows the engine only 190 degrees for a second then dropping to 188 degrees

it should be around 197 to 204 degrees if the thermostat is working properly , which i do not think it is , either that or the coolant temperature sensor is malfunctioning

the engine is not reaching normal operating temperature
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  #36  
Old 09-06-2016
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It's the green colored coolant. It's Peak brand at a 50/50 ratio.

I'll see about looking at the parts.
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Old 09-06-2016
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ah yes the green coolant laced with calcium ( salt )

the coolant temperature sensor is probably gummed up with calcium deposits

my advice is to also replace the thermostat with the fail safe one

( mazda mandated the installation of the fail safe therrnostats in the b-series pickups )

you will need to do complete cooling system flush before you install the sensor and thernostat
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  #38  
Old 09-06-2016
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I'll take a look and see what I've got. Looks like I have a project for tomorrow.


EDIT: Just occured to me. I have a temperature switch (aftermarket) in my upper radiator hose. On at 200, off at 185. It's a rudimentary test, but that at least gives me a place to start.

Last edited by TheArcticWolf1911; 09-06-2016 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 09-06-2016
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if the engine`s and heater core`s coolant passages are nearly gummed up with calcium deposits

my advice is to let a qualified radiator repair place do the flushing .

calcium deposits require a caustic solution to dissolve properly

( that garden hose kit does not work worth a C**P )

you need a caustic solution and hot water as well as compressed air to properly flush out that old coolant

and i mean heater core as well , cause i hate to say it , BUT winter season is not far off

better to have it done now tha in the dead of winter when you really need in cab heat and you are getting very little heat
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  #40  
Old 09-06-2016
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I believe the stuff is oxalic acid _ it comes in a crystal form.
We used the stuff to get stains out of wood when we stripped furniture.
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  #41  
Old 09-06-2016
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any good radiator shop should have a pressurized flush machine

i could be wrong but i do not think it is the same caustic solution

probably the same caustic as we use in the brewery to clean all of the pipes and hoses
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  #42  
Old 09-06-2016
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When I flushed it all out (three bottles of flush product and water) all I got was brown stuff. It cools efficiently and I get heat that will cook a turkey.

Just 20 minutes ago, I determined which sensor is for the ECU and removed it, and didn't find anything crusty or the like. Even so, I cleaned the sensor tip and reinstalled it, also cleaning the connectors and the like. I see no evidence of anything being gummed up.

I believe at this point it is my thermostat. That switch I have on the upper radiator hose never came on, which leads me to believe the thermostat is opening too soon. After the engine is cold and no pressure is there, I'm going to remove the thermostat and look at the temp stamped on it. I'll likely do that tomorrow, though.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2016
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I just read somewhere that has been used.
I think over at the Jag forums.
In the old days when rads were made of copper and brass, you could use hydrochloric acid.
I've done that in the past _ with the rad removed of course.
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArcticWolf1911 View Post
When I flushed it all out (three bottles of flush product and water) all I got was brown stuff. It cools efficiently and I get heat that will cook a turkey.

Just 20 minutes ago, I determined which sensor is for the ECU and removed it, and didn't find anything crusty or the like. Even so, I cleaned the sensor tip and reinstalled it, also cleaning the connectors and the like. I see no evidence of anything being gummed up.

I believe at this point it is my thermostat. That switch I have on the upper radiator hose never came on, which leads me to believe the thermostat is opening too soon. After the engine is cold and no pressure is there, I'm going to remove the thermostat and look at the temp stamped on it. I'll likely do that tomorrow, though.
When you get your new one, put it on the stove with some water.
Bring it up to a good simmer (just before boiling ) and make sure it opens.
I went though 5 Gates thermostats once before I got a good one.
Obviously a bad run.


It doesn't sound like your cooling system is gummed up though.
When the truck is good and hot, crawl under the front bumper and move you hand around on the surface of the rad, it should feel warm all over _ no cold spots.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2016
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I'll do that tomorrow when I run to the auto parts store for a thermostat gasket. Don't want to ruin what I have and not be left with something to replace it with. That would make for a sucky day.
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  #46  
Old 09-07-2016
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I don't see anything in the OBD data that would show 10mpg issue
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  #47  
Old 09-07-2016
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Well, I replaced the tstat with a 192 and now the engine runs between 188 and 192. When I replace the clutch fan, it'll run hotter yet, as the switch is designed to turn on at 200 and off at 195. So for the stock system, as far as cooling is concerned, I'll leave it where it is.

Copper spark plugs and wires are on their way, so I'll throw those in when they get here.

I did notice that the REF hose for the DPFE sensor has a spit in the top. Suppose that wouldn't affect anything, would it?
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  #48  
Old 09-07-2016
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No on the REF hose.
If there was a leak in that hose, you would get a code for that and smell exhaust fumes under the hood.
It would also probably "ping" as that is part of the EGR system, but would not cause bad fuel millage, or at least it shouldn't.


Are you still running the metal DPFE sensor ?
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  #49  
Old 09-07-2016
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Yep, metal sensor right at the top of the engine. The original one went bad, but I found a good one at a salvage yard.
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  #50  
Old 09-07-2016
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What happens to the metal ones is that water from the exhaust enters the devise, and this can't be helped.
The water eventually corrodes the metal past the internal seals and shorts out the circuit board inside, that's why the new ones are made of plastic.
The sensors inside are also solid state on the new ones.
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