Ethanol conversion for 4.0 SOHC? - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #1  
Old 01-26-2007
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Ethanol conversion for 4.0 SOHC?

Was talking to my mechanic the other day and he was telling me that NY is about to get a few ethanol plants, or w/e. My question is, dose anyone make a conversion kit for the 4.0 SOHC motor or is only the 3.0 that has the flex fuel capability? If there is a kit is it worth it for the truck, cuz last I heard ethanol is going for around $1 a gallon?
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Old 01-26-2007
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find an 04 explorer flex fuel 4.0 and take the fuel pump, fuel lines, injectors all that good stuff and have your pcm reflashed or take the one off the explorer, and i think that will get you what you want.
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Old 01-26-2007
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and some of the 2003-2005 Sport Trac's came with the 4.0 Flex Fuel engines...
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  #4  
Old 01-26-2007
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How about the kit offered here: http://flextek.com/
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  #5  
Old 01-26-2007
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well the only difference between the ethanol and gasoline is that the ethanol is not as dense as the gasline, and the atomic makeup is only slightly different. So all you really need is new injectors, a pump, and you'll have to play with your timing.

But, be warned, ethanol will be more expensive and won't produce as much power either.
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  #6  
Old 01-26-2007
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Talk To D. In my Opinion it's not worth it unless you do it like D. does. Unless you like horrible Gas mileage (My mom Gets 11 on E85 and 30 on Gasoline in here taurus) Also be aware that Ehtanol hasn't recieved the UL stamp of approval as it being safe for an internal combustion engine.

~HJ
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  #7  
Old 01-26-2007
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you will indeed need the ffv fuel lines and such as they are more durable to withstand the more corrosive nature of E85.
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  #8  
Old 01-26-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolla_guy72
well the only difference between the ethanol and gasoline is that the ethanol is not as dense as the gasline, and the atomic makeup is only slightly different. So all you really need is new injectors, a pump, and you'll have to play with your timing.

But, be warned, ethanol will be more expensive and won't produce as much power either.
i believe there's more to it than that. I'm pretty sure the ECU would need to be changed as well. There used to be sensors that determined the ethanol %, and the ECU would make adjustments to timing and injector pulse width appropriately. I think it is done differently now in that the ECU looks for a 'refill event', then proceeds to monitor A/F ratios from the oxygen sensors to determine ethanol content and adjust accordingly.

Assuming you had a flex fuel vehicle, you WOULD actually gain a few hp because youre cramming more air and fuel into the engine (ethanol has a higher oxygen content than gasoline, so more of it is required to achieve a correct A/F balance. The side-effect of this is a *very small* gain in power, at the cost of poorer fuel economy.) If you were to take 1 ounce of gasoline and 1 ounce of ethanol, there is more energy in the gasoline.

Last edited by barrman; 01-26-2007 at 03:35 PM.
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  #9  
Old 01-26-2007
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you're correct on the sensor thing; I believe in 01+ it is entirely ECU controlled.. my 2000 has the "flex fuel sensor" which I had to have replaced at around 40k miles for $500 at the dealer- ethanol has never been in my truck, so I was kinda pissed off about that.
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  #10  
Old 01-26-2007
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also the moutaineer has flex fuel...
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  #11  
Old 01-26-2007
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my 04 trac has flexfuel


someday ill try it out
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2007
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Originally Posted by rolla_guy72
But, be warned, ethanol will be more expensive and won't produce as much power either.
Not true at all. I found ethanol to have a higher oxygen content then gas and honestly.. MORE power. FMD was in my truck when I chased down a Beemer on a local thruway. He thought I was on the bottle till he noticed it wasn't even in the truck.

Pump gas /87 was about 2.75$/gal when I participated in testing in my area. Ethanol was 1.85$ for the testingn purposes. Ethanol stations havent opened in nthe area ( 7 refineries are being built in NewYork right now ) but word on the street, after subsadies and production runs are established, E85 will go for about 2$/Gal initially.

NYS carries a 68 cent per gallon TAX and is only second to Cali in nprice for being expensive. Its the taxes making it expensive here.

As for what I used to run E85..

The whole fuel system from an 04 flex fuel Exploder. Fuel rails, injectors, pump and lines. I picked it all up for under 100$ and it took me a while to put it in as I had to remove the return-style fuel system I had installed for running a bottle. It was all a DIRECT bolt in except for one small part in the line, I had to extend it 2 inches. I had a local dyno place flash the factory ECC5 unit ( 20$/case of beer/favor type deal ).

The Moment Ethanol hits the market, I won't buy gas except for my Quad and Lawnmower. Sandman can go to hell before I buy his ' Black Gold '.

I averaged about 15miles per gallon. I was used to 13mph with a performance setting on my old setup ( gas/93 ). To me, it seemed better, to others, it might seem like a loss.

I believe within the next 10 years, there will be a lot of ethanol/bio-diesel equipped vehicals on the market. Hybrids don't work too well in the salt and cold up north here as the batteries tend to discharge.

Last edited by D.; 01-27-2007 at 02:05 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2007
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Well... nevermind then...lol. Unfortnuately I don't think we'll ever see Ethanol in FL because we don't even have inspections or smog laws here.
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  #14  
Old 01-28-2007
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I wish my 4.0 was E-85 ready. The price differnce is big. Even if my MPG went down some, I would still be money ahead.

Now I will tell you whats going on here in good 'old Iowa. We are a corn producing state. Also, there are ethanol plants going up in almost every county. Right now most pump stations offer a 10% blend of ethanol along with regular petro. On the other hand, 100% of Minnesota fuel contains ethanol or boi-diesel.

Due to the high demand and high expected demand of corn due to increased ethanol use, corn is around $3.50-$4.00 per bushel. Most of the time it's around $2.00. We need X million bushels of corn for next year . Many of my customers are going 100% corn for 2007. Due to high prices, we are selling crap loads of new tractors and combines because many farmers are getting rich. Farmers hate paying taxes, so they buy new stuff whenever they can as a write off. Wish I could do that.

This ethanol boom is creating lots of new jobs and the farmers love it. As long as corn doesn't go too much higher say $5.00, it will keep growing.

E-85 is great, but there are too few pumps that sell it right now. I tip my hat to Chevy for going all-out on flex-fuel, the rest have and will follow.

Did you guys like paying $3.00+ for a gallon of gas? I didn't. As a country we drive way to much with gas-sucking SUV's and trucks. I just got back from Germany. They have no trucks. Everyone drives little cars. After the conversion, their gas costs about $5.00 per gallon.

Everyone has their own opinion on stuff like this and thats OK. But beings how the big oil companies control the price of oil which drives our economy, we might as well start making are own fuel.
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  #15  
Old 01-28-2007
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Adam.. Your gonna make me cry. I'm thinking we might be of the same genetic code or long lost cousins.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2007
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Yep, I found the full fuel system at a local yard. I knew the guy so he told me to take what I needed and we can settle up later. But right now, E85 is about the same price as 87.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2007
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Not here in NY, E85 is almost a buck cheaper. Lousy liberal state with high tax and gas prices.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2007
D.
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Originally Posted by sambob117
Not here in NY, E85 is almost a buck cheaper. Lousy liberal state with high tax and gas prices.
Mate..

The Ethanol in our pumps right now is State Suplimented. They did a 3 month report on its ' econemy ' and impact and they wounnd up moving the study to other counties. Basically, over the next year, they are checking the ' demand ' to see which markets will yield the most sales/usage.

My truck was used as part of the study and I was allowed to buy Ethanol twice a week in a 2hr timeframe at the Troopers post off I90. They would bring in a Tanker truck and we weould all check our milage and fill our tanks. The study included temperatures and elevation considerations as well ( Our state has the Appalachian MTNS as well ) .

Its Alledged Ethanol will run about 2$ a Gallon when the 7 refineries in our state go online this summer. I'm waiting in high anticipation for that date so I can tell the Arabs and South Americans where they can put their ' black gold '.

People believe oil drives our market. It has some impact, but when our Agriculture Industry and plant operators start this nnew market going and we don't need to worry about a pipeling in sandmans land anymore.. The price of a barrel of oil will crash abnd our econemy will gain even more strength.

We need to bring our manufacturing base back as well. Hopefully with Hydro and Renewable energies abound, companies will see this nation ( and our state! ) as a good place to put up mills/factories again.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2007
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^^Amen :)
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  #20  
Old 02-01-2007
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sucks for the marine industry
%15 ethanol in the gas here in New Jersey has given the death knell to my 1984 Bertram
the 23 year old motors will blow up soon enough and don't get me started on the 135 fiberglass fuel tank that is also doomed
my options are
1. use it till the engines blow or the fuel tank fails - free
2. install new gas engines and replace the fuel tank - $22K
3. install new diesel engines and leave the fuel tank alone (they say %15 ethanol in diesel within 2 years though....) - $52K
4. drive to Vermont or Maine where they sell good old fuel with no ethanol - time and money....

I wonder how much fuel I can carry in the back of the Ranger and what is the cheapest container I can safely transport it in back to New Jersey.......
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  #21  
Old 02-01-2007
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Me and D. Will disagree on this but Oh well, Here it is. Ethanol is not the answer! Non of the benefits you are looking for as a consumer and as an amercian Exist. UL (Underwriters labs) will not certify it as safe for and internal conbustion engine, Pipe line, or even a Gas pump. It cost as much if not more in energy output than it creates. It actually will hurt farmers if the demand for Corn goes up to the point that Feed will be out of Reach. It costs more per gallon (Unsubsidized) than a gallon of gasoline and it does next to nothing to end the dependance on foreign oil. Right now in MN E85 is about 1.80 a Gallon with a Subsidized per gallon of 60Cents (Roughly) that puts it at 2.40 a gallon unsubsidized, now add the 39 cent Gas tax (one of the few taxes I support, it goes to roads, think user fee) and it is 2.79 a gallon when regular gas is 1.98 this morning. E85 is a myth, it is like car alarms, it just makes you feel good, it does nothing to solve the problem. If E85 is really the answer take away the subsidies and let it compete on the market and see how many plants open up.

http://www.alumni.umn.edu/Corn_Wont_...he_Planet.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...063001480.html

~HJ

Last edited by HAZZARDJOHN; 02-01-2007 at 09:34 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-04-2007
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John....I agree with some of the stuff you said, but not all. What should we do, just lie down and let BIG OIL continue to rule the world until we someday run out of oil and be $hit out of luck?

BTW....ethanol can and will be made out of other products besides corn. I have a few customers who grow switch grass and millet that work great for making ethanol.

I guess my point is why not support it? Do you have any better idea on making fuel that can grow it self back? It took millions of years to make the oil thats in the ground right now, and it will never come back once gone. Until someone makes an engine that runs on BULL $HIT, we better keep looking for an alternitive.
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  #23  
Old 02-04-2007
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Originally Posted by HAZZARDJOHN
Me and D. Will disagree on this but Oh well, Here it is. Ethanol is not the answer!
No we might agree more then you think.

Its not the ' answer ', its the COMPETITION! With no threat to the market, gas companies can charge per gallon whatever they want.

Quote:
Non of the benefits you are looking for as a consumer and as an amercian Exist.
So they make ethanol in arab lands now too? They employ my neighbors as well? Wow, They don't even have a ' tan ' from all that sunshine over there .


Quote:
E85 is a myth, it is like car alarms, it just makes you feel good,
No, it fuels my vehical and rather nicely at that. *I* believe it burned BETTER then gasoline. I can guarentee it sure FELT like it had more power as well.

Quote:
it does nothing to solve the problem.
Then don't buy it. Leave more out there for me to buy.

Quote:
If E85 is really the answer take away the subsidies and let it compete on the market and see how many plants open up.
Whole Heartedly agreed. Lets also take away all subsidies tro the Oil industry as well, make it a fair playing field.
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  #24  
Old 02-04-2007
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From what I have Read, Sugarcane makes a LOT of ethanol per acre of land. Tripple what corn does. Bio-diesel also is an alternative to use while getting away from ' petroleum products '.

HJ - Like it or not, this is a stepping stone to getting away from dependency on another lands products. It needs to be done. Renewable energies are a great thing.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2007
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D. I think you miss the point, Their is absolutley no way that Ethanol can possibly take away from the oil industry without wrecking our way of life. If 100% of our farmable land was levelled and we grew cron we wouldn't make a dent in it. It pollutes more, It costs more to manufacture and it does nothing to stop you from supplying the terrorists. If we all switched to E85 tomorrow, ten years, or half a century, We would have gas lines and shortages. Farm prices would go through the roof, their woul dbe no habitiat for our animals, Farmers wouldn't be able to buy feed for their cattle. It is unsafe for an internal combustion engine according the the UL.and the economy will tank. For what? Nothing. You NEED to look elsewhere. This is a Big waste of time and resources that could be better spent elsewhere. Now D. I think you would know better, but the oil industry hasa enoough sources of oil off the gulf, ANWR and various other places to Give us fifty years of oil even adjusted for the growth of this country. You are blind on this subject D. You are loooking at this from the wrong light. We are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist. Ehtanol Takes more energy to make it than it produces therefore while you are feeling alll happy about your "not taking a drop of foreign oil you are just plain wrong. You are using more oil than I am buy using E85 and contributing more to pollution terrorism and all the things you are pissing away your money on to prevent.

Also since the oil industy is something that no politician wants to be in bed on explain to me how they are getting price controlling subsidies? You know the kind that Ethanol gets to the tune of Billio5ns of dollars a year? Like I said you take away the subsidy in this state and E85 is a Ripp off, you add the highway taxes and No one will buy it as it will be approaching $3.00 a gallon at a time when Gas is hovering around $2.00. Your sugar cane theory doesn't hold water either, because our and every other country in the worlds Sugar cane output used solely for Ethanol will not support our needs.

I think Renewable energy is a great thing, When it makes sense, but here, it doesn't nort does it in wind power, or solar power. not sure you know how they make Biodiesel but you add that to the mix and ehtanol will be even more scrrewed than it is now.

~HJ
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