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2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech General discussion of 2.9L and 3.0L V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #1  
Old 12-04-2005
VulcanMotor~PowerHouse's Avatar
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Anyone Ever Seen this??

http://www.sfxperformance.com/parts/SPE30015.htm

I have been wondering about this for a while.. I have a 66 plymouth w/ 318 Poly motor and it has a carb spacer which is good for some extra pony power..

Most of the guys at work say there pretty good and the price is too, I just wondered what the general take on the whole thing was before I made an order..
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Old 12-04-2005
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I dont know much about it but the colors are pretty and its shiney so i would definately get it.... what have u got to lose?
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2005
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Gosh, ANOTHER one.

Listen, lets try and keep it simple. It will do NOTHING. The 3.0 has a long intake plenum, and injects the fuel near the cylinders.

Those were designed for carbeurated and thottle body injected vehicles that mix the fuel and air at ONE POINT. In your vehicle, it will HURT performance.

Why? Because to swirl the air introduces RESISTANCE. In other words, if it doesn't improve mixing, there is no benefit and it actually REDUCES your maximum airflow!

If you want pretty and shiney, then fine. But those things have been shown again and again to produce nothing but losses in long plenum, port injected vehicles.
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Old 12-05-2005
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I had a very wierd (and slightly gross) thing happen to me. I was draining a bathtub in a hotel room and the water was just not draining fast enough. I got my courage up and reached in the drain and pulled out a toothpick. 1 toothpick that did not belong to me (the gross part). It was centered in the drain. The water quickly drained after the removal.

This got me to thinking pretty hard. The toothpick essentially acted like a butterfly valve in your throttle body and it severely slowed the water from travelling through. It prevented the water from swirling in it's normal fashion.

Does this apply to air? I don't know? What I did conclude is that a liquid will swirl on it's own, so why not air. I also concluded that an interruption (toothpick or butterfly valve) will severely impede the flow of water, so why not air.

What it lead to is why don't throttle bodies use a ball valve instead of a butterfly valve? If air works like water this would add tremendous flow to the system. Then it hit me. Air doesn't need to swirl. Water needs to swirl because it is displacing air. The swirl allows the air to come up from the center to be more effecient in flowing.

I still wonder why not a ball valve instead of a butterfly, though. A restriction is a restriction. Although at less than WOT a ball valve will have it's own issues by altering the flow. Maybe that is the answer.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2005
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The reason water swirls going down the drain is called coriolis force. It has to do with the fact that we are at an "angle" relative to the earths rotational axis, and it is the intersection of gravity and centrifugal force, if you will. It is natural, but not a constant and it depends on the angle of flow.

It is NOT the restriction of the butterfly that is causing the problem, and you do NOT solve it by adding ANOTHER restriction -- I.E.: the "tornado" (which is what one form of these is called).

The law of conservation of energy also says this (paraphrased): there ain't no such thing as a free lunch -- or -- you don't get something for nothing. What's that mean? It means that to get SWIRL, you have to TAKE the energy from somewhere -- that somewhere is the forward velocity of the air -- in other words, the swirling creates drag.

In the southern hemisphere, water swirls in the OPPOSITE direction than the northern hemisphere by the way.

Your example of the drain does not apply here, sorry. My comments stand.

Oh, almost forgot: butterfly valves produce a more "symmetrical" tubulence, so-to-speak, than other valve types. They are used almost universally where metering (control) of gases is involved. ***** and globes create a turbulence that takes longer to decay, and is difficult to get "branch" tubes to get an even quantity of air -- critical in an air intake application.

Last edited by n3elz; 12-05-2005 at 12:23 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2005
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Wow.. Calm down..

I have no idea how we got to sinks, drains, and the hemispheres from me asking if a throttle body spacer worked on a 3L.. Let the record show that I tried a search but got nothing except the Tornado topics.. (WENT DOWN THAT ROAD ONCE)..


As far as the "Do I want shiny things comment", Since the throttle body is under a big piece of composite resin WTF good would it do to have it be shiny??? I don't care if its dingle-berry brown as long as it gets the job done. Although in this case I can see that it won't..

People ask questions as a way of acquiring knowledge.. I didn't know if it worked and I asked.. I wasn't looking to be "another" one of anything.. Perhaps you should consider how you come across before you make a comment.. I wasn't trying to be an [email protected] I was trying to make sure I wasn't going to waste money..

I work at AUTOZONE for crying out loud, this ain't my first camping trip.. But we sell a lot of crap thats useless and some things that are good.. I was just trying to determine whats good and what isn't..

In the future I will be sure to not post any questions or comments so not to bother you with "another" one of "these"..
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2005
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
In the southern hemisphere, water swirls in the OPPOSITE direction than the northern hemisphere by the way.
.
Not true John,...kind of..... water swirls the way it is injected into a bowl, sink, etc. Things like a sink are way to small to be acted upon by Coriolis, unless you let them sit for a VERY long time and let the Coriolis defeat the whatever force are there. You can make water swirl whatever way you want in either hemisphere, IF you swirl it that way. Every year I had a kid try to tell me that his toilet could only swirl one way in N America...

But back to the topic.....

Last edited by buckgnarly; 12-05-2005 at 06:32 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2005
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WOW....
anyway the Helix Power Tower spacer probably will not give you any more performance from your engine

and regarding the slow drain and tooth pick
a tooth pick suspened across the water flow might create an air bubble and that would serve to block a low pressure drain as well as a plug
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckgnarly
water swirls the way it is injected into a bowl, sink, etc.
the jets in my toilet are faced for a counter clockwise rotation
good test is fill the sink and let it settle out
then pull the plug and see which way the whirlpool spins, if it forms at all
I will be sure to test it out if I ever visit Oceana....
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Old 12-05-2005
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Hang on...I am in Japan. Lets see what way it goes. I'll report back in a minute.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2005
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I got some strange looks by filling up the sink and acting excited..oh well.

It goes clockwise here. Did it in 2 different sinks, and filled her up...let it sit, and then pulled the plug.

What way does it go in the states?
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2005
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OK Adam, in the name of science...

My toilet is counterclockwise, my sink went straight down! It never went either way, just drained!
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2005
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I know how I "come across" -- maybe you should read what I wrote more carefully before you get "sensitive"...jeez, if you'd searched on here you would KNOW the answer because that thing IS a tornado in all but name and spacers have been discussed. If you can't figure out how to get information for YOURSELF that is readily available, then you are "another one" asking the SAME FREAKING QUESTION again.

So, please, if you have another stupid question -- DON'T ask and save us ALL the trouble.

That was answered in the same tone as your post below. Prior to your foolish post below I wasn't upset.

As far as working in an autozone: you may be like a lot of the guys that work at Radio Shack -- they're all in the business, but very few have real answers to anything. So I don't think your "I work at AutoZone..." carries a whole lot of weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanMotor~PowerHouse
Wow.. Calm down..

I have no idea how we got to sinks, drains, and the hemispheres from me asking if a throttle body spacer worked on a 3L.. Let the record show that I tried a search but got nothing except the Tornado topics.. (WENT DOWN THAT ROAD ONCE)..


As far as the "Do I want shiny things comment", Since the throttle body is under a big piece of composite resin WTF good would it do to have it be shiny??? I don't care if its dingle-berry brown as long as it gets the job done. Although in this case I can see that it won't..

People ask questions as a way of acquiring knowledge.. I didn't know if it worked and I asked.. I wasn't looking to be "another" one of anything.. Perhaps you should consider how you come across before you make a comment.. I wasn't trying to be an [email protected] I was trying to make sure I wasn't going to waste money..

I work at AUTOZONE for crying out loud, this ain't my first camping trip.. But we sell a lot of crap thats useless and some things that are good.. I was just trying to determine whats good and what isn't..

In the future I will be sure to not post any questions or comments so not to bother you with "another" one of "these"..
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  #15  
Old 12-05-2005
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Carl, you're confusing INDUCED flow, with a natural swirling effect and yes it does exist. If you induce a counterflow with sufficient force, then momentum will keep it flowing.

It does happen...
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Old 12-05-2005
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Lol
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Old 12-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
Carl, you're confusing INDUCED flow, with a natural swirling effect and yes it does exist. If you induce a counterflow with sufficient force, then momentum will keep it flowing.

It does happen...
Yeah, I probalby should clarify...if you let a bowl of water drain after ALL the other forces have settled out (like the initial pouring in, wind, shaking, etc.) then yes, having no other forces acting on it, then Coriolis would make it drain a certain way. That almost never happens though in everyday life, and the way a toilet/sink drains is for "daily life" purposes the way the water is introduced into the bowl. A lot of people just take what you said as meaning that water will ALWAYS drain a certain way depending on where you are.

Ever see the Simpson's episode where Bart calls Australia to see what way the toilet drains.....
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  #18  
Old 12-05-2005
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TOILETS for sure -- they are induced hydrodynamic dynamos! They need to be with me around...don't ask...

Yes, I see what you mean and that isn't what I was saying.

It comes under the heading of "electricity always takes the path of least resistance" -- total bull****. Electricity divides itself ratiometrically with the MAJORITY of the current taking the path of least resistance, but not all of it.

Some texts still throw that phrase out there which totally confuses anyone with no knowledge of the subject. In fact, people have been "shocked" (literally) to learn the truth, lol -- though some have probably died from it.
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  #19  
Old 12-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
In fact, people have been "shocked" (literally) to learn the truth, lol -- though some have probably died from it.
How you make something that is a possible tragedy, humorous to read...I must be sick. But hey, ya'll are the only one's talking about toilets.
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  #20  
Old 12-05-2005
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lol! ^^^

Well, that's one of my more quotable quotes...
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  #21  
Old 12-05-2005
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Well, I'm already regretting getting mad about this whole thing because of the ingratitude of some people.

However, I will say this in my defense:

1) I actually bother to ANSWER the question. Most people are SO tired of this subject they won't even take the time.

2) I didn't have an attitude towards the poster (until he came back at me like he did) -- just the subject itself.

So, sorry for the angry fire-off both to the poster, and to the rest of you -- I am just MORTALLY tired of hearing about these stupid things...
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  #22  
Old 12-05-2005
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........
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  #23  
Old 12-05-2005
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Meaning what?

Like, "well okay then", or "thanks for answering anyway" or are you saying you're still mad despite the fact that you started it?
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2005
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have you chased away a John, you mean, mean man.....
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2005
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I don't think John was harsh at all. I know I hate hearing about all this Tornado crap, and we try to tell people that it's a waste of money, non-functional, etc -- and they still continue to ask. At least he said he searched, I think [could have been yet a different thread]. If you search and five of the threads all say there is no benefit -- why create a sixth thinking we might tell you something different.

Or..John could just be going through some PMS or something. Modding withdrawl or whatnot.
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