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  #1476  
Old 04-26-2014
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Has anyone installed just the brackets and measured length from eyelet to eyelet with the suspension fully compressed on a truck at close to stock suspension height? I might have a line on some King shocks, but they might be too long.
The Kings are 13 compressed.
The foxes are 11.3 compressed.
That inch and a half is a lot. Add a 1 inch longer eyelet, and I'll need just over 14 inches eyelet to eyelet with the suspension LCA on the bump stop.

Found the answer...We really need to stick with something short when compressed. Even the foxes with the 1 inch longer eyelet makes them a bit long.
The best shock would be one that is 11.3 inches compressed. The fox is 12.3 inches with the 1 inch eyelet. I'm guessing the fox 5" is the closest for our application. Id still be curious to know that at full compression we hit the bump stop, and not use the shock at the bump stop. That would definately trash the shock (At best, at worst it would take out the shock mount).

Here is where I found the info:
I installed the RCD brackets and noted the compressed/extended length at both ends of full CV travel - it was 11.0" compressed and 14.5" extended: only 3.5" of shock travel! Out at the wheel it's farther than that of course, but inboard at the shock mounts that's all it is.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...light=coilover post 16

Last edited by Dono1; 04-28-2014 at 01:28 PM.
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  #1477  
Old 04-29-2014
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Can anyone tell me the difference in length between a regular length eyelet and an extended length eyelet? Is it really a full inch longer?
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  #1478  
Old 04-29-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dono1 View Post
Can anyone tell me the difference in length between a regular length eyelet and an extended length eyelet? Is it really a full inch longer?
They are close to 2 in longer. I can check for you when I get home if someone else does not answer. You need the length to clear the cv shaft
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  #1479  
Old 04-29-2014
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Thank you Mike,

With eyelets that much longer, the 5" travel shocks would be way too long in a stock bump stop configuration. This could very well explain why we have seen a few reports of the 5" travel shock shaft breaking.

My options would then be to use a longer bump stop (Decreases travel), or to try the shorter shock with 3.5" travel.

I don't want to limit my upward travel, so It is sounding more and more like I will try the 3.5" travel shock with the longer eyelet.

Do you by chance have the stock fox shock eyelet as well? I'm really interested in the length difference between the two.

I appreciate your response. I don't think I'm over thinking this, as the extended eyelet really changes the compressed length of the shock, and it seems to be something that has been overlooked.
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  #1480  
Old 04-29-2014
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.

Last edited by Dono1; 04-29-2014 at 04:36 PM. Reason: double post
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  #1481  
Old 04-30-2014
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Dono1, the 5" travel shock has been used a lot with a stock height truck and the extended rod ends, but they are pushed up a little bit in most cases (like a torsion bar crank to level a truck) rather than sitting at the original stock height. If you are swapping on an 07+ truck and keeping it at the stock height, the 3.5" travel may actually be the right one, but on a 98-06, you're probably going to end up lowering the front end a little bit.


UPDATE TIME

Brackets have been dropped off at the powder coater. They are telling me approximately two weeks turn time on this, so we're looking at the second/third week of May for shipping time.

The shop is going to start on another batch next week.


Interested in a coilover conversion? click here.
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  #1482  
Old 04-30-2014
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Dono, I just happened to look at your profile and see that you have an 00 Exploder. If this is the case, your stock height is similar to an 07+ Ranger. It is very possible that the 3.5" travel is better for your vehicle if you are not lifting it.
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  #1483  
Old 04-30-2014
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What is this about a few rods being broken? Does anyone have a link?
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  #1484  
Old 04-30-2014
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preload/ride height does not determine shock length...

every expo, ranger no matter the year will need the same length shock.
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  #1485  
Old 04-30-2014
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I have spent countless hours trying to understand suspension/geometry. I know less now than when I started, or so it seems to me.
I have seen a couple of threads on various sites that have nothing to do with these brackets that guys have broke their shocks. I think its clear something was wrong in the setup. I think the reason for them breaking is the shock being used as a bump stop.
It has been discussed in this thread that we need to run our suspension thru full travel with the shock we have chosen to ensure that at full compression the bump stop is hit before the shock bottoms out. We also need to ensure that at full extension of travel that the cv joint and ball joint isn't over extended (Limit straps).

What we are doing is fantastic, I just kept seeing where we chose a 5" shock because it had correct compressed height, then added a 1.5" extension. To me, that means that the shock is most likely becoming the bump stop.

I'm seriously considering using the brackets as the reason to install high end shocks and leave my torsion bars on. Something like the fox 2.0 smoothbody shock has a collapsed height of 10.65" and extended of 15.77". There would be no eyelet extensions required, but limit straps would be. The advantage is a fully tunable high end shock that couldnt be installed without these brackets.

Im in no way recommending anyone else go this route, but I think this might be the best route for me. At least it will give me something to report back on with results.
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  #1486  
Old 04-30-2014
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you are correct in your theories dono1
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  #1487  
Old 04-30-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK02 View Post
preload/ride height does not determine shock length...

every expo, ranger no matter the year will need the same length shock.
I don't completely agree with this, although I understand why you would make the statement. The reason for selection is application. If you have a significantly lower ride height, you need to consider how much downward travel you have available more than upward travel. In a stock 98-06 Ranger, or a TB crank height one, you are more concerned with upward travel. Granted, the suspension will still have the same available compression and extension regardless, but you have to look at different ends the shock travel. To my knowledge, no one has used this setup on a stock height Expo or 07+ Ranger, therefore no one has looked at how the coil overs sit under those conditions.

My thought is actually that it may be best to go with a slightly shorter rod end on the 5", but the 3.5" travel shock is still worth a look for lower riding trucks.


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  #1488  
Old 04-30-2014
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sorry to argue but its true.. its very basic and simple geometry actually. a stock length shock will work with the factory bumps and it will stop the droop before the cv limits. does not make any difference how much preload you have at all. keep In mind most of the people who are buying this kit have zero experience cycling suspension and dont even really know how it works.

When they hear that because they want max preload the they need a longer shock they are being mislead and will end up with a bump stop that doesnt even do anything


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  #1489  
Old 04-30-2014
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with the very little amount of travel these truck have stock you dont want to take any of that away with a longer/shorter shock and make up for it with shorter straps or longer bumps.. you would be better off leaving the Tbars and buying a fancy pin top shock (fox, king, radflo all make them)

im sorry if i come across as trying to put down the product or scare people away from it. Just trying to help the people understand a bit better
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  #1490  
Old 04-30-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dono1 View Post
I have spent countless hours trying to understand suspension/geometry. I know less now than when I started, or so it seems to me. I have seen a couple of threads on various sites that have nothing to do with these brackets that guys have broke their shocks. I think its clear something was wrong in the setup. I think the reason for them breaking is the shock being used as a bump stop. It has been discussed in this thread that we need to run our suspension thru full travel with the shock we have chosen to ensure that at full compression the bump stop is hit before the shock bottoms out. We also need to ensure that at full extension of travel that the cv joint and ball joint isn't over extended (Limit straps). What we are doing is fantastic, I just kept seeing where we chose a 5" shock because it had correct compressed height, then added a 1.5" extension. To me, that means that the shock is most likely becoming the bump stop. I'm seriously considering using the brackets as the reason to install high end shocks and leave my torsion bars on. Something like the fox 2.0 smoothbody shock has a collapsed height of 10.65" and extended of 15.77". There would be no eyelet extensions required, but limit straps would be. The advantage is a fully tunable high end shock that couldnt be installed without these brackets. Im in no way recommending anyone else go this route, but I think this might be the best route for me. At least it will give me something to report back on with results.
FYI the cv axle on 4x4 trucks is the driver for the extended eyelets it will me needed regardless of if your going coil over or just using high end shocks.

Yes I have stock eyelets I will measure as well.
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  #1491  
Old 04-30-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerider View Post
FYI the cv axle on 4x4 trucks is the driver for the extended eyelets it will me needed regardless of if your going coil over or just using high end shocks.

Yes I have stock eyelets I will measure as well.
I didn't think I would need extensions. Its just the shaft of the shock going down, no spring to cause clearance issues.
Here's a sample of what the shock looks like:
http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-13...5-8-shaft.html
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  #1492  
Old 04-30-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dono1 View Post
I didn't think I would need extensions. Its just the shaft of the shock going down, no spring to cause clearance issues. Here's a sample of what the shock looks like: http://downsouthmotorsports.com/i-13...5-8-shaft.html
Ya those are what I have on the rear of my truck and the eyelet would still be borderline to big they may just barely fit but there is very little real estate to play with. That's why the stock shocks have the pedestal mount.
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  #1493  
Old 04-30-2014
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Modifying comes with its challenges. I am a believer in these brackets, and the degrees of freedom they provide.
Post 1306 on page 53 has pics of the lower mount. I think I'll be ok using the selected shock.
If it doesn't work, I'll be the first to post that it doesnt, and show pics as to why.

Im finally feeling comfortable that I will be using full range of travel with this setup and using the factory bump stop. even though I'm going to retain the tbars, I'll have a great set of shocks. I'll report back what I 'think' happened to ride quality also. Worst case, i go coilover, and figure out how to use these on the rear.

Last edited by Dono1; 04-30-2014 at 07:17 PM.
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  #1494  
Old 04-30-2014
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Add me to the list. Been waiting a long time to do this, can't wait!

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  #1495  
Old 04-30-2014
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What limit straps do we need for the superlifted trucks?
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  #1496  
Old 04-30-2014
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Originally Posted by Blacktruckbrown View Post
What limit straps do we need for the superlifted trucks?
Read through this thread a few pages back I have covered several options for straps. The info is also in my project log if you can't find it here.
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  #1497  
Old 05-01-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK02 View Post
sorry to argue but its true.. its very basic and simple geometry actually. a stock length shock will work with the factory bumps and it will stop the droop before the cv limits. does not make any difference how much preload you have at all. keep In mind most of the people who are buying this kit have zero experience cycling suspension and dont even really know how it works.

When they hear that because they want max preload the they need a longer shock they are being mislead and will end up with a bump stop that doesnt even do anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK02 View Post
with the very little amount of travel these truck have stock you dont want to take any of that away with a longer/shorter shock and make up for it with shorter straps or longer bumps.. you would be better off leaving the Tbars and buying a fancy pin top shock (fox, king, radflo all make them)

im sorry if i come across as trying to put down the product or scare people away from it. Just trying to help the people understand a bit better
No worries. I think we all want the same thing: to help guys make the right choices and have a successful swap.

My reason for considering the shorter shock on an Expo or stock height 07+ is because I've seen how far the suspension can actually cycle at those heights. I actually had my Expo lowered a little, and there was still room for travel.

I still have my Ranger, although it is going up for sale after I take care of a few things on it, so I may throw just the brackets on one side and release the torsion bar so I can cycle the suspension and take some eyelet to eyelet measurements to post here, and get some pictures of CV clearance, etc.

I agree on not wanting to limit your travel. I'm just going off my experience thinking that if someone is riding at a significantly lower height, they may be riding close to the bottom of the shock travel. Again, having not actually tried it, I can't say for sure. Maybe someone on a stock height truck with Fox 5" travels will take the time to cycle their suspension with pics.


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  #1498  
Old 05-01-2014
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my point is if someone has a lowered truck riding close to bump then its going to hit the bump stops anyway, i shorter shock wont help at all other than limit droop even more. 98-11 rangers have the exact same suspension. just different keys which is no different than a couple extra turns of the top spanner nut on a coilover

another way to put it is the correct size shock will hit the stock bump and droop far enough to max out the cv and those two points never changed between expos and 08+ rangers :)

Last edited by BLK02; 05-01-2014 at 07:17 AM.
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  #1499  
Old 05-01-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLK02 View Post
another way to put it is the correct size shock will hit the stock bump and droop far enough to max out the cv and those two points never changed between expos and 08+ rangers :)
This is exactly what I meant when I said I think I know your reasoning.

I'm always for having more travel whenever possible, and reducing the size of the shock is going to hurt that.
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  #1500  
Old 05-01-2014
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I've installed this kit on an 08 ranger. It's tight in there when you put coils, straps and these brackets under the truck.

Still waiting for links on broken rods. I know of one thread but forget who had the issue.
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