Ask me tuning questions - Page 7 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #151  
Old 03-05-2009
Roddy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,332
Bob did you read my post? I mean really? why are you all over this guy? maybe work together.

Park the ego. Lets be adults. I enjoy reading threads here... i dont like reading arguements.
Reply With Quote
  #152  
Old 03-05-2009
N20-3.0's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL
Posts: 147
Agreed!!
From what I notice.Bob lives for the argument.
Reply With Quote
  #153  
Old 03-05-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Update:

I revised the crank A/F chart. I added more fuel and spead the ramp over a larger ECT scale. (engine coolant temp)

This week brought some very cold temps and it works awsome. At zero I'm commanding a 12.0/1 and one morning it was 1F. Man it was nice. Fired right up.
This morning was 28F and it did the same.
For now my under 100F temps are good and I'll leave them as is.

I still need to tune the 160F to 100F areas. (as if parked for 1/2hr after driving) It still cranks a little long at those temps. It's been so cold here that its kinda tough to record crank times in those areas. The motor cools off too quickly. I need to wait until spring / summer for that stuff. Really small issues though.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 03-05-2009 at 06:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #154  
Old 03-05-2009
~DerkasRanger~'s Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brookville, Indiana
Posts: 33
ok well i got one for ya that may be a bit of a challenge.
i purchased a gas performance chip that works with the IAT sensor. i found the sensor but cant get my hand in there to cut the wires or to see what color the wires are to code them back at the main fuse control and hook this chip up. does anybody have the complete wiring harness for the 1993 Ford Ranger4.0L 4x4 Manual transmission? if so could you pm it to me before i cut the wrong wires lol. i think they are both grey and the neutral has a black stripe down it.
Reply With Quote
  #155  
Old 03-06-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
I can't help you other than to say two things:

1) My 06 has the IAT sensor *in the MAF*.

2) In the tune you can easily change the timing vs IAT temps.
If they have you moving the IAT sensor... it's because who ever tuned it has no clue about what they are doing. Tricking the PCM is not the right way to tune. Going into the effected tables and adjusting the setting to a realistic scale is.

On my stock tune, Ford stated pulling timing at only 80F. I've raised that to 110F for daily driving.
The whole point is not to trick the PCM. It's to adjust timing for peak cylinder pressure. If the intake charge is not accurately measured then added timing will only make it knock. You'll loose power and if it's bad enough you'll hear it. And if it's waaay off you could hurt the engine.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 03-06-2009 at 07:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #156  
Old 03-06-2009
N20-3.0's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~DerkasRanger~ View Post
ok well i got one for ya that may be a bit of a challenge.
i purchased a gas performance chip that works with the IAT sensor. i found the sensor but cant get my hand in there to cut the wires or to see what color the wires are to code them back at the main fuse control and hook this chip up. does anybody have the complete wiring harness for the 1993 Ford Ranger4.0L 4x4 Manual transmission? if so could you pm it to me before i cut the wrong wires lol. i think they are both grey and the neutral has a black stripe down it.
It is the gray wire into the PCM.
Don't cut the wire.

Last edited by N20-3.0; 03-06-2009 at 03:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #157  
Old 03-07-2009
~DerkasRanger~'s Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brookville, Indiana
Posts: 33
nno you cut the wires and scotch clip the chip in a series circuit. i found it its up by the throttle cables for cruise and regular throttle. its a bad assed chip so far that i tested out.
Reply With Quote
  #158  
Old 03-07-2009
Npierce's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 419
Seeing some good info in here, Keep up te work Rich, soon enough I will join you in the tuning for beginners....
Reply With Quote
  #159  
Old 03-08-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Npierce View Post
Seeing some good info in here, Keep up te work Rich, soon enough I will join you in the tuning for beginners....
I've learned an awful lot of things that I've not talked about. Just let me know via PM or e-mail when you get to tuning.
Reply With Quote
  #160  
Old 03-08-2009
~DerkasRanger~'s Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brookville, Indiana
Posts: 33
hmmm the chips breaking in. i climbed a 10/12 gravel pitched driveway by just letting it idle out with the clutch. seems the chip gives the engine control i was looking for.

whats the best gear to use in the Mitsubishi tranny with the 4.0?
Reply With Quote
  #161  
Old 03-09-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
The manual tranny? I don't know.

As far as idle goes. I leave fuel and timing bone stock except for rpms because of my underdrives.

I have toyed with raising the timing. That works just ok. But other than rpms I don't see any advantage to adjusting it. At least not for my street driven automatic.


Rich
Reply With Quote
  #162  
Old 03-09-2009
~DerkasRanger~'s Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brookville, Indiana
Posts: 33
yea the manual tranny. lol haent heard of gear oil being used in an auto yet. i just put sycromesh in there and havent had any problems yet with my syncs. next time i gotta fill it ill have to grab 95w-140 see how that works out.

but the chip hooks onto the Intake Air Sensor. helps unstrict the factory restrictions in your computer that cause you to have to give it more gas for min. performance. the chip eliminates that part of the programming from the computer before the sensor. and the more miles i drive the better this truck runs.
Reply With Quote
  #163  
Old 03-09-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~DerkasRanger~ View Post

but the chip hooks onto the Intake Air Sensor. helps unstrict the factory restrictions in your computer that cause you to have to give it more gas for min. performance. the chip eliminates that part of the programming from the computer before the sensor. and the more miles i drive the better this truck runs.
Sounds like the "chip" is modifying the MAF signal to the PCM.

In that case, the PCM will learn over time the offset and still correct the fuel.
So in essesence.. over time, your tunes adaptive learning will be identical to stock. (assuming your model year uses adaptive learning like my 06 does)


Tricking the PCM is the wrong way about modifying a tune. The right way to mod a tune is to... mod the tune.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #164  
Old 03-09-2009
04blackedge's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (13)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 23,426
Yeah that sounds like one of those ebay special chips, I've heard horror stories about those.
Reply With Quote
  #165  
Old 03-09-2009
Jp7's Avatar
Jp7 Jp7 is offline
Member
iTrader: (9)
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: My LED lab or on the dyno
Posts: 2,970
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
The right way to mod a tune is to... mod the tune.

Rich

Excellent! You pass the first test grasshoppah!
Reply With Quote
  #166  
Old 03-09-2009
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Sounds like the "chip" is modifying the MAF signal to the PCM.

In that case, the PCM will learn over time the offset and still correct the fuel.
So in essesence.. over time, your tunes adaptive learning will be identical to stock. (assuming your model year uses adaptive learning like my 06 does)


Tricking the PCM is the wrong way about modifying a tune. The right way to mod a tune is to... mod the tune.

Rich
No, all it does is add resistance in series with the IAT sensor, making the PCM think the intake air is colder than what it really is......Bad mistake!!
Reply With Quote
  #167  
Old 03-09-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
....is add resistance in series with the IAT sensor, making the PCM think the intake air is colder than what it really is....

Oh really? You have tuning knowledge and ability? How is it then that
"adaptive learning" over time *won't* correct the a/f?

Do tell..
Reply With Quote
  #168  
Old 03-10-2009
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Oh really? You have tuning knowledge and ability? How is it then that
"adaptive learning" over time *won't* correct the a/f?

Do tell..
No Rich, I understand how the PCM and the associated sensors operate, something you don't have a clue about.......Besides, the "ADAPTIVE CONTROL" mainly affects the "OPEN LOOP" values to keep the A/F in check due to the O2 sensor output not being used in this mode. But there again, you
don't understand the "OPEN" vs "CLOSED" loop operation...maybe this will help you:


From Fordfuelinjection.com:

Quote:
There are two methods of EEC fuel control, Open Loop and Closed Loop. The EEC starts in Open Loop and based
upon time and engine parameters such as engine temperature, changes to Closed Loop. During Open loop operation,
the O2 sensors are not used to trim air/fuel mixture and hence the name “open” loop. Closed Loop operation consists
of an EEC controller that uses a target air/fuel ration contained in lookup tables (based on a Ford test engine) that uses
the O2 sensors as feedback for making adjustments. If the output of the O2 (HEGO) sensors stay either below .33
volts or above .8 volts, then the engine is running too lean or too rich. Here is a graph of the two output levels that
signify out-of-tolerance values that cause correction factors to be calculated by the EEC and applied to the injector
pulse width as well as being written to correction tables in KAM, which is called Adaptive Control.

Years ago, a friend of mine had a Porsche 924, that would intermittently shut off. I traced the problem to the DME (Porsche for PCM),
and dug into it. I found that the 5V for the digital circuits was going to 0V.
The 5V regulator was made up of discrete components, which I replaced with
a better solution....a linear 5V regulator, which you can see in this photo.
This solved the problem, and saved my friend some big $$$$.









Would you be able to do something like this Rich????????

Last edited by Takeda; 03-10-2009 at 05:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #169  
Old 03-10-2009
~DerkasRanger~'s Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Brookville, Indiana
Posts: 33
it may be an ebay chip but its already gave 20+miles to a quarter tank and has a quicker time with accelerating. i believe it's broken in and im happy with the results. never seen a ranger that wasnt carborated run like this v6 does. its a 93 so no i doubt the pcm will adapt. i cant even get readings off those sensor detectors or whatever advance auto tries to selll me everytime i go into make some deals.

you've heard horror stories? i contacted people who bout this over 6 months ago on ebay and they said it helps ALOT with fuel and torque but havent heard of any horror stories unless they actually did install it wrong lol.

p.s. when it comes to electric if anybody needs help you can contact me. im starting my journeymens apprenticeship and the electric in a vehicle is easy then wiring a house.
Reply With Quote
  #170  
Old 03-11-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
No Rich, I understand how the PCM and the associated sensors operate, something you don't have a clue about.....
LOL.. you post information and insults.. but it NEVER pertains to the point at hand!


Again.. Care to answer the question?

"How is it then that "adaptive learning" over time *won't* correct the a/f?"
Reply With Quote
  #171  
Old 03-11-2009
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
LOL.. you post information and insults.. but it NEVER pertains to the point at hand!


Again.. Care to answer the question?

"How is it then that "adaptive learning" over time *won't* correct the a/f?"
Isn't that the purpose of "adaptive CONTROL"??????

Your problem Rich, you pick up on "BUZZ WORDS" but you don't have a clue what they mean!!!

Now answer my question, can you do internal diagnostics on a PCM????
Reply With Quote
  #172  
Old 03-11-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~DerkasRanger~ View Post
it may be an ebay chip but its already gave 20+miles to a quarter tank and has a quicker time with accelerating.
Your year of ranger is an OBD1. Back in those days they very well might perform like you report by modifying the MAF signal. The modern OBD2 stuff though will correct for many different sensors being off a little. I'm not sure about the early OBD2's.. like 96-98 models.

One way that some of the greenies improve milage is to modify the 02 signal going to the PCM. Since the PCM *thinks* the a/f is too rich it trys to reach the commanded a/f by altering STFT and LTFT. (fuel trims)

The fuel trims commanded by the PCM are a result of many differing sensor inputs, math charts within the tune, and what it sees as "load".
It's very complicated and changing only one of those *input* parameters won't gain an OBD2 PCM much at all.

One litte trick us drag racers use to get around adaptive learning is to clear the KAM at the strip. That is.. if your running a street tune w/adaptive learning still turned on.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #173  
Old 03-11-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Isn't that the purpose of "adaptive CONTROL"?????

Note to everyone reading... mr stalker thinks that answering a question with a question is adequate. Hum.. sounds like a politician to me.
'm not buying it. And neither does anyone with 1/2 a brain. If you can't answer this straight fwd question then I have no more time for your hate (insults) and deflection of facts.

Either answer the question or get out of my thread.


Regards & peace..

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #174  
Old 03-11-2009
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Your year of ranger is an OBD1. Back in those days they very well might perform like you report by modifying the MAF signal. The modern OBD2 stuff though will correct for many different sensors being off a little. I'm not sure about the early OBD2's.. like 96-98 models.

One way that some of the greenies improve milage is to modify the 02 signal going to the PCM. Since the PCM *thinks* the a/f is too rich it trys to reach the commanded a/f by altering STFT and LTFT. (fuel trims)

The fuel trims commanded by the PCM are a result of many differing sensor inputs, math charts within the tune, and what it sees as "load".
It's very complicated and changing only one of those *input* parameters won't gain an OBD2 PCM much at all.

One litte trick us drag racers use to get around adaptive learning is to clear the KAM at the strip. That is.. if your running a street tune w/adaptive learning still turned on.

Rich

Rich, enough BS!!!!! If you read Derkasranger's original post, he said this:

"i purchased a gas performance chip that works with the IAT sensor."

So, as I originally tried to explain to you this "chip" adds series resistance to the IAT sensor, to make the PCM think the incoming air is colder, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAF sensor!!!!!

Just another one of your bad information posts!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #175  
Old 03-11-2009
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Doh.. your right. But the point is the same. Tricking the PCM is not the correct way. Both the MAF and the IAT have math charts they refer to. As well as many others...


Care to answer the question.. or continue to dodge it. Stalker.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Damn...I ask a lot of questions... RazorEdge General Technical & Electrical 5 12-05-2013 01:16 PM
I've always wanted to ask BurningRANGERtires Suspension Tech 56 10-01-2008 06:31 PM
Gotta ask Reddsurion 2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech 16 09-20-2008 03:39 AM
Value of my Ranger (or how much should I ask) CNYDave General Ford Ranger Discussion 26 09-18-2008 08:00 AM
Im sure this is a bad idea, but I just have to ask.. VulcanMotor~PowerHouse Drivetrain Tech 19 12-28-2005 10:02 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:33 PM.