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  #1  
Old 11-18-2007
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Sub Box/Tuck Project

Ok, so I've been hinting at this one for a while now and I finally got a start on it this weekend. I ripped the drivers rear door pannel off (should'a done the other one now that I think about it since I have no seatbelt... brain fart, I suppose). I stared by making a few wood pieces that I could be braced into place that could later be fiberglassed in. The front panel and the front side seemed like the best choice. The rest will be glassed to keep as much airspace as possible.

(Side note: I've done two similar projects like this along with my Dad's guidance and advice, but on this one, I'm solo.)

So here goes:

First, I laid down some duct tape to serve as a boundary. (Good old duct tape, 1000 uses and counting...)




The two pieces were then cut. The odd shaped one fits on the right side of the duct box. (Took a picture, but the card/camera glitched and it didn't come out right.)



A little old-school compass trick that I learned from Dad many years back...



Both pieces mounted in for a test fit before glass work, but the I remembered, don't you have to fit those under something? Shouldn't you check that first?



Looks good. Tight, but good. (From this angle....)


D'oh!! Just a bit to tall at this point. Back to the drawing board.


Actually, I'm going to trim the front piece to hold only the speaker and then mount it in with glass to fit flush with the rest of the door. With any luck, I should juuuust be at .25 cu-ft of airspace.

Well, that's all for this point. Got some errands to run tomorrow (schools out for the week! Woo-Hoo!) and then back to the project.

I'll keep y'all posted.

-Chance
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  #2  
Old 11-19-2007
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so your putting a sub in the door?
would that rattel like....everything?
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  #3  
Old 11-19-2007
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Not if you do it right. Same basic design principle of Ford's JBL 8" in the rear panel. Isolate the enclosure from flexing material. The duct tape is not directly on the outer door panel. There is something underneath it to create a gap. That way when the box goes in, I put in a layer of foam rubber (or some other variant) between the box bottom and the outer panel to quell any vibrations. Also, around the mounting points, I usually put felt or something else between glass and metal to keep the shakes down. That and a lot of dynamat (or equivalent) probably would not be a bad idea.

These are 8s. I'm not having to overcome severe rattling like, say... this guy.

-Chance
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2007
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wow nice idea....Why not glass the whole thing instead of using the wood?

keep the pictures and progress coming...
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2007
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yah if you made an inner shell out of what you have in duct tape (basically as a mold) then once thats dry and you've added enough layers to it, make your front piece that could be flush with the door, fiberglass the 2 pieces together, add some more layers to make it thick enough to mount a sub in. cut your hole for the sub and bam its in. of course its easier said than done and theres obviously some more steps involved but it would fit much nicer and the door wouldnt have 20 extra lbs of wood in it.
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2007
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Actually, I would hesitate to call the building material wood. it's that cheap type of material that they build those cheap slap-together TV/ Entertainment center shelves with. I was also thinking about trimming the front piece down a lot and doing glass over most of the front, leaving the flat wood piece there to mount the sub. I've been completing other projects today so I haven't gotten back to it, but I'm going to start making a few adjustments here in a bit.

-C
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2007
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Your idea has a really nice start to it...i wouldnt have used such thick wood...i would of went with 1/8 inch sheet and glassed the hole thing in....belive me i have done these types of sub boxes in places they shouldnt be...when you use the resin it hardens every thing to be solid...i thought about that same project awhile back but the hole idea of any kind of speaker with good bass sitting behind that panel scared me with all the rattle....good luck with it...and like i said you have a good idea and a verry good start...
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2007
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I agree with the fiberglass idea, you should try making a fiberglass mould of that hole then when it's dry pop it out and add chop mat to it till it doesn't flex anywhere. 1-2 layers of chop mat will usually do it right.

Then go to walmart and purchase some stretchy fabric and stretch it over the hole and glass it up. It'll more than litkely be less than 1/8" thick in most places if not all.

Next, mark and cut a mounting hole for the speaker. If you want to reinforce it or flush-mount the speaker in the hole, you could make a mount for the speaker inside the hole with a ring and some supports (square-ish cuts of wood) and glue/staple them in, then lay your stretchy fabric over it.

Make sure you fill the enclosure with about 75% of polyfill or polyester pillow stuffing whichever you prefer.

I think I will consider this indefinitely when I start building a sound system. I already did an enclosure for a 15" behind the seat in my reg cab 03, but I'm only 5ft tall... haha.

Good luck with everything, I'll be watching this one.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2007
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Ok, the saga continues. I guess I forgot to mention that the ducttape is the boundary for glassing the box. I redesigned a couple things and will be going to glass tomorrow. Used a piece of cardboard to form the barrier on the one side.


Then, I cut the front panel down to a trim ring and test fit it in.


I'll probably go the stretchy fabric idea as well for the top cover after I pop out the mold and put down another layer.

It's getting there, one piece at a time.
Thanks for the encouragement and ideas!

-Chance

Edit - the one side will be trimmed down to be flush. (Forgot to mention that...)
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  #10  
Old 11-20-2007
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looks like a nice little project, i anticipate a good outcome. You should check out this fiberglass forum i'm part of: www.fiberglassforums.com Its a great community and you can learn a lot about glassing and overall fab, i know i have. good luck man!
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  #11  
Old 11-20-2007
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Fiberglass box: ROUND 1

Round 1:

Project: 1
Chance: 0

I trimmed up the template to how I wanted it.


So then I started with the glasswork. (Did I mention this is a real pain to do when gravity is in full effect and it's a vertical project?) The glass went in ok, but turned into a real mess real fast. Didn't lay down to smoothly due to the gravity factor, so I thought that when I get it out, I can clean it up. That proved to be the hard part since the tape allowed the glass to flex inward so the box ended up being a liiiitle larger than the hole. After a few moments of pulling, swearing and general "Why did I decide to do this?" comments, I got it out and this is what I had:



So, I've come up with three options..
1. Cut the box into quarters (center top-bottom and center left-right) and remove a little extra to narrow it, then piece it together a little narrower and shorter so that it will fit. Cleanup the drip parts, smooth everything out and do another layer of glass... on a horizontal playing field this time, and add the flat surface that will be needed to glass the top and mounting areas.

2. Fill it with great stuff foam and create another mold that I can glass over. This one seems a little more labor intensive and time consuming.

3. Create a frame that I can wrap stretchy fabric over and glass to use as a basis and go from there. Seems like a lot of work as well.

Well, let me know what you think. I'm heading out to take care of some other things while the glass hardens and I decide what to do.

-Chance
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2007
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nice start! i like the idea.......
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2007
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i say make a mold of it, then trim it down a little bit so it will fit better. if you make the mold, you can then make the enclosures for other people. what kind of internal cu ft are you gonna get?
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2007
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hmmmmm.... looks like you started out with the uber messy chop mat first??? Why don't you try the woven fabric fiberglass.

What you do is cut a piece that's plenty large enough for the entire shape. Mix the resin kinda hot, so that it dries a little faster and doesn't sag/slouch much. Then start from the center of the bottom/back and work your way out. Then, when that is dry it shouldn't have sagged that much, if it is drying fast enough.

If that doesn't work... try removing the door (with a friend, they're very heavy!) and glassing it that way or making a foam mold, which may work best.
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2007
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it actually looks like you could use MDF for most of the interior pieces. They look to be flat, just slightly odd shapes. I would build as much of the interior out of MDF as i could, its stiffer than glass over flat areas (less flex) and then all you have to glass is stretch and glass the front with the ring.
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  #16  
Old 11-21-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bumpncarstereo
i say make a mold of it, then trim it down a little bit so it will fit better. if you make the mold, you can then make the enclosures for other people. what kind of internal cu ft are you gonna get?
That's not too bad of an idea, making it for others. If I calculated correctly, I should get just a hair over .25 cu. ft. That should work for any small sealed 8". (Originally planned to get two Punch Stage 1s, but these were dropped in my lap free.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolla_guy72
hmmmmm.... looks like you started out with the uber messy chop mat first??? Why don't you try the woven fabric fiberglass.

What you do is cut a piece that's plenty large enough for the entire shape. Mix the resin kinda hot, so that it dries a little faster and doesn't sag/slouch much. Then start from the center of the bottom/back and work your way out. Then, when that is dry it shouldn't have sagged that much, if it is drying fast enough.

If that doesn't work... try removing the door (with a friend, they're very heavy!) and glassing it that way or making a foam mold, which may work best.
Yup. Ultra messy. I have the cloth style now. Taking the door off would help with the dripping issue too, but I don't want to go that far. If I did this for a living, I would most likely buy two JY doors or something like that, but since it's only one set, I see no need for that outlay of cash. I may try the foam mold idea with the first fiber-mold I created and see where that leads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone-Ranger
it actually looks like you could use MDF for most of the interior pieces. They look to be flat, just slightly odd shapes. I would build as much of the interior out of MDF as i could, its stiffer than glass over flat areas (less flex) and then all you have to glass is stretch and glass the front with the ring.
True, but if I used MDF, it would cut down the amount of available airspace that I would get if I went with glass. The flat parts aren't that big, so this should do ok.

I've also contemplated bracing the sides with card board and taping them up so the sides are stiffer when I glass, which was a problem since they flexed so much and it was tough to dab anything on. That seems like the easiest option. Then, when I take the tape off, I can save it and re-use the template if others want one. I think I will give that a shot on Friday when I get back from T-day at my folks house.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and assistance. I think everyone will have a hand in this project before it's over. :)

If I don't post again before then, Have a Great Thanksgiving Day, everyone!

-Chance
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2007
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How!?!?!?

HOW? How could I have forgotten about that wonderful staple of fabrication? That tool that is part of every package and box? How could I have forgotten about... CARDBOARD?!?!

Ok, enough with the dramatics. I went outside today and saw a few old boxes that I was setting aside. Then I remember what I had mentioned previously about using cardboard, so I got inventive.... And this is the result.



The only thing I have to do now is to re-tape the part on the door panel since it cannot be taped on after being smeared with petroleum jelly. Such is life. Anyway, I need to put the door back together so we can go to my folks house, but I'll be working again on Friday afternoon.

The best part about this is that if I take out the cardboard and reverse it, BINGO! I can use it on the other door with a few small modifications. Not too shabby. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Happy Thanksgiving, All!

-Chance
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2007
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nice!
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2007
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I actually thought about that last night after I got off the comp, but yeah there you go, good job!

Good luck, too!
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2007
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i didnt read this just looked but from what i saw,your going to be better off cutting your door panel and building the box off of that instead of in the door and moutning it to the door. and you dont look like you have enough air space either.
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  #21  
Old 11-21-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lone-Ranger
it actually looks like you could use MDF for most of the interior pieces. They look to be flat, just slightly odd shapes. I would build as much of the interior out of MDF as i could, its stiffer than glass over flat areas (less flex) and then all you have to glass is stretch and glass the front with the ring.
i was thinking the same thing
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  #22  
Old 11-23-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholoff
i didnt read this just looked but from what i saw,your going to be better off cutting your door panel and building the box off of that instead of in the door and moutning it to the door. and you dont look like you have enough air space either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me
If I calculated correctly, I should get just a hair over .25 cu. ft. That should work for any small sealed 8".
I'm not one for hacking my door panel. I like the complete stock/stealth look and a hacked door panel just seems to go against that idea. Only way people could tell there's anything in there (in the way of a sound system) is the box on the rear floor, but it comes in VERY handy when loading objects by providing a level area to put stuff on.
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  #23  
Old 11-24-2007
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Missed it by THAT much....

Ok, after having the box harden overnight (it was cool out...) I found a slight fold in the upper corner. I straightened it out and glassed in another layer. I still couldn't figure out what it was at first until I tried test fitting the box and closing the door..... Door holder/slider.... Oops... Well, I hacked out a piece so the slider could go through and then glassed in a space for it to fit. I'm waiting for it to dry as we speak. (Can you tell I don't give up easy?)




Oh well. I also glassed in the second layer for the outside surface area so i should be ready to glass in the top pretty soon.

Hope everyone had a great T-day!

-Chance
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  #24  
Old 11-24-2007
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Alright, the top is covered. First, it got an old T-shirt with resin, then a layer of chop mat/resin when that dried. Now, I'm waiting for it to dry and then I can trim everything down and test fit it and start adding the foam and dampening stuff to keep it from shaking everything.




I think it should be in and testing sometime tomorrow. (Not counting any unforeseen mishaps...)

-Chance
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  #25  
Old 11-24-2007
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looking good, it is a bit to cold for glassing up north, so i will glass vicariously thru you :)
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