01RangerEdge build thread - Page 22 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Project Logs For detailed builds specific to the Ford Ranger, one thread per vehicle please.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #526  
Old 06-22-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Alright, this is starting to get on my nerves.

Steering shaft: We added a 2nd carrier bearing to support the shaft going through the firewall. That thing is rock solid. Still didn't fix the play in the steering, but the shaft isn't shaking anymore. So that's good



Steering box. We thought maybe the play was coming from the box, worked ok on the Jeep, so why not on my truck? We replaced it since the old one had a leak. No change.

So, we're scratching our heads. I took some better pictures of the steering to give you guys an idea of what the angles look like. I didn't write down the exact measurements, but it's less than 3 degrees difference.

I can't speak highly of myself, but my friend who helped make this possible has a ton of experience with axle swaps. He's done over a dozen swaps and never had a steering issue like this. His friend came over who also builds crawlers and he can't figure it out either.

On a nice flat road, it drives like a dream. You hit a hard bump at highway speeds and the truck loses its damn mind. You really have to be watch it, it pulls hard and the play in the steering is way more than normal. It still likes to wander.

Power steering pump? I don't think so, turning the truck off and manual steering it has no effect.

I'm taking any suggestion at this point. Take a look at these pics and let me know what you think.

One thing he may try tomorrow is taking some of the bend out of the track bar to get it closer to parallel, maybe even raising it up one bolt hole too. He may also take it to a specialty alignment shop where a few of his friends work to see what they think.


Attached Thumbnails
01RangerEdge build thread-20150622_165255_zpsa3sp4fyy.jpg   01RangerEdge build thread-20150622_211103_zps2ue6fwfa.jpg   01RangerEdge build thread-20150622_211427_zpsovypyive.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #527  
Old 06-23-2015
Scrambler82's Avatar
Old Guy Userů ltr

iTrader: (12)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,627
It's called the Death Wobble !

Usually it is a steering stabilizer, track bar problem or alignment.

Try the stablizer on the tie rod instead of the steering box Rod.

You know it from the pictures but keep the angles of the steering box rod and the track bar as similar as possible.

Next would be alignment... the positioning of the ball joints, camber or caster, can never remember which is which. If they are straight up not good and too far in either direction is no good. Find the required degree of offset and adjust it in.

The old Broncos were a nightmare With the same problem. An alignment job from a shop that handled 4x's might helped but they need experience in alignment of the ball joints.

These are just ideas, thinking out loud so to speak.
Hope you get it straightened away, sucks with all the work and then this thing jumps out at ya.
Reply With Quote
  #528  
Old 06-23-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
It's an ongoing process that's for sure.

Let's start with your caster and toe settings. Do you know what they are? The toe and caster can cause what the jeep guys call flighty steering if they are off just a tad. Any problems with the steering wheel returning to center on it's own?

Inevitably though I think you're going to have to do something about the track bar. Taking some bend out of the track bar or moving up to the next hole is not going to help. Your angle relationship between the drag link and track bar were better before you did the high steer. Now I think you have two choices, A: You bring the drag link back down to where it used to be or B: You raise the axle side of the track bar mount. The point from A to B on the drag link and track bar have to be at the same angle. It doesn't matter how you bend the track bar because in the end the angle from point A to B remains the same.

If you take the coils out and lift the axle up and down with a jack you'll see how the angles of the drag link and track bar changes at different rates, which in turn causes the truck to steer. To eliminate that ideally you need the angle from point A to B on the drag link and track bar to be exactly the same. The difference in length between the two also contributes to the equation.
Reply With Quote
  #529  
Old 06-23-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Less than 3 degrees difference can cause all of this?
Reply With Quote
  #530  
Old 06-23-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Going back to y-link can't make things better. Even with my current problems, it still drives a lot better than the y-link
Reply With Quote
  #531  
Old 06-23-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
The angles between the drag link and track bar with the y-link are a lot farther apart than they are now

Reply With Quote
  #532  
Old 06-23-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
No, those angles are much better. You can't think about the bend in the track bar. Pretend it's straight when you think about it. I wouldn't go back to the y link either though, which means you need to bring your track bar mount up.

What about the caster and toe?
Reply With Quote
  #533  
Old 06-23-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorsEDGE View Post
No, those angles are much better. You can't think about the bend in the track bar. Pretend it's straight when you think about it. I wouldn't go back to the y link either though, which means you need to bring your track bar mount up.

What about the caster and toe?
Let me preface by saying I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is just confusing me

I'm not looking at the bend in the bar, we measured the bar angles at the mounts and it's less than 3 degrees.

The drag link on the y-link was much steeper, that angle difference would have been greater for sure.

EDIT: I forgot about your alignment question. I don't remember what the numbers were (they didn't give me the sheet) but they said everything was "in spec"

The plan is to get it to a specialty alignment shop (hopefully today) and have them check it.
Reply With Quote
  #534  
Old 06-23-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01RangerEdge View Post
Let me preface by saying I'm not trying to be argumentative. This is just confusing me

I'm not looking at the bend in the bar, we measured the bar angles at the mounts and it's less than 3 degrees.

The drag link on the y-link was much steeper, that angle difference would have been greater for sure.

EDIT: I forgot about your alignment question. I don't remember what the numbers were (they didn't give me the sheet) but they said everything was "in spec"

The plan is to get it to a specialty alignment shop (hopefully today) and have them check it.
Let me clarify, the angle of the drag link before was not better. The angle of the drag link in relationship to the track bar was better. And yeah The difference of angles in those two links currently is enough to cause big issues. 3 degrees (if that's the difference of the angles) is a huge amount when you're talking about suspension geometry and the forces at play at 70 mph. That's not to say there isn't anything else wrong though! All your bushings, and rod ends are new right?

Caster and Toe are going to be very important in how it steers as well, and if the alignment tech aligned it to factory Ranger specs it's not going to be right. Like you mentioned you'll need to find someone used to aligning modified suspensions. As I've found out with mine recently 1/8th of an inch of incorrect toe can make it steer funny, and that's really hard to measure without special equipment.

You never said if the return to center was good, because that's good indicator if you have the caster in the ballpark or not.

Last edited by RazorsEDGE; 06-23-2015 at 04:47 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #535  
Old 06-23-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
Check this out


These are your links normally. Notice how the ends of both links hit the blue lines.


This is what they'll look like if you hit a bump that would compress your suspension to the point that the drag link became flat. Notice now that neither one hits the blue line directly, but the track bar is much farther away from it than the drag link.


With that in mind, when your suspension compresses to that point the track bar will cause your axle to be pushed towards the passenger side of the vehicle that amount. Since the drag link doesn't extend towards the passenger side as much as the track bar it will cause your tires to be forcibly steered to the left, and as the suspension recovers from the bump the action is undone just as fast. That'll cause some pretty scary steering over which you really have no control. Since this is all scaled down in an image just imagine what that'll look like in fullsize, and the more the suspension is compressed (or drooped) the bigger the difference becomes.

Also, based on the angles of those two lines Visio gives me an angle of 5.7* for the drag link and 18.49* for the track bar which is a difference of just under 13*. That's a big difference! Of course since that's not a real life measurement I guess we have to take it with a grain of salt.

Last edited by RazorsEDGE; 06-23-2015 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #536  
Old 06-23-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Damn man. That makes a lot more sense.

You described exactly what it feels like when I hit a bump. It doesn't matter how hard I'm holding the wheel. It's going to the left.
Reply With Quote
  #537  
Old 06-23-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
Hopefully it will help you get it steering better!
Reply With Quote
  #538  
Old 06-23-2015
00GreenRanger's Avatar
Level III Supporter
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: North Bend, WA
Posts: 1,236
So it looks like the drag link and track bar need to be at the same angle? That does make a lot of sense. Hope you get it all squared away, Justin.
Reply With Quote
  #539  
Old 06-28-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
So I think we're 90% of the way there. I test drove it tonight and it was a night and day difference. Don't mind all the cosmetic ugliness, I wanted to grab a few pics to give you guys an idea of what changed. From the front, you can't even see the trac bar.

In short, the trac bar. Made a new bar with new mounts and it works awesome.

It seems the body roll is the only thing I'm fighting, with the coils being so light and the height it sits at, it seems a sway bar would get the truck back to driving like normal.

Thoughts? Any suggestions on a sway bar?


Attached Thumbnails
01RangerEdge build thread-20150628_193935_zpsolu4ml1x.jpg   01RangerEdge build thread-20150628_193954_zpsopkrjedk.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #540  
Old 06-28-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
Looks much better! Should perform better too!

The body roll was horrible on mine with coils and no sway. It's a necessity IMO. The Currie anti-rock is a great sway bar, but it's not cheap. They offer quite a few different size options though which makes it pretty easy to get it to fit your application. I can't remember the bar length on mine but it's the 16.5" bent arms and 14" links. I'm also using the weld on synergy sway bar relocation brackets. The hardest part is to get it to clear the pitman arm while turning and also keeping the tires from hitting the links while turning, for that reason I'm running wheel spacers. Yours should have a little more room to work with since your steering box is inside the frame.

There may be other universal sways out there but I don't know what they are. One of the best things about the anti-rock is that it doesn't have to be disconnected for offroad use.

Last edited by RazorsEDGE; 06-28-2015 at 10:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #541  
Old 07-20-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Sway bar is almost ready to put on, but I couldn't help but jump on the opportunity to get Pedros' modded tails from Shane. He even threw in the L1224R's


Attached Thumbnails
01RangerEdge build thread-20150720_174610_zpszrit5zjc.jpg   01RangerEdge build thread-20150720_174621_zpssjpgy4hp.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #542  
Old 07-20-2015
RazorsEDGE's Avatar
There's no lifeguard in the gene pool
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 7,409
Sweet. What Sway did you go with? Should look nice with those tails.
Reply With Quote
  #543  
Old 07-20-2015
Dewey's Avatar
REAL MEN USE PAINT
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Arcadia, Fl
Posts: 1,844
01RangerEdge build thread

I'm liking those tails
Reply With Quote
  #544  
Old 07-20-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by RazorsEDGE View Post
Sweet. What Sway did you go with? Should look nice with those tails.
Speedway Engineering, my buddy has used them on a few other trucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey View Post
I'm liking those tails
Me too, I've been wanting to do my own set, but I couldn't let these tails go up for sale so some random dude could get them lol
Reply With Quote
  #545  
Old 07-20-2015
99offroadrngr's Avatar
TOYOTA
iTrader: (37)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 11,719
Yessss they live on!
Reply With Quote
  #546  
Old 07-29-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
I want to be cool too

Attached Thumbnails
01RangerEdge build thread-20150729_164239_zpswy0bw5pt.jpg  
Reply With Quote
  #547  
Old 07-29-2015
BACKCOUNTRYEDGE02's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Laramie, WY
Posts: 368
I can't be cool and unique long enough they are pretty nice. It'll be awhile before I put mine on. I need a cheap fleetside bed with tailgate. Now that my wife is pregnant I can't just buy whatever.
They will look pretty nice on your truck, where you putting them
Reply With Quote
  #548  
Old 07-29-2015
bravetitan24's Avatar
Strokin'
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Haughton, LA
Posts: 2,052
I gotta get some of those!
Reply With Quote
  #549  
Old 07-29-2015
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

Thread Starter
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Posts: 7,587
Quote:
Originally Posted by BACKCOUNTRYEDGE02 View Post
I can't be cool and unique long enough they are pretty nice. It'll be awhile before I put mine on. I need a cheap fleetside bed with tailgate. Now that my wife is pregnant I can't just buy whatever.
They will look pretty nice on your truck, where you putting them
Mine won't be on for a while either. I'm thinking of replacing my fender emblems with these.

Once I do the body work of filling the holes and whatnot

Quote:
Originally Posted by bravetitan24 View Post
I gotta get some of those!
They're bigger than I thought (bigger than 06+) and stainless steel, pricey though being shipped out of Thailand
Reply With Quote
  #550  
Old 07-29-2015
BACKCOUNTRYEDGE02's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Laramie, WY
Posts: 368
Mines goin on the tailgate where the ford emblem is opposite my 4x4 since I already have svt fender vents. Just need some svt wheel caps to round it out. I spent $44 on mine did you have shipping?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
After Build "build" thread... ShoNuff82 Project Logs 268 08-18-2015 07:47 PM
Redranger4.0's Motorcycle Build thread. redranger4.0 Project Logs 115 06-16-2009 03:09 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:26 PM.