coilover brackets - Page 38 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource
Ford Ranger Forum - Forums for Ford Ranger enthusiast!

Go Back   Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource Arrow Ranger-Forums Technical Forum Arrow Suspension Tech

Suspension Tech General discussion of suspension for the Ford Ranger.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #926  
Old 02-13-2013
Level III Supporter
iTrader: (2)
 
I am: A car modding addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maine
Vehicle: 2000 Ranger Stepside 4x4
Posts: 1,206
Total Props: 6
I've posted this before, but IMO, even 650 is too high unless you've got a plate bumper and a winch on it. I don't know why so many guys run such heavy springs. Our trucks are light. Having such heavy springs limits movement, which negatively affects handling on any terrain, and reduces ride quality.

I'm running 10" 600 lb springs, and it's not a hell of a lot better than the TB ride. I'm swapping out to 12" 500 lb springs this spring. My 10" ones are cranked all the way, and I'm not sitting quite as high as that.

While I'm on the subject, as you can see by getrdone's pics, you can not run a coilover setup cranked all the way up like that because the upper control arms swing down into the coils.


Interested in a coilover conversion? click here.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #927  
Old 02-13-2013
SteelDirigible's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
I am: Crooooow !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Vehicle: 2006 4x4 XLT Ranger
Posts: 3,665
Total Props: 33
what's the reasoning behind going to the taller spring?
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #928  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME00Stepside View Post
I don't know why so many guys run such heavy springs.
Because the original factory made RCD coilover suspension kit came with 650's and countless people mentioned that they sag within 12 months of the initial install. The people that had plate bumpers experienced it as soon as 4-6 months - This is back in 2009. It was a well-known issue with the RCD suspension setup.

That's why everyone started going to the 750's for a stock setup, and even 800+ for those with heavy plate style bumpers.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #929  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Lukas Rodgers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cisne
Vehicle: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport
Posts: 23
Total Props: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME00Stepside View Post
I'm running 10" 600 lb springs, and it's not a hell of a lot better than the TB ride. I'm swapping out to 12" 500 lb springs this spring. My 10" ones are cranked all the way, and I'm not sitting quite as high as that.
Maybe if they are "cranked all the way" your springs are coil binding and causing the rough ride? Post up a pic of your current setup so we can see how it compares. Something is amiss here why there is such a range in springs between similar trucks.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #930  
Old 02-13-2013
SteelDirigible's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
I am: Crooooow !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Vehicle: 2006 4x4 XLT Ranger
Posts: 3,665
Total Props: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by logan03CO View Post
Because the original factory made RCD coilover suspension kit came with 650's and countless people mentioned that they sag within 12 months of the initial install. The people that had plate bumpers experienced it as soon as 4-6 months - This is back in 2009. It was a well-known issue with the RCD suspension setup.

That's why everyone started going to the 750's for a stock setup, and even 800+ for those with heavy plate style bumpers.
Is that a function of the springs used? for example, would a better spring not be as susceptible to sagging?

I would think that a lighter spring would be more likely to sag over time.
Are spring rates manufactured differently by varying the diameter of the coil rod, or spacing between the coils? assuming a constant spring diameter.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #931  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
Is that a function of the springs used? for example, would a better spring not be as susceptible to sagging?
Not really - The springs rating is the springs rating. It's a defined unit of measure that's universal across manufacturers.

From Pirate4X4.com (Coilover Bible - Part #1):
Coil springs have a rate – a description of how stiff they are. The rate describes how much the spring will deflect (compress) for a given load (weight) placed on it. The rate is measured in pounds per inch. The greater the rate, the stiffer the spring, and the more pounds of load it takes to compress the spring one inch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
Are spring rates manufactured differently by varying the diameter of the coil rod, or spacing between the coils? assuming a constant spring diameter.
Yes, but a given spring rate is still the spring rate - it's defined.

From Pirate4X4.com (Coilover Bible - Part #1):
Four things determine a coil spring’s rate:
1. The material from which it is made (the “torsional modulus” of the material, in psi)
2. The diameter of the wire from which the spring is wound.
3. The diameter into which the coils are wound – the Coil Mean Diameter.
4. The number of active coils in the spring


2003 Black Extended Cab - 4x4 Ranger, Supercharged 4.0 Liter SOHC, 4.88 Yukon Gears, Torsen Front LSD, Powertrax No-Slip Rear Locker, Goodyear MT/R's w/ Kevlar (35x12.5x15's), Trailready Aluminum Beadlocks, RCD Coilover Suspension Lift, PA Body Lift, SCT XCalibrator 3, Custom HID Projector Retrofit, Black Billet Grill, Magnaflow Stainless Steel Cat-back Dual rear exit exhaust, Viper car alarm, with perimeter sensor & remote start-I'm running out of room...but many other mods!
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #932  
Old 02-13-2013
SteelDirigible's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
I am: Crooooow !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Vehicle: 2006 4x4 XLT Ranger
Posts: 3,665
Total Props: 33
I see. Well I understand that spring rating is a defined quantity, but I was curious about the sagging. Since there are multiple factors controlling spring rate, for example, would a larger diameter wire with fewer coils be less prone to sagging than a spring with a smaller wire, but more coils (assuming both have the same spring rate)? That's more of a rhetorical question, since it's probably pretty complex, but that's what I was getting at.
Sagging means that the spring rate over time is decreasing due to weakening of the material.
I'm sure there are probably some materials that can be used that will not sag (within reason). Just curious if there are options as far as that is concerned.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #933  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Lukas Rodgers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cisne
Vehicle: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport
Posts: 23
Total Props: 0
The more "overloaded" a spring is the more likely it is to sag. Just as a spring that is on an offroad truck that gets flexed more is also more likely to sag.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #934  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
would a larger diameter wire with fewer coils be less prone to sagging than a spring with a smaller wire, but more coils (assuming both have the same spring rate)?
I know you said it was a rhetorical question - But, in the real world - any difference would be negligible.

If they both have the same spring rate - they will both sag at the same rate when subjected to the same loading - Note: I'm talking reasonable real world terms when I say 'same' - Not technical lab type results.

That resistance to compression is what determines the springs rate to begin with.

Last edited by logan03CO; 02-13-2013 at 11:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #935  
Old 02-13-2013
Level III Supporter
iTrader: (2)
 
I am: A car modding addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maine
Vehicle: 2000 Ranger Stepside 4x4
Posts: 1,206
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
what's the reasoning behind going to the taller spring?
Because with the 10" 600 lb, I don't have any more room to increase height. With the 12" 500 lb, I'll be setting the adjustment right in the middle, since there is about 5" of height adjustment on the shocks. I have the 6.5" travel shocks, too, even through I'm not SL'd...I plan on adding the SL soon, but at the height I'm riding, the 6.5" works quite well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logan03CO View Post
Because the original factory made RCD coilover suspension kit came with 650's and countless people mentioned that they sag within 12 months of the initial install. The people that had plate bumpers experienced it as soon as 4-6 months - This is back in 2009. It was a well-known issue with the RCD suspension setup.

That's why everyone started going to the 750's for a stock setup, and even 800+ for those with heavy plate style bumpers.
Must have been their springs, although I thought they used Eibach, which are a quality spring. I've had my 600 lb on for 16 months, and there is absolutely no sag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by griz700rocket View Post
Maybe if they are "cranked all the way" your springs are coil binding and causing the rough ride? Post up a pic of your current setup so we can see how it compares. Something is amiss here why there is such a range in springs between similar trucks.
No, I'm not in coil bind, they're just stiff. At ride height, I can stick my fingers between the coils. I think logan03CO hit it on the head: people are trying to avoid sag. Our trucks are not heavy enough in stock form to warrant more than 600 lb springs if they're good quality. Even with a plate bumper, I wouldn't go any higher. Add a winch to that, and I might consider stepping up to 650 or 700, but guys running 700 on a stock truck have got to be getting close to zero suspension movement under normal driving without additional weight.


Interested in a coilover conversion? click here.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #936  
Old 02-13-2013
Level III Supporter
iTrader: (2)
 
I am: A car modding addict
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maine
Vehicle: 2000 Ranger Stepside 4x4
Posts: 1,206
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
...Since there are multiple factors controlling spring rate, for example, would a larger diameter wire with fewer coils be less prone to sagging than a spring with a smaller wire, but more coils (assuming both have the same spring rate)?...
A larger diameter wire with fewer coils would definitely sag less, because it would be a higher spring rate. The equation is rather complex, but basically, less coils equals higher rate, and thicker wire means higher rate. Coil diamter also comes into play, but a spring with thicker wire and less coils would be considerably higher rate than more coils and thinner wire.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #937  
Old 02-13-2013
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

iTrader: (11)
 
I am: Justin Quade
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Vehicle: 2001 Ranger
Drive Type: 4x4
Engine: 4.0
Posts: 7,575
Total Props: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME00Stepside View Post
No, I'm not in coil bind, they're just stiff. At ride height, I can stick my fingers between the coils. I think logan03CO hit it on the head: people are trying to avoid sag. Our trucks are not heavy enough in stock form to warrant more than 600 lb springs if they're good quality. Even with a plate bumper, I wouldn't go any higher. Add a winch to that, and I might consider stepping up to 650 or 700, but guys running 700 on a stock truck have got to be getting close to zero suspension movement under normal driving without additional weight.
Say what you want but I have suspension travel and the ride is nice, better than my torsion setup. I don't have a whole lot to compare to so maybe a lower weight coil would be noticeably better, but I'm very happy with my setup, the rear is what stiffest for me.

Maybe since mine have miles on them they have softened up, but I like these coils since I plan on swapping a 5.0 and will probably have a plate bumper at some point.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #938  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by ME00Stepside View Post
A larger diameter wire with fewer coils would definitely sag less, because it would be a higher spring rate.
That underlined portion is the key.

However, SteelDirigible was asking a hypothetical about resistance to sagging between his two presented options & he stated that they both had the same spring rate - Which is why I posted that in the real world, any difference in 'sag' would be negligible because they have the same spring rate.

Last edited by logan03CO; 02-13-2013 at 12:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #939  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Levi W
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: springfield, mo
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger
Posts: 22
Total Props: 0
Well i dont know what to do now since my truck is in pieces, my springs are too stiff/too long. I will now have to spend more money to get shorter springs or maybe softer 12s but no one knows which...awesome anyone know how to take the springs off im guessing you have to take them off from the long rod end but how does one hold the shaft in order to remove the long rod end off?
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #940  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by springtown fx4 View Post
anyone know how to take the springs off im guessing you have to take them off from the long rod end but how does one hold the shaft in order to remove the long rod end off?
Assuming you have Fox brand coilovers: Installing & Removing Springs - Fox Coilovers
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #941  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Lukas Rodgers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cisne
Vehicle: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport
Posts: 23
Total Props: 0
I'm very interested in how this is going to work out. My new coil over brackets should be here this week and I'll hopefully be ordering fox 2.0 and springs next week. At this point I'm thinking 12in 650lb?
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #942  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Levi W
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: springfield, mo
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger
Posts: 22
Total Props: 0
Thanks for the info, now any ideas if i should get a shorter coil at higher lbs or stay with the 12s and just go real soft, This will be for ride comfort very minor to minamal off roading
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #943  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by griz700rocket View Post
I'll hopefully be ordering fox 2.0 and springs next week. At this point I'm thinking 12in 650lb?
Quote:
Originally Posted by springtown fx4 View Post
Thanks for the info, now any ideas if i should get a shorter coil at higher lbs or stay with the 12s and just go real soft, This will be for ride comfort very minor to minamal off roading
Assuming these are going on stock height trucks (aka - non-superlifted) & using Fox coilovers in the 5" travel variety - I would stay away from any type of 12" spring (regardless of spring rate).

Look at the pictures Getrdone52 posted from yesterday - This combo lands too high up on the coilover body and will conflict with your upper control arms.

Last edited by logan03CO; 02-13-2013 at 12:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #944  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Levi W
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: springfield, mo
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger
Posts: 22
Total Props: 0
Thats what i figured, wish someone would have said that when i asked last time now ill be out a 100 buck for new.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #945  
Old 02-13-2013
SteelDirigible's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (4)
 
I am: Crooooow !
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lexington, KY
Vehicle: 2006 4x4 XLT Ranger
Posts: 3,665
Total Props: 33
I may have mixed up what happens when changine the number of coils vs wire diameter, but logan gets what I was asking. I guess what I wanted to know is if one of the factors has more effect on sag over time.

I understood "sag" to be the reduced spring rate over time. I understand that when new, the same spring rates on the same length spring will have the same sag, but over time, will they degrade at the same rate?

Thanks for deealing with my questions... you guys have been very helpful in my quest for knowledge!
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #946  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelDirigible View Post
I understand that when new, the same spring rates on the same length spring will have the same sag, but over time, will they degrade at the same rate?
I would assume they could degrade at slightly different rates due to the differences you already stated (metal properties etc.). But again, I see it being a negligible amount.

It certainly wouldn't be drastic enough to entertain a change in spring rate (or even trigger a decision to pick a different quality manufacturer) in an attempt to account for the slight differences in construction properties between what two manufacturers used to obtain a given spring rate in the first place.

Long story short(er) - The tendency of springs to sag over time, is more closely related to the overall load rating of the spring, than the subtle differences between how two quality manufactures may have obtained that given rating.


2003 Black Extended Cab - 4x4 Ranger, Supercharged 4.0 Liter SOHC, 4.88 Yukon Gears, Torsen Front LSD, Powertrax No-Slip Rear Locker, Goodyear MT/R's w/ Kevlar (35x12.5x15's), Trailready Aluminum Beadlocks, RCD Coilover Suspension Lift, PA Body Lift, SCT XCalibrator 3, Custom HID Projector Retrofit, Black Billet Grill, Magnaflow Stainless Steel Cat-back Dual rear exit exhaust, Viper car alarm, with perimeter sensor & remote start-I'm running out of room...but many other mods!

Last edited by logan03CO; 02-13-2013 at 02:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #947  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Lukas Rodgers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cisne
Vehicle: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport
Posts: 23
Total Props: 0
Has anyone tried 2.25 ID springs? In the pics from page 51 it looks like there would be enough room not to rub the shock body. Might help with the UCA clearance issues.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #948  
Old 02-13-2013
logan03CO's Avatar
Member

iTrader: (3)
 
I am: E L
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Vehicle: 2003 Ford Ranger Edge 4.0
Posts: 1,235
Total Props: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by griz700rocket View Post
Has anyone tried 2.25 ID springs?
Nope.

According to page #15 of the Fox catalog (Available for download from this page: Offroad Shocks | FOX), the 2.0 series coilover is designed for a 2.5" I.D. spring.

I believe that's pretty standard.

Because remember, even using the recommended 2.5" I.D. spring only allows for a .25" gap around the outside of the 2.0" O.D. body.

Last edited by logan03CO; 02-13-2013 at 04:02 PM.
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #949  
Old 02-13-2013
Member
 
I am: Lukas Rodgers
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Cisne
Vehicle: 1999 Ford Explorer Sport
Posts: 23
Total Props: 0
Is it just me or does it look like the shock isn't very far extended. I'm thinking that should be pretty close to full droop so there should be close to 5in of shock shaft sticking out. I realize that's what limiting straps are for but it looks like the shock will bottom out before the a-arm get's close to the factory bump stop. Maybe the extended eyes move the shock down too far for the way the brackets were originally designed?
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
  #950  
Old 02-13-2013
01RangerEdge's Avatar
Scrambles the DeathDealer

iTrader: (11)
 
I am: Justin Quade
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Jackson, MO
Vehicle: 2001 Ranger
Drive Type: 4x4
Engine: 4.0
Posts: 7,575
Total Props: 33
You shouldn't have bumpstops after the coilover is installed. They have to be cut off to make room
Reply With Quote
+ 0 -
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Coilover brackets 2003level2 Suspension Tech 56 05-30-2016 07:40 AM
My Sport Trac (Gone Coilover'd!) Coilover Pic Thread shooterdude199 Snapshots 17 09-27-2011 03:25 PM
For Sale: Coilover brackets straps and more-WA 5.0fox Suspension, Tires, & Wheels 18 11-06-2010 11:32 AM
For Sale: NEW RCD coilover brackets and hardware!!!!HI 808danger Suspension, Tires, & Wheels 10 07-14-2010 03:52 AM
Want to Buy: Coilover Conversion Brackets (MA) 99offroadrngr Engine & Drivetrain 18 07-12-2010 01:04 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:46 AM.