Panhard setup.
#1
10-15-2008
Unregistered User
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Panhard setup.
I posted some pics in the pictures thread, figured I would put it all together here.
A big problem with a lot of cars/trucks being built for the street/strip is keeping the wheels under the vehicle. Have you ever seen a burnout mark on a road and it looks all squiggly like an ' S '? Its due to the weight and movement above the tires not distributing properly. This causes uneven traction and one tire grabbing harder then the other. Keeping the weight ( body ) solid above both tires helps a lot. Sway bars are great, but they are more for roll then keeping things centered.
A lot of 4x4 trucks use a panhard type of setup but I believe they might call it something different ( draglink? ). My terms are limited on offroad entities as I really haven't gone Haywire like Beard and others have in their quests for ultimate lifts and such. I like my truck on the ground and launching quick.
The theory is the same in both applications.
Frame mount.
One side of the bar needs to be tied to the frame in some way and the other to the axle. I put a plate on the frame here ( over the winter ) and reenforced it recently.
Frame bracket :
This is where one end of the bar will mount.
Axle bracket :
Mount welded to the axle. Not seen ion the picture are the 2 right-triangle gussets I added for strength.
I added a 3/4th's inch cross brace. I will add one across the top when I have someone here to help take the bed off so I can get in with the welder.
This is the Bar itself. Its adjustable in length by 5 inches. Has grease fittings on both ends .
Assembled but still needing that top ' cross-brace '
Even without the brace on top, I decided to go launch on it. The results were AWESOME. Launched perfectly straight!
Once the top brace is on and I have it all bracketed in, I plan on doing some drifting to see if it helps in slides or negates it. I think it will help as it will take the dampening of lateral movement from the leaf springs out of the equation as the leafs no longer have any side-to-side movement at all, just vertical.
I now should have the time to take apart the front end , add in ' Mother ' and put the coil setup in.
Lookin for 10's with this truck. Probably in the spring.
A big problem with a lot of cars/trucks being built for the street/strip is keeping the wheels under the vehicle. Have you ever seen a burnout mark on a road and it looks all squiggly like an ' S '? Its due to the weight and movement above the tires not distributing properly. This causes uneven traction and one tire grabbing harder then the other. Keeping the weight ( body ) solid above both tires helps a lot. Sway bars are great, but they are more for roll then keeping things centered.
A lot of 4x4 trucks use a panhard type of setup but I believe they might call it something different ( draglink? ). My terms are limited on offroad entities as I really haven't gone Haywire like Beard and others have in their quests for ultimate lifts and such. I like my truck on the ground and launching quick.
The theory is the same in both applications.
Frame mount.
One side of the bar needs to be tied to the frame in some way and the other to the axle. I put a plate on the frame here ( over the winter ) and reenforced it recently.
Frame bracket :
This is where one end of the bar will mount.
Axle bracket :
Mount welded to the axle. Not seen ion the picture are the 2 right-triangle gussets I added for strength.
I added a 3/4th's inch cross brace. I will add one across the top when I have someone here to help take the bed off so I can get in with the welder.
This is the Bar itself. Its adjustable in length by 5 inches. Has grease fittings on both ends .
Assembled but still needing that top ' cross-brace '
Even without the brace on top, I decided to go launch on it. The results were AWESOME. Launched perfectly straight!
Once the top brace is on and I have it all bracketed in, I plan on doing some drifting to see if it helps in slides or negates it. I think it will help as it will take the dampening of lateral movement from the leaf springs out of the equation as the leafs no longer have any side-to-side movement at all, just vertical.
I now should have the time to take apart the front end , add in ' Mother ' and put the coil setup in.
Lookin for 10's with this truck. Probably in the spring.
#7
10-15-2008
10s? Damn D., your truck must just fly. Want the hell you pushing right now down the 1/4, and what is going to push you the 10s range?
Bar looks like a damn good idea.... but I'm kind of curious why you used the angle iron to lower it to make it level with the axle? Wouldn't simply making a mount near the frame rail do the same functional thing, and have a lot less likely hood of breaking? I'm mean the link wouldn't be parallel like yours, but at the same time, you wouldn't have pressure on a big piece of angle like yours? Not saying yours will break as it looks beefy as hell, just curious if there was logic behind it is all.
Bar looks like a damn good idea.... but I'm kind of curious why you used the angle iron to lower it to make it level with the axle? Wouldn't simply making a mount near the frame rail do the same functional thing, and have a lot less likely hood of breaking? I'm mean the link wouldn't be parallel like yours, but at the same time, you wouldn't have pressure on a big piece of angle like yours? Not saying yours will break as it looks beefy as hell, just curious if there was logic behind it is all.
#9
10-15-2008
I'll help ya out here, the drag link is for steering on real suspension setups 
it goes from the pitman arm down to the tie-rod or passenger side knuckle
your looking for "track bar" Its used to locate the axle laterally when your running a 3 link or non-triangulated 4-link. I've seen it used before with leaf springs on off road trucks(mainly monstrous show trucks) but without it you get more travel
, and it should be as close as you can get it to the same angle and length as the drag link.
Anyways, keep it comin', nice work man.
it goes from the pitman arm down to the tie-rod or passenger side knuckleyour looking for "track bar" Its used to locate the axle laterally when your running a 3 link or non-triangulated 4-link. I've seen it used before with leaf springs on off road trucks(mainly monstrous show trucks) but without it you get more travel
, and it should be as close as you can get it to the same angle and length as the drag link.Anyways, keep it comin', nice work man.
Last edited by 99ranger4x4; 10-15-2008 at 10:10 PM.
#10
10-15-2008
10s? Damn D., your truck must just fly. Want the hell you pushing right now down the 1/4, and what is going to push you the 10s range?
Bar looks like a damn good idea.... but I'm kind of curious why you used the angle iron to lower it to make it level with the axle? Wouldn't simply making a mount near the frame rail do the same functional thing, and have a lot less likely hood of breaking? I'm mean the link wouldn't be parallel like yours, but at the same time, you wouldn't have pressure on a big piece of angle like yours? Not saying yours will break as it looks beefy as hell, just curious if there was logic behind it is all.
Bar looks like a damn good idea.... but I'm kind of curious why you used the angle iron to lower it to make it level with the axle? Wouldn't simply making a mount near the frame rail do the same functional thing, and have a lot less likely hood of breaking? I'm mean the link wouldn't be parallel like yours, but at the same time, you wouldn't have pressure on a big piece of angle like yours? Not saying yours will break as it looks beefy as hell, just curious if there was logic behind it is all.
the closer to level it is the better it functions(correct?), if thats what you mean.
#12
10-15-2008
Unregistered User
Posts: n/a
Whats going to push it? A different motor.
Bar looks like a damn good idea.... but I'm kind of curious why you used the angle iron to lower it to make it level with the axle? Wouldn't simply making a mount near the frame rail do the same functional thing, and have a lot less likely hood of breaking? I'm mean the link wouldn't be parallel like yours, but at the same time, you wouldn't have pressure on a big piece of angle like yours?
It rained tonight so.. I have to see how dry it is tomorrow so I can finish welding in the bracing and such.
Not saying yours will break as it looks beefy as hell, just curious if there was logic behind it is all.
Last edited by D.; 10-16-2008 at 04:27 AM.
#13
10-15-2008
Unregistered User
Posts: n/a
I'll help ya out here, the drag link is for steering on real suspension setups it goes from the pitman arm down to the tie-rod or passenger side knuckle
your looking for "track bar" Its used to locate the axle laterally when your running a 3 link or non-triangulated 4-link. I've seen it used before with leaf springs on off road trucks(mainly monstrous show trucks) but without it you get more travel, and it should be as close as you can get it to the same angle and length as the drag link.
Anyways, keep it comin', nice work man.
it goes from the pitman arm down to the tie-rod or passenger side knuckleyour looking for "track bar" Its used to locate the axle laterally when your running a 3 link or non-triangulated 4-link. I've seen it used before with leaf springs on off road trucks(mainly monstrous show trucks) but without it you get more travel
, and it should be as close as you can get it to the same angle and length as the drag link.Anyways, keep it comin', nice work man.
#15
10-16-2008
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#16
10-16-2008
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1000-1500$ to buy a kit that wasn't designed for a ranger and modify it to fit. Worry about off-center balancing, more moving parts, more complexity, finding room to fit all those ' extra parts '.. OR.. spend less then 100$ of my own cash ( really.. all of about 25$ ) and make my own setup thats just as effective for what I want to do and have the glorious aspect of saying ' I made my own '. Where is that exhaust system going to run again? I cut my tailpipes off to make room for welding on mine. I need to re-make them to clear a whole lot better. With a Watts-link.. forget it! You have a high perch to clear!
I'll take the later. Simplicity and Ease to fabricate.
The gossip about a watts-link -->
"Unlike a panhard bar system that constrain the axle motion to an arc during jounce and rebound, the watts link allows the axle to move in a true vertical plane. The end result is a more tuneable and predictable vehicle on all road and track surfaces."
A watts-link does NOT allow for individual wheel travel unlike a panhard setup. I still drive over curbs and rough roads. I have a truck. With a wattslink, when one tire goes up, the other does not. when one tire is pushed in laterally to the leaf, the other is pulled upon.. If the tire being pulled on has the grip ( as the other tire is up ), what happens to all your torque?
A panhard uses 2 pivoting points, A watts-link has 1 that is centered.
I believe I would bust a watts-link on the streets.
I'll take the later. Simplicity and Ease to fabricate.
The gossip about a watts-link -->
"Unlike a panhard bar system that constrain the axle motion to an arc during jounce and rebound, the watts link allows the axle to move in a true vertical plane. The end result is a more tuneable and predictable vehicle on all road and track surfaces."
A watts-link does NOT allow for individual wheel travel unlike a panhard setup. I still drive over curbs and rough roads. I have a truck. With a wattslink, when one tire goes up, the other does not. when one tire is pushed in laterally to the leaf, the other is pulled upon.. If the tire being pulled on has the grip ( as the other tire is up ), what happens to all your torque?
A panhard uses 2 pivoting points, A watts-link has 1 that is centered.
I believe I would bust a watts-link on the streets.
#17
10-16-2008
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Maybe I don't understand, which is probably the case, but if the entire axle wants to move up or down, wouldn't that bar pull it the the passenger side? If only one side goes down, it will pivot, and it will be fine, but it's a solid bar, it has a radius.
Maybe that's the point? You don't want it to move? Would that work? I'm going to have to do some research on this now, I hate it when I don't know how things work.
Maybe that's the point? You don't want it to move? Would that work? I'm going to have to do some research on this now, I hate it when I don't know how things work.
#18
10-16-2008
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#19
10-16-2008
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If the axle moves below that load to either the left or right, the weight distribution across the tires is now unbalanced. One tire will carry a lighter load.
A factor as well, being on leaf springs that have bushings and shackles.. Once that load moves from its original position, it will then have to move back. This ' swaying ' motion will then change the load to the other side of the vehicle. The motion will continue until something stops it.
Wide tires ( I run a 255 series with soft compound/silica ) will help and give a good contact surface. If the weight isn't distributed properly, having all that surface will HELP, but still not have the full effect.
Theres a term for it.. ( Damn.. I forgot what it was! ) Offhand I can't remember what it is. Chris ( Gumby ) or Rich might know what its called.
#20
10-16-2008
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#21
10-16-2008
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#22
10-16-2008
Looks like a nice setup. Also thank you for explain how it works/comparison to Watts.
Is there a minimum length the Panhard Bar has to be to work properly/efficiently?
Does this also work with AOL (Axle over leaf [fliped axle]) setups?
Is it recommended that you run it with traction bars? I'm not sure if axle twist (without traction bars) would hurt the panhard setup or not . . .
Also, do you have a pinion seal leak or is that just me?
Thanks again, your truck gets better by the post!
Is there a minimum length the Panhard Bar has to be to work properly/efficiently?
Does this also work with AOL (Axle over leaf [fliped axle]) setups?
Is it recommended that you run it with traction bars? I'm not sure if axle twist (without traction bars) would hurt the panhard setup or not . . .
Also, do you have a pinion seal leak or is that just me?
Thanks again, your truck gets better by the post!
#24
10-16-2008
Unregistered User
Posts: n/a
Longer bolts.. No. I had a local company make me a set of leafs ( Brute Spring ) that were lower ( less arch ) and stiffer ( higher rating then factory ). The bars bolted straight on. I have to use a couple of the thinner shims though for the rubber stoppers side so I can keep the quarter inch gap by the front spring pearches.
#25
10-16-2008
Unregistered User
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Is there a minimum length the Panhard Bar has to be to work properly/efficiently?
Does this also work with AOL (Axle over leaf [fliped axle]) setups?
Is it recommended that you run it with traction bars? I'm not sure if axle twist (without traction bars) would hurt the panhard setup or not . . .
[quote]Also, do you have a pinion seal leak or is that just me?[quote]
Thats junk/cleaning crap.
Thanks again, your truck gets better by the post!
