4.0 sohc fuel in oil
#1
01-01-2018
4.0 sohc fuel in oil
2001 ranger 4x4 xlt supercab sohc
pulled out my dip stick and can smell fuel on it. FPR or leaking injectors? I'm not sure where to start, what to replace or...
No check engine light. Temp gauge always shows normal operating temperature.
I went on a hard 22 mile fire trail up 4500ft of incline today. afterwards I did my typical inspection and thats when I smelled the gas on the oil dipstick. I can hear a ticking sound in the engine, never owned a new truck, so not sure how normal that is for the injectors in this engine.
anyone experience this? What steps you took to diagnose and fix?
pulled out my dip stick and can smell fuel on it. FPR or leaking injectors? I'm not sure where to start, what to replace or...
No check engine light. Temp gauge always shows normal operating temperature.
I went on a hard 22 mile fire trail up 4500ft of incline today. afterwards I did my typical inspection and thats when I smelled the gas on the oil dipstick. I can hear a ticking sound in the engine, never owned a new truck, so not sure how normal that is for the injectors in this engine.
anyone experience this? What steps you took to diagnose and fix?
Last edited by Robotdestruct; 01-01-2018 at 05:49 PM.
#2
01-01-2018
#3
01-02-2018
When you burn a Hydrocarbon(gasoline) with Oxygen(air) one of the normal by-products is H2O(water)
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
#4
01-02-2018
When you burn a Hydrocarbon(gasoline) with Oxygen(air) one of the normal by-products is H2O(water)
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
Thanks for the info, means a lot. I should add that my cat converter is making a rattle sound that increases with a rev. Not sure what’s in there that makes a rattle. I’ve been meaning to do a whole new exhaust system. Previous owners have a Gibson on there but my rear leaf springs hit the end of the exhaust. The engine is making a ticking sound.
#5
01-02-2018
Cat converters often have heat shields, that's usually what starts to rattle
Inside there is honeycomb passages coated with various chemicals that react with the exhaust gases once cat converter is hot enough.
Generally if this part breaks apart exhaust gets Clogged, no rattling, just a lack of power at higher RPMs which goes down to lower RPMs the more it clogs up.
4.0l SOHC doesn't have Lifters to make ticking noise, they do have Cam Followers(like Rockers), that could make a ticking noise, although I have never read about that happening
Fuel Injectors can make ticking noises
4.0l SOHC did have timing chain issues from 1997 to 2004, but that is described as a "rattle" at startup and/or mid-RPM range
Inside there is honeycomb passages coated with various chemicals that react with the exhaust gases once cat converter is hot enough.
Generally if this part breaks apart exhaust gets Clogged, no rattling, just a lack of power at higher RPMs which goes down to lower RPMs the more it clogs up.
4.0l SOHC doesn't have Lifters to make ticking noise, they do have Cam Followers(like Rockers), that could make a ticking noise, although I have never read about that happening
Fuel Injectors can make ticking noises
4.0l SOHC did have timing chain issues from 1997 to 2004, but that is described as a "rattle" at startup and/or mid-RPM range
#6
01-02-2018
I checked the oil again and it has a potent smell of fuel. I even smelled my 2.3 lima after driving it literally all day, does not smell like fuel at all. Could it be the fuel injector(s) and if so, if just one is a problem, do I still replace them all.
I've been watching youtube videos of chain rattle in 4.0 sohc, makes them sound like a diesel! Mine isn't that aggressive sounding or loud. Tick Tick Tick Tick all in a consistent rhythm. Does NOT get louder when I rev, just faster.
I'm really hopping it's not the rear chain. If that tensioner is bad, I'd rather sell.
This weekend I'll be doing the valve cover gaskets. While I have those covers off Ron, is there anything I should look for or maybe replace while I'm already there? I'll be able to see the rear chain guide once the cover is off? I believe I have thanked you before, but I appreciate you giving me the time of day with my questions.
I've been watching youtube videos of chain rattle in 4.0 sohc, makes them sound like a diesel! Mine isn't that aggressive sounding or loud. Tick Tick Tick Tick all in a consistent rhythm. Does NOT get louder when I rev, just faster.
I'm really hopping it's not the rear chain. If that tensioner is bad, I'd rather sell.
This weekend I'll be doing the valve cover gaskets. While I have those covers off Ron, is there anything I should look for or maybe replace while I'm already there? I'll be able to see the rear chain guide once the cover is off? I believe I have thanked you before, but I appreciate you giving me the time of day with my questions.
#7
01-02-2018
also, I do have water coming out of my pipe even when driving 1hr+. but I do a lot of stop and go if that matters. I had one chance to get this 4x4 that I need for work up here in the snow, thats all my funds. If this takes a dump on me I'm screwed. So i'm trying to do my best to see if any of this is fixable or if I should sell before anything becomes an issue I can't afford. I'm also trying my best to do preventive maintenance.
#8
01-03-2018
When you burn a Hydrocarbon(gasoline) with Oxygen(air) one of the normal by-products is H2O(water)
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
This is why tail pipes drip water and exhaust systems rust from the inside out
If your MPG has not noticeably dropped, in winter it is always lower, and you don't have a consistent Misfire, then what you smell on the dipstick is a normal Blow-By smell
Especially in colder temps
Blow-by is the HOT Exhaust gases that "blow by" the piston and rings when a cylinder fires, it ends up in the crank case and some condenses when it reaches the cooler oil in the pan.
Blow-by will have partially burned gasoline, thats what Cat Converters are there to clean out of the exhaust system and what keeps the Cat Converters working.
Cat converters NEED unburned gasoline to stay HOT, so computer runs engine Rich every few seconds to keep Cats working.
Most of the Blow-by is sucked out of the crank case and valve cover areas by the PCV system, to be reburned in the engine.
This is why PCV system was added in the first place, back in the '50s-'60s Blow-by was just vented out thru a hole and tube in the lower block or upper oil pan, constant drip of oil from that tube, when engine got over 100k miles, lol.
There is no connection between oil system and fuel system, only cross over point is in the cylinders
My friend is saying the fuel in my oil can be that my pistons are shot or a gasket is screwed and I should ditch the truck.
#9
01-03-2018
No, if it is an injector issue you would just replace the one injector, they are not common failures so are not replace wholesale if one fails.
Get a smaller hose like vacuum hose size in a longer length
Use it as a stethoscope to listen to each injector with engine running, also valve covers at different spots to see if you can ID where the tick is coming from.
What could happen is that an injector is leaking but only slightly, so computer can compensate for it with engine running.
When you turn off the engine there would be 50psi of fuel pressure at each injector, so this leaking injector would be letting fuel run out into the intake and into a cylinder which would allow gasoline to run down into the oil pan.
You can test fuel pressure with a gauge, and you would see the pressure slowly drop after engine was shut off if this were the case, fuel pressure should hold for a few MONTHS, above 45psi in your year.
Not all the 2001 4.0l engines had a fuel pressure test port, look on the fuel rail, top of each injector, follow it around and look for a Schrader valve(looks like tires air valve) this is the fuel pressure test port, may have a cap on it, works the same as a tires air valve, so you can remove the cap and a gauge pushes down the center pin to read pressure, same as tire pressure gauge does.
Or do you notice that the engine doesn't startup first time every time, that would indicate loss of fuel pressure when it sits.
As for your friends diagnoses, there would be a marked lack of power and misfires from low compression if piston rings were worn out.
There is another test you can try
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
For Fords and most others it is this:
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way <<< this turns OFF all fuel injectors
Crank engine over
Engine should not start, it should not even fire, there should be no fuel going into engine
Spark is still on, but no fuel
If you have a leaking injector then engine would fire
I would turn warmed up engine off
Wait 5 min. for leaky injector to drip in some fuel
Then do the above test
I use this routine daily in my '94 4.0l with 350K, lol.
I use it to pump oil thru the engine before starting, reduce the wear on bearings from possible dry start
As soon as you release the gas pedal the injectors will start up
Or if engine RPMs go above 200 computer will start injectors, so if engine does fire and RPMs do go above 200 then computer will exit Clear Flooded Engine routine
TPS(throttle position sensor) is what starts this routine, TPS sends computer 4.5volt or higher at WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal down all the way
Key on starts computer
Computer sees 0 RPMs, engine off
If computer also sees 4.5v or higher from TPS with 0 RPMs it will enter Clear Flooded Engine routine and turn off injectors
Get a smaller hose like vacuum hose size in a longer length
Use it as a stethoscope to listen to each injector with engine running, also valve covers at different spots to see if you can ID where the tick is coming from.
What could happen is that an injector is leaking but only slightly, so computer can compensate for it with engine running.
When you turn off the engine there would be 50psi of fuel pressure at each injector, so this leaking injector would be letting fuel run out into the intake and into a cylinder which would allow gasoline to run down into the oil pan.
You can test fuel pressure with a gauge, and you would see the pressure slowly drop after engine was shut off if this were the case, fuel pressure should hold for a few MONTHS, above 45psi in your year.
Not all the 2001 4.0l engines had a fuel pressure test port, look on the fuel rail, top of each injector, follow it around and look for a Schrader valve(looks like tires air valve) this is the fuel pressure test port, may have a cap on it, works the same as a tires air valve, so you can remove the cap and a gauge pushes down the center pin to read pressure, same as tire pressure gauge does.
Or do you notice that the engine doesn't startup first time every time, that would indicate loss of fuel pressure when it sits.
As for your friends diagnoses, there would be a marked lack of power and misfires from low compression if piston rings were worn out.
There is another test you can try
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
For Fords and most others it is this:
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way <<< this turns OFF all fuel injectors
Crank engine over
Engine should not start, it should not even fire, there should be no fuel going into engine
Spark is still on, but no fuel
If you have a leaking injector then engine would fire
I would turn warmed up engine off
Wait 5 min. for leaky injector to drip in some fuel
Then do the above test
I use this routine daily in my '94 4.0l with 350K, lol.
I use it to pump oil thru the engine before starting, reduce the wear on bearings from possible dry start
As soon as you release the gas pedal the injectors will start up
Or if engine RPMs go above 200 computer will start injectors, so if engine does fire and RPMs do go above 200 then computer will exit Clear Flooded Engine routine
TPS(throttle position sensor) is what starts this routine, TPS sends computer 4.5volt or higher at WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal down all the way
Key on starts computer
Computer sees 0 RPMs, engine off
If computer also sees 4.5v or higher from TPS with 0 RPMs it will enter Clear Flooded Engine routine and turn off injectors
Last edited by RonD; 01-03-2018 at 11:36 AM.
#10
01-03-2018
No, if it is an injector issue you would just replace the one injector, they are not common failures so are not replace wholesale if one fails.
Get a smaller hose like vacuum hose size in a longer length
Use it as a stethoscope to listen to each injector with engine running, also valve covers at different spots to see if you can ID where the tick is coming from.
What could happen is that an injector is leaking but only slightly, so computer can compensate for it with engine running.
When you turn off the engine there would be 50psi of fuel pressure at each injector, so this leaking injector would be letting fuel run out into the intake and into a cylinder which would allow gasoline to run down into the oil pan.
You can test fuel pressure with a gauge, and you would see the pressure slowly drop after engine was shut off if this were the case, fuel pressure should hold for a few MONTHS, above 45psi in your year.
Not all the 2001 4.0l engines had a fuel pressure test port, look on the fuel rail, top of each injector, follow it around and look for a Schrader valve(looks like tires air valve) this is the fuel pressure test port, may have a cap on it, works the same as a tires air valve, so you can remove the cap and a gauge pushes down the center pin to read pressure, same as tire pressure gauge does.
Or do you notice that the engine doesn't startup first time every time, that would indicate loss of fuel pressure when it sits.
As for your friends diagnoses, there would be a marked lack of power and misfires from low compression if piston rings were worn out.
There is another test you can try
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
For Fords and most others it is this:
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way <<< this turns OFF all fuel injectors
Crank engine over
Engine should not start, it should not even fire, there should be no fuel going into engine
Spark is still on, but no fuel
If you have a leaking injector then engine would fire
I would turn warmed up engine off
Wait 5 min. for leaky injector to drip in some fuel
Then do the above test
I use this routine daily in my '94 4.0l with 350K, lol.
I use it to pump oil thru the engine before starting, reduce the wear on bearings from possible dry start
As soon as you release the gas pedal the injectors will start up
Or if engine RPMs go above 200 computer will start injectors, so if engine does fire and RPMs do go above 200 then computer will exit Clear Flooded Engine routine
TPS(throttle position sensor) is what starts this routine, TPS sends computer 4.5volt or higher at WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal down all the way
Key on starts computer
Computer sees 0 RPMs, engine off
If computer also sees 4.5v or higher from TPS with 0 RPMs it will enter Clear Flooded Engine routine and turn off injectors
Get a smaller hose like vacuum hose size in a longer length
Use it as a stethoscope to listen to each injector with engine running, also valve covers at different spots to see if you can ID where the tick is coming from.
What could happen is that an injector is leaking but only slightly, so computer can compensate for it with engine running.
When you turn off the engine there would be 50psi of fuel pressure at each injector, so this leaking injector would be letting fuel run out into the intake and into a cylinder which would allow gasoline to run down into the oil pan.
You can test fuel pressure with a gauge, and you would see the pressure slowly drop after engine was shut off if this were the case, fuel pressure should hold for a few MONTHS, above 45psi in your year.
Not all the 2001 4.0l engines had a fuel pressure test port, look on the fuel rail, top of each injector, follow it around and look for a Schrader valve(looks like tires air valve) this is the fuel pressure test port, may have a cap on it, works the same as a tires air valve, so you can remove the cap and a gauge pushes down the center pin to read pressure, same as tire pressure gauge does.
Or do you notice that the engine doesn't startup first time every time, that would indicate loss of fuel pressure when it sits.
As for your friends diagnoses, there would be a marked lack of power and misfires from low compression if piston rings were worn out.
There is another test you can try
All fuel injection computers have a "Clear Flooded Engine" routine
For Fords and most others it is this:
Turn on the key
Press gas pedal down to the floor and hold it down all the way <<< this turns OFF all fuel injectors
Crank engine over
Engine should not start, it should not even fire, there should be no fuel going into engine
Spark is still on, but no fuel
If you have a leaking injector then engine would fire
I would turn warmed up engine off
Wait 5 min. for leaky injector to drip in some fuel
Then do the above test
I use this routine daily in my '94 4.0l with 350K, lol.
I use it to pump oil thru the engine before starting, reduce the wear on bearings from possible dry start
As soon as you release the gas pedal the injectors will start up
Or if engine RPMs go above 200 computer will start injectors, so if engine does fire and RPMs do go above 200 then computer will exit Clear Flooded Engine routine
TPS(throttle position sensor) is what starts this routine, TPS sends computer 4.5volt or higher at WOT(wide open throttle), gas pedal down all the way
Key on starts computer
Computer sees 0 RPMs, engine off
If computer also sees 4.5v or higher from TPS with 0 RPMs it will enter Clear Flooded Engine routine and turn off injectors
I’ll be home in 2 hours and try all this and check back in. It starts up every time, never notice any misfires. Thanks so much Ron.
#11
01-04-2018
according to your other thread there’s no issues..... u know the one looking for an idea of what’s its worth? Wow, which is it? Is the truck broke,fixed or not
geez come here looking for advice and can’t even tell the truth...........
#12
01-04-2018
Not telling the truth? Why are you trying to start problems for? Everyone who has seen the truck in person says the oil smells like fuel but that’s normal. I’ve never experienced that and asked the forum full of enthusiasts for advice instead of friends who are not. I’d rather trouble shoot what I think COULD be a problem before it gets more expensive or worse. I’m not gonna dump a lot of money if the value of the vehicle isn’t worth much. So far fuel pressure is fine and my heat shield in my exhaust is loose. Next weekend I need to go to an exhaust shop for that and because the way the exhaust hangs hits my rear right leaf spring.
#13
01-05-2018
On thing I don't think I mention was heat.
Normal operating temp for coolant in an engine is 190-210 degF, your thermostat should be 192 or 195 degF
At this operating temp the oil in the engine gets hot enough to burn off condensation(water) and any fuel residues.
190degF on Ford temp gauge would be slightly below 1/2, 1/2 is about 205-210degF
A Cold engine needs to run about 20min to burn off the water and fuel in the oil.
A problem that can occur when someone lives "close to work" is that engine never warms up fully so never burns off the water and fuel, and you wouldn't smell the water, lol.
Pull off the oil filler cap, and look at the under side, whitish residue is the water not being burned off.
Also check end of PCV Valve, that will also show if oil/engine is not getting warm enough for long enough.
Remedy is to drive it for 30min once a week to get oil hot enough, and make sure that temp needle is getting up close to 1/2 way, if not change thermostat, it is broken or the wrong one.
Normal operating temp for coolant in an engine is 190-210 degF, your thermostat should be 192 or 195 degF
At this operating temp the oil in the engine gets hot enough to burn off condensation(water) and any fuel residues.
190degF on Ford temp gauge would be slightly below 1/2, 1/2 is about 205-210degF
A Cold engine needs to run about 20min to burn off the water and fuel in the oil.
A problem that can occur when someone lives "close to work" is that engine never warms up fully so never burns off the water and fuel, and you wouldn't smell the water, lol.
Pull off the oil filler cap, and look at the under side, whitish residue is the water not being burned off.
Also check end of PCV Valve, that will also show if oil/engine is not getting warm enough for long enough.
Remedy is to drive it for 30min once a week to get oil hot enough, and make sure that temp needle is getting up close to 1/2 way, if not change thermostat, it is broken or the wrong one.
#14
01-06-2018
Not telling the truth? Why are you trying to start problems for? Everyone who has seen the truck in person says the oil smells like fuel but that’s normal. I’ve never experienced that and asked the forum full of enthusiasts for advice instead of friends who are not. I’d rather trouble shoot what I think COULD be a problem before it gets more expensive or worse. I’m not gonna dump a lot of money if the value of the vehicle isn’t worth much. So far fuel pressure is fine and my heat shield in my exhaust is loose. Next weekend I need to go to an exhaust shop for that and because the way the exhaust hangs hits my rear right leaf spring.
Now take sometime an let that sink in...
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