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  #1  
Old 12-11-2006
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8's vs. 12's

I currently have two 8's with 200 watts going to each sub. I am going to go with two 12's pretty soon here which have the same exact power ratings. How big of a difference should I expect to get in loudness, quality, etc? They are the same subs I have now, but in the larger diameter of 12" vs. those tiny 8" subs. I don't feel like investing any more money in my sysytem which is why I am going with these subs, plus one of my eights might be cracked and just doesn't sound the same anymore. Thanks.
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Old 12-11-2006
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in my opinion, the 12's will hit better notes and make the music sound better. itll hit lower notes than the 8's, and probably a little ***** louder. what 12's are you looking at?
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Old 12-11-2006
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Old 12-11-2006
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8s will recover faster than 12s.. 12s will hit the lower notes, but in my opinion 8s are real good if you just want a lil more bass and sound qaulity.. which is why im going with 4 8"s lol
if the box is not the right specs for the 8s(or any sub) they wont reach their full potential. if ya dont want to invest more money into your system, just stick with the 8s and build a ported box for them to make them a bit louder.. mdf will only cost ya 20bux for a sheet of 3/4"
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Old 12-11-2006
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i suggest get them downfiring and get the box made professionally. i had mine done by one of the best places in houston and it sounds so sick. the box is so important
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Old 12-12-2006
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Why jump from 8's to 12's? Thats a pretty big jump. There's a huge difference between them. Why not go to 10's? Then you get both the low bass and the high bass.(if that makes sense)
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Old 12-12-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvrenufedge
Why jump from 8's to 12's? Thats a pretty big jump. There's a huge difference between them. Why not go to 10's? Then you get both the low bass and the high bass.(if that makes sense)
I would definitely prefer some 10s, but I already have a dual 12 inch enclosure sitting in my garage. Like I said, I want to keep the price as low as possible. I was happy with my 8s, but I could use a little more bass, which is why I am sticking with the same brand and model(P2 rockford fosgates). I know a lot of you probably don't prefer this sub, but it is plenty for me and works with my existing amp. it will only cost me about $180 bucks to purchase these subs, and I already have the enclosure and don't have to pay for installation. I just hope that I will get more bass then what I currently have. Either way, i still have to replace my broken 8. Thanks for the help everyone.
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Old 12-12-2006
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Don't get me wrong, I am all for the options you guys gave me and thank you for those, it's just that I don't have the time or skills to build myself a box, and why not put to use the enclosure that is sitting in my garage. A downside of the twelves is that my whole xtra cab is going to be taken by the enclosure, but I don't make use of it anyways, so it's not too bad for me. Thanks again.
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Old 12-12-2006
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I agree with a lot said here, but I'll summarize my thoughts:

1. 8's and 12's can be made with the same frequency response, but the 12's will be more efficient at the very lowest frequencies in particular.

2. Like urandaman said, 8's are lower mass and can technically be more "accurate" in terms of their response to the signal. With a good amp and enclosure this often shows up most as a good "damping factor" overall -- in other words "tighter" bass. A mass which cannot be properly controlled by the source signal or mechanical/acoustic systems will "ring" to a stop when hit with an impulse -- sloppy in other words. It takes a better mechanical/acoustic design and and amp which can source/sink power effectively and quickly to control bigger speakers.

3. What are your design goals? More volume? Better quality of sound? Both? Using an existing enclosure that was primarily designed for one or the other won't necessarily make you happy if you were looking for the other.

4. "Quality of Life" issues: you say you don't make use of the back of the cab, but taking up all that space might eventually get on your nerves, lol.

5. Engineering: Following up on urandaman again -- a box is not a box is not a box. If it's not designed for the sub, AND designed for the end goal (loudness, quality, frequency range, etc) then you won't necessarily get what you want out of it.

It's hard for anyone to accurately answer your question unless you can define what you're trying to achieve and exactly what you've got to achieve it with. Not that folks won't give you answers anyway -- but they are by definition going to be so generalized as to be useless.
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Old 12-12-2006
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whoops
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Old 12-12-2006
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Old 12-12-2006
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
3. What are your design goals? More volume? Better quality of sound? Both? Using an existing enclosure that was primarily designed for one or the other won't necessarily make you happy if you were looking for the other.
4. "Quality of Life" issues: you say you don't make use of the back of the cab, but taking up all that space might eventually get on your nerves, lol.
5. Engineering: Following up on urandaman again -- a box is not a box is not a box. If it's not designed for the sub, AND designed for the end goal (loudness, quality, frequency range, etc) then you won't necessarily get what you want out of it.
3. Basically I want a little more bass volume, and at this point I'm not too concerned with SQ. The enclosure I might use is designed for JL subs(JL powerwedge). I don't know how this might affect the subs I want to run. I don't want the subs to hit seriously loud. I just need some low end bass to fill out the truck. I don't want to comlicate this too much. I am definitely going to run my current amp(RF p3001, which puts out almost 400 watts.) This limits me to subs that can handle around 200 rms each.
4. Would the 12s be heavy enough for me too notice a loss in power and gas mileage? If not, it shouldn't bother me too much being back their considering my lack of everyday use for the xtracab.
5. I'm not expecting too much out of these subs, as they are low end to begin with. What I am expecting is that they hit as hard or maybe a little harder than my 8's. The box dimensions for the 12's seem to be within the cubic inch range, so I shouldn't have any problems right? If I were to keep the eights and go ported, would a local audio store(ex. Al and eds) be capable of building the box to give the subs their full potential? Considering my expectations and financial situation( dont want to spend more than $200) which option would be better for me? Thanks to all and sorry if this is extremely long.
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2006
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Sorry, ignore the blank posts.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2006
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Very good, better questions I think. I haven't done enclosure design for 25 years and my skills are "dated", lol -- but there are people on here who might be able to run with what you've given them.

Here's my guess though: generally, the 12's are going to be more efficient than the 8's for the low end -- so the 12's might be the way to go if you want louder. Now, if you have a "sensitivity" spec for the 8's you have vs. the 12's then that tells something of the story, minus the enclosure factors.

For instance: an 8 with an 85 db sensitivity, and a 12 with a 91 db sensitivity are quite different. Generally every 3 db represents a doubling of power, so the theoretical difference between the two is that the 12 could seem as much as 4 times louder.

Actually, between how your ears perceive things, and the final details of the enclosure with the speaker, it could seem like more or less.

But, a more sensitive speaker produces more acoustic power for every watt put into it. Pay attention to that spec in particular when you want more volume from a given amount of power.

In actual practice, the spec needs to be related to frequency to be useful, but it's a good reference to start with. Where it could bite you is that if both speakers are rated at say 80 hz, the 12 might be WAY more sensitive at 20 hz than the 8 so it can be misleading. Still useful though.

To my mind, if you have the speakers AND the enclosure already, it might be worth your while to just assemble it and try it. You've got nothing to lose but a little time, and everything to gain if you like the result.

Last edited by n3elz; 12-12-2006 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 12-12-2006
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Thanks, I don't know if this helps any, but here are the specs on both models.
8's
Sensitivity: 84 dB
RMS Power Range : 50-200 Watts
Peak Power Handling: 400 Watts
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Low Frequency response: 40 Hz
High Frequency Response: 250 Hz
Diameter: 8 Inch
12's
Sensitivity: 86 dB
RMS Power Range : 50-200 Watts
Peak Power Handling: 400 Watts
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Low Frequency response: 20 Hz
High Frequency Response: 200 Hz
Diameter: 12 Inch
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2006
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As you can see, their isn't much of a difference, at least not that I can see.
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2006
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2 db comes close to double the power. Not a bad increase. With the addition of decent enclosure it could sound like more. Definitely should hit the really low stuff harder, as everyone has said.

From 40 hz down to 20 hz response is full octave! That's more than you think. The difference is proportional to frequency, in this case 2 to 1.

Put it in context: it's like two tweeters where one goes to 8000 hz, and the other to 16000 hz. That's an octave at those frequencies -- they are quite different in sound!

What the hey, give it a try!
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  #19  
Old 12-12-2006
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Thanks, I will go wih those then.
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  #20  
Old 12-12-2006
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one last question. Would this sub be good competition with the P2? considering I only have around 400 watts to supply the subs with

Infinity reference 1240w
Sensitivity: 93 dB
RMS Power Range : 60-300 Watts
Peak Power Handling: 1000 Watts
Impedance: 4 Ohm
Low Frequency response: 23 Hz
High Frequency Response: 400 Hz
Diameter: 12 Inch

Last edited by 0sixsport; 12-12-2006 at 05:44 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-12-2006
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you could always just run 1 12" to get the increase in bass and lower notes, and since you wont be running 2 subs, you could direct all the amps power to the one sub and get something a little bit better... just a thought.. and since it doesnt seem like you want to crack your windows with outrageous bass, 1 12" would do ya just right, or get a 10" in a ported box to achieve the best of both worlds since the 10 can get the mid bass still and still reach the lows
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2006
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would my 380 watt amp be capable of pushing a single 10 kicker solobaric rated at 450 watts rms?
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