Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource

Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource (https://www.ranger-forums.com/)
-   2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech (https://www.ranger-forums.com/2-9l-3-0l-v6-tech-32/)
-   -   1999 Ranger 3.0 Crank No Start Frustration (https://www.ranger-forums.com/2-9l-3-0l-v6-tech-32/1999-ranger-3-0-crank-no-start-frustration-150267/)

kougarokranger 02-21-2017 05:57 PM

1999 Ranger 3.0 Crank No Start Frustration
 
Hi Everyone,

I've been following many of the posts on here looking for advice and I've learned more about automotive maintenance and terminology than ever before with this project. I'm stuck and I'm not sure what to do next and would appreciate any/all suggestions people may have.

Background:

Purchased this 1999 Standard Cab 3.0 V6 Ranger automatic at auction. No battery, only knew it didn't run. Reports are that it stopped, and no one could get it running again. Crank, no start situation 32K miles on odometer. Has not run in years.

Since the purchase, I've done the following and learned a ton in the process. My beginnings were clumsy as I work more with snowmobile and ATV maintenance. Nothing has changed the crank no start situation or the behavior while cranking.

1. First I verified that the engine was not seized- all seems to be moving normally.
2. Installed new battery
3. Drained all fuel out of tank
4. Changed Fuel Filter
5. Put in 5 gallons of fresh fuel
6. Verified 55psi at fuel injector pressure fitting
7. Verified spark on all cylinders, healthy strong spark
8. Verified compression both dry and wet tests 140+ psi
9. Verified that plugs were wet with fuel after cranking
- plugs were black with carbon, cleaned, and continue to turn black
- exhaust smell from tailpipe but no white exhaust
- vibration when cranking but seems like adequate cranking speed, no cringe worthy noises
10. Tested all engine grounds and they had minimal resistance from ground to battery
11. Tested all relays by replacement with equivalent relay (I have another 1999 Ranger 4.0 that is my daily driver)
12. Tested all fuses
13. Replaced crankshaft positions sensor
14. Replaced Camshaft position sensor
15. Replaced Ignition Switch
15. Verified camshaft synchronizer position at TDC on crankshaft damper
16. Verified that all spark plugs are to correct port on coil pack
16. OBDII offers no codes
17. Battery voltage on dash reads low on fully charged battery
18. No RPMs register on dash when cranking but do on live data on OBDII scanner live data.
19. Drained, and replaced oil- was heavily diluted with gasoline from failed start attempts.
20. Verified that head gasket was intact by removing radiator cap and cranking. No exhaust gases pressurizing system.
21. Verified that exhaust pipe is not crushed, crimped or plugged by inspecting system and using remote camera.

Purchased a pull out PCM off Ebay with same part numbers, installed, and same crank no start situation except theft indicator on dash light system began to blink quickly. I reinstalled the old PCM and theft light goes off when key is cranking. No fast theft light blinking indicating a theft system fault.

I've viewed every "crank-no start video" I can find on YouTube and tried everything I can think of at this point. My hypothesis is that the timing may be off and that combustion gases are not being expelled properly. I'm thinking that this engine 32K miles is a little young for the timing chain to jump, and the camshaft synchronizer seems to be in the right position on TDC. I've seen a lot of videos where engines won't start because of a short. Perhaps this is one more of those and I need to purchase something like the Power Probe test kit off Amazon. One other thing on my list is that it could be the PCM, but the crank-no start was identical with the pull off PCM I purchased off Ebay, with the exception of the theft light blinking. Dang!

Sorry to be the guy that brings this to the forum without even an introduction. I'd really like to fix this truck and I'm learning a lot in the process but I'm stuck and would appreciate any suggestions.

custumline1956 02-21-2017 06:31 PM

sounds like broken cam remove valve covers and observe rocker motion. let me know.
This is not common but has happened.

custumline1956 02-21-2017 07:12 PM

Could also be Camshaft Synchronizer and Positioning Sensor .
This is fairly common and if anyone tried to replace could be installed wrong.

kougarokranger 02-21-2017 07:41 PM

Thanks Customline, it gives me another place to look. I appreciate the reply. Man, camshaft replacement sounds like one heck of a job.

custumline1956 02-22-2017 06:03 AM

This is the exact kind of stuff that intriges me to no end.
Cam replace is not as hard as it sounds should be able to do it with out removing engine from truck.
I love trouble shooting and repairing things that every one else has thron up there hands and walk away from.
Dont forget to give Camshaft Synchronizer and Positioning Sensor a very critical look.
One last question dos your engine developed oil pressure when you crank it?

kougarokranger 02-22-2017 08:38 AM

Yeah, I'm finding this pretty interesting as well and I've been keeping notes of all things I've done/tested on this project. I'll take another look at the camshaft synchro and sensor again. The oil pressure does come up to normal on the dash gauge when cranking, and the camshaft synchronizer appears to be in good shape and in the right position in relation to TDC on the crankshaft damper. I'm thinking something is wrong with the intake/exhaust cycle because of the carbon developing on the spark plugs.

custumline1956 02-22-2017 09:57 AM

Just because it looks right dont mean it is.
It could have been timed to the overlap stroke.
It would look correct but would be 180 out.

kougarokranger 02-22-2017 04:02 PM

I'll check it out and do some more inspection on the synchro. Thanks for the tip. I'll post what I find.

kobin 02-23-2017 06:58 AM

check the mass air flow meter and conection, i got a bumble bee in mine and caused the truck to die and not restart

kougarokranger 02-23-2017 08:08 AM

Thanks Kobin, when you got the bee in the MAF was there a error code? I'll check it out this weekend.

kobin 02-23-2017 12:06 PM

im sure there was but i dont remember. it was driving me nuts, a few new parts later i just happened to check the air filter to find that a mouse wanted to eat it and thats how the bee got in! i was getting up to speed on a on ramp when my lil truck just died and wouldnt restart! unplug the maf and try to start it, it will start and run but not great. if so look at the orfice in the maf for buggs or debree

kougarokranger 05-28-2017 10:14 PM

The Crank No Start Saga continues
 
So I finally got around to taking off the valve covers and associated parts and it seems that all is moving correctly. I verified the camshaft synchronizer is aligned with TDC with the alignment tool. At this point I'm wondering if it would be worth to keep going and look at the timing chain. It sure seems to be a timing issue.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Jeff R 1 05-29-2017 12:29 AM

It's very unlikely a valve timing issue, especially at only 32K.
The compression however isn't what it should be, but 140 won't stop it from firing _ should be at 160 or a bit better.
Also the fact that the synchronizer is lining up with the tool and #1 is at TDC indicates that the camshaft is in the correct position, so at this point, I would say that it isn't a mechanical valve timing issue.

I am going to assume that you are actually at number one on compression _ number one being the front left cylinder when you're facing the front of the truck.
That would be the front passenger side bank, closest to the rad.

Make sure you are using the correct alignment tool _ assuming you have the 5 plastic coloured ones that come as kit. That would be the blue one, the black one is used, but it is the wrong one, although it wouldn't throw it out enough to keep it from running.

Also check the teeth on the harmonic dampener are correct _ with #1 at TDC and on compression, you will count 4 teeth (clock wise facing the front of the engine) until there is a space or missing tooth _ this is the way it should be.
Sometimes guys think the space TDC.

Number 19 in your first post shouldn't be happening, there should not be so much fuel being injected into the combustion chamber that you need to change the oil.
Check the fuel rail dampener to see if it isn't leaking.
it's found one the left fuel rail near the front and it will have a vacuum line coming out of it, that is a safety feature.
If it leaks the excess fuel will go into the intake manifold.
With the key off and battery disconnected remove the vacuum line from it, hook up a vacuum pump to the dampener _ it should hold vacuum, if it doesn't, then it has failed.

If the fuel dampener has been leaking, excess fuel will be getting pulled into the engine through the intake manifold, so it's also quite possible that the catalytic converters have become partially blocked or even blocked.
Check the fuel dampener before doing anything else.

About the timing chain, it's just a simple double chain that has no tensioners involved, it's pretty much impossible for it to jump, both sprocket gears are steel.
GM used sprocket gears that had nylon teeth that became brittle and broke _ this allowed the chain to jump, but not in this case.

One other thing, is the CEL coming on when you turn the key on, if it isn't, then the bulb is burned out ?
If the bulb is healthy and you still have no CEL when the key is on, then that would indicate there is a problem with the PCM.
Remove the cover from the PCM and look for burned circuits and or swollen capacitors _ this however would be unlikely that the PCM would though.

The one from eBay wouldn't work because of PATS system.

RonD 05-29-2017 12:32 PM

Wow, been going on for a long time


A gasoline engine needs 3 things to start
Spark, at the right time
Fuel, in the right mix with air
Compression, higher than 100psi to vaporize gasoline

Compression would be what to test first since you have never started this engine
All spark plugs removed for good crank shaft speed
Then test all 6 cylinders and write down results for each

Compression will tell you if timing chain or valve timing is the problem
Compression is also a black or white result, can't have "intermittent" compression, you either have good compression or you don't

3.0l should be 160-170psi compression, 140 seems low but enough to start an engine cold, test again with all spark plugs removed
I assume all gasoline was drained and new gasoline is in the tank and fuel system

After compression test you will either know that's the problem or you can move on to spark or fuel, which is a simple 50/50 test

Compression good, then spray some fuel into the intake and crank engine
If it starts and dies the fuel is the issue
If it doesn't fire then spark is the issue
50/50

No spark, crank engine a few times and see if spark plugs are wet with fuel, if so the Crank sensor is working, if plugs are dry then test crank sensor
Crank Position sensor should generate about .7volts AC when engine is cranking
remove Computer wiring block from computer to test Crank sensor voltage when cranking, computer doesn't need to be on, crank sensor generates its own AC voltage


Yes, could certainly be a computer failure, never a big problem with Rangers but can happen

kougarokranger 05-30-2017 01:23 AM

Hey Guys, I appreciate the feedback and again I verified that the crankshaft synchronizer is at TDC with #1 at passenger side front. Harmonic balancer is at TDC with missing tooth four cogs to right of crankshaft position sensor. That was how I was verifying TDC after the compression stroke of #1.

I have tested compression on all cylinders and did both dry and wet tests as this machine has sat a long time. In one of the forums it detailed how on an engine that has been cranked with no start repeatedly can wash the cylinder with gasoline and reduce compression readings.

Readings are as follows: dry is as I bought the ranger, wet was with a few squirts of oil from the can.
#1 (dry 120) & (wet 182)
#2 (dry 135) & (wet 150)
#3 (dry 125) & (wet 154)
#4 (dry 117) & (wet 140)
#5 (dry 135) & (wet 162)
#6 (dry 180) & (wet 182)

All new fuel in the system and old fuel was drained.

I live in a rural area and am going to have to wait on Amazon to get the vacuum pump for the dampener test. In the meantime, I pulled all the injectors off the rail and am going to make sure those are clean and verify they all work.

The crankshaft position sensor is new, but I'll check out the voltage next time I crank it over.

The Check engine light is on when key is turned to AC and then turns off when cranking. I've pulled the PCM a few times and taken the cover off to look for any visible fried parts. It all looks good in there from what I saw.

Thanks for the tips on the timing chain. That's a project I'd rather avoid if not necessary. I'll update what I find about the condition of the fuel injection dampener.

Jeff R 1 05-30-2017 09:10 AM

For now remove the vacuum line from the dampener and see if there is a strong smell of fuel and or wet with fuel, either would indicate that it's leaking.
At any rate, the vacuum pump will come in handy for other things.

There are lots of videos on how to clean injectors too.

Those compression readings (dry to wet) would indicate that you have a compression ring problem, but even at 150 wet, I'm sure the valves are not in very good condition either.

If it's been run for a while with excessive amounts of fuel being burned (too rich), then maybe the valves and rings are just fowled up.

The part that doesn't make sense is that if it has been running rich, the PCM should show up with a "rich" code _ one would think anyway.

RonD 05-30-2017 10:08 AM

Timing chain is fine

Bad valve on #4, bad rings on #1 so regardless of getting it started you will need to pull the motor to rebuild or install another one

Did you do a 50/50 test?

Did you check spark plug tips after cranking?
Were they wet with fuel?

Can't wash cylinders with gasoline unless Crank sensor and fuel system is working, lol.

kougarokranger 01-31-2019 11:01 PM

The resolution
 
In the end, the fix for this issue was very simple: prior to me buying this ranger at auction someone had replaced the coil pack on this 3.0 Ranger with the coil pack of a 3.0 Taurus. Different firing sequence, thus, crank, and no start. Passed all the tests of spark, fuel, compression and I learned a lot about the engine in the process. Truck is running great at 35k miles presently.

Now I gotta pull the transmission on my 1999 4.0 Ranger. Always something.

kenhigg 02-01-2019 04:05 AM

How did you find out about the coil pack?

kougarokranger 02-01-2019 09:06 AM

I wasn't the one to figure it out and I ended up taking it to a shop. They had it for a month trying to diagnose, and the ASE mechanic was looking at it and observing and said, "I've seen this before, 15 years ago." They tested the firing order and realized the issue. $30 part, $1000 fix but worth it for me.

I read several forums on diagnosing first, swapping parts only if needed. As it turns out, if I would have swapped out the coil pack, it would have fired right up.

RonD 02-01-2019 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by kougarokranger (Post 2148470)
In the end, the fix for this issue was very simple: prior to me buying this ranger at auction someone had replaced the coil pack on this 3.0 Ranger with the coil pack of a 3.0 Taurus. Different firing sequence, thus, crank, and no start. Passed all the tests of spark, fuel, compression and I learned a lot about the engine in the process. Truck is running great at 35k miles presently.

Now I gotta pull the transmission on my 1999 4.0 Ranger. Always something.

That would be odd since the firing order is the same on pretty much all Ford V6 engines, 1-4-2-5-3-6
This has to do with balancing the rotating mass with Match Pairs of pistons
1/5
2/6
3/4
Are the match pairs
So the coil pack wiring has those match pairs
3 4
2 6
1 5
Front

OR

1 5
2 6
3 4
Front

You could accidentally reverse 1/5 and 3/4 ends but it would be big deal with operation

Since its a Waste Spark system even if Ford changed cams and used firing order 1-3-6-5-4-2, coil pack wiring would still work fine

So hard to reconcile the wrong Ford V6 coil pack

Jeff R 1 02-01-2019 10:20 AM

+1 on what Ron said.
Either the coil pack was faulty, even if it was showing spark.
And or the firing order was simply wrong.
Too bad it took a 1000.00 bucks to figure that out; assuming that was actually the problem.

When a garage takes a month to discover what's broken, they don't know what's wrong either.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:55 AM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands