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8-Cylinder Tech If you are one of the few with a V8 engine in your Ranger, or if you dream of a Ranger with a V8 engine, this is the sub-forum for you.

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  #301  
Old 08-21-2011
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Idk if it is pats or not. I thought the injectors wouldn't get power if the pats was not disabled. I haven't got to work on it any today, should get to a little bit later tonight. I need to figure out why it quit cranking first, then try and figure out why the fuel pump won't run.
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  #302  
Old 08-21-2011
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I wonder if it could be the gem.
When I turn the ignition to try and start it, the lights go out in the cab and I hear a click.

Found this link where this guy has my exact symptoms and ended up getting a new gem.
http://www.automotivehelper.com/topic907465.htm
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  #303  
Old 08-21-2011
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yours cranks but doesn't start still?

mine didn't even crank, it would just shut lights off and click.

thats when i gave up and put a push button starter, everything still works as it should, not sure what else the GEM controls though.

if you turn your Key to the ON position, go underneath the truck and take a screw driver and jump the starter and see if it turns over and starts. otherwise something could be wrong with the starter/wires back to all that confusing computer stuffs.
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  #304  
Old 08-21-2011
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I looked at the schematics and I don't see any way that the GEM has anything to do with the starter.

Have you rewired the dark blue/orange wire from the starter relay to ground? In the factory 99 V6 wiring, that ground was supplied by the PATS Module. If you've disabled PATS, then it can't supply the ground for the relay.
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  #305  
Old 08-21-2011
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woahhhhh, what was that Bob?? That might explain a lot. Where is this wire at??

But I still don't understand how it would work one day, then not the next.
I can manually make it work, by giving power to the yellow/lt blue wire that goes to a connector in the battery harness by the master cylinder.
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  #306  
Old 08-21-2011
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The starter relay coil has 2 requirements before it will energize - voltage is available from dash fuse 24 by way of the starter interlock switch to one side of the coil and ground must be provided to the other side of the coil. Originally, your V6 relay ground was provided by the PATS Module when it was OK to allow starting. A 99 4-cylinder does not have PATS so it runs that wire straight to chassis ground instead.

So, with PATS disabled, I think that your DB/OR needs to go to chassis ground. The original factory wire runs from the Distribution box, through the large firewall connector into the interior to the PATS Module.
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  #307  
Old 08-21-2011
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Okay, I'll add ground to that wire later tonight and let you know how it goes.

Thanks so much for that Bob.
Do you agree that since my injectors are getting 12v that my pats is disabled??
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  #308  
Old 08-21-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRacer View Post
Do you agree that since my injectors are getting 12v that my pats is disabled??
Not necessarily. The 12V side of the injectors is always powered when the key is on regardless of what PATS does. Ground is provided by the PCM to each injector individually to fire it for the correct amount of time. PATS tells the PCM when it's OK to allow injector operation.
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  #309  
Old 08-21-2011
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So is there anyway I could possibly check to see if pats is disabled??

I don't want to keep laying the blame on my tuner It could be a mechanical mistake or lectrical.
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  #310  
Old 08-21-2011
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I found a db/or wire going to the distribution box, not sure if it was the right one, but it was already a ground and I got the ol lady to try and crank the truck and it stayed a ground.
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  #311  
Old 08-21-2011
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I only have the diagram to go by and it says that the DB/OR wire from the relay is not grounded unless the PATS Module grounds it. Maybe there's more than one of that color code from the Dist box. You could try a continuity check from the wire you're looking at to the relay pin to see if it's the right one.
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  #312  
Old 08-21-2011
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I'll have to look for another DB/OR wire. I appreciate all the help buddy. Any idea why the fuel pump wouldn't run on it's own???
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  #313  
Old 08-22-2011
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Okay, I went over to Benjy's after work and we talked for a while. I told him everything that was going on and he gave me a bunch of ideas. First for the starter, he said tighten the battery terminals. Then he said there is definately an electrical issue since the IAC is running when I turn the key on. So if anyone knows how to fix that problem, please inform me. Bob, could you explain in more detail where those grounds are on the innner fender apron's. I never found them. Going out right now to get the haynes book and try tightening the battery terminal up.
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  #314  
Old 08-23-2011
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Originally Posted by JRacer View Post
Bob, could you explain in more detail where those grounds are on the innner fender apron's. I never found them.
Both are bolted to the vertical inner fender apron just inside where the hood closes down over the fender flanges. DS is between the battery and the Distribution Box. PS is near the cruise control servo and washer reservoir.
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  #315  
Old 08-23-2011
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Okay, thanks Bob.

Enough with the BS though. Starting back at square one. I think this computer is fried. The obdII scanner won't read the codes. Going to the local yards on sunday and going to see how lucky I can get and see if I can find a computer with matching key and pats stuff.

If I do find one, what all do i need for the pats, where is it all located at?

Thanks guys.
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  #316  
Old 08-23-2011
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All I swapped for the pats is (not sure of technical terms):

-The lock and tumble itself
-The wiring that goes from the lock and tumble back the steering column 5 or 6 inches to a white (I think) connector
-The pats component behind the passenger side air bag, held in by I THINK 2 11mm screws

My memory isn't the greatest but I'm pretty sure thats all that I swapped to make it work. I never had a pats related issue after swapping those compents.
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  #317  
Old 08-24-2011
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Im kinda jumping in here (skimming through), so correct me if I'm adding something that doesn't correspond to what is being said.

When I added a PATS enabled harness to my non PATS truck, to ground the starter relay I just jumped two pins of the pats connector. This is essentially what the PATS does.

Pin 1 (DB/OG) to pin 7 (BK/WH)
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  #318  
Old 08-24-2011
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Thanks for that Tyler. Even if i found a pats and computer, I know somebody who knows somebody that can program two blank keys to work with it. :)
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  #319  
Old 08-24-2011
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There is a v8 x at a you pull it yard like 5 minutes from me, not sure what year it is. Worst case senario I can grab the stuff for ya and you can have it for what I pay for it, plus shipping of course.
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  #320  
Old 08-25-2011
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That sounds good man, I'll pm you if I can't find anything. I'm going to go sunday right after church so I will let you know if I couldn't find anything. But btwn pull-a-part and LKQ I should definately find something. I really appreciate the help though and like i said I will let you know if I can't find one.
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  #321  
Old 08-28-2011
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I know it is pointless until yall see a video, but it runs!!!!!

Huge thanks to Tyler and Bob for helping me out. I went to the JY today and found a 98 explorer v8 and took the pcm, key, and pats stuff and she started right up. It's idling high, but it is probably in safe mode since there is no tune on it yet. I'll post a vid later tonight.

Thanks guys
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  #322  
Old 08-28-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRacer View Post
98 explorer v8 and took the pcm, key, and pats stuff
There will be some issues using the 98 Ex PCM.

It is not compatible with the 99 Cam Position Sensor.

The PCM is calibrated for 30~40 PSI variable fuel pressure in the 98 Ex but the 99 Ranger/Mazda puts out a constant 65 PSI except for the 3.0 FFVs which are regulated to 55 PSI.

A 99~01 Ex 5.0 PCM would have been the right choice.
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  #323  
Old 08-28-2011
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hmmm, I knew there would be a catch. lol Well i'm swapping to a return style fuel system and putting a cell in the bed of the truck, so the fuel shouldn't be an issue. How can I get around the CPS?? It seems to run fine, just idles high. I don't hear it missing or anything...

Thanks Bob

EDIT:I did try to find a 99-01 as I knew there were some differences, but this is all they had within 50 miles so I snagged it up.
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  #324  
Old 08-29-2011
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The incorrect CMP will get you a CEL and may cause hesitation problems.

The earlier 3-wire CMP Sensor needs 2 new wires run, one to power (red) and one to chassis ground (black/white). Both of those color codes are already present and ready to be tapped elsewhere in the 99+ engine harness.

If your plan is to run a return fuel system, then the 98 PCM is better. You'll need a 96~98 fuel rail/regulator assembly and 19# injectors in place of the 17's used in 99+.
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  #325  
Old 08-29-2011
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Excellent, atleast it runs! Thats a step in the right direction. Bob is gonna be more help then I am on the cam sensor wiring and whatnot. Attaboy for getting it running.
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