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Drivetrain Tech General discussion of drivetrain for the Ford Ranger.

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  #51  
Old 04-20-2005
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honestly, i was kinda dissapointed when i got an auto (I got a deal so i really didnt care ) But now i like it. I get my kicks with a manual in my parents Miata and Vette. I expecally love the vette cuz i can lay rubber in all gears
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  #52  
Old 04-20-2005
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Wooo, if only we debated important issues like Social Security or Tax Reform as fervently and with as much vigor as we are debating the Auto vs Manual I WOULDN'T want to be a politician...anyway I'm glad to see some interesting info coming out in this discussion of Manual vs Auto tranny...OH and to address how this started...I read something in a related forum where the auto vs manual transmission was an integral part of that discussion as well...SO I just asked a question with regards to that :)

OH and if you want to start the Tax Reform or Social Security debate I'd be glad to start a dedicated forum...(sigh)
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  #53  
Old 04-20-2005
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Even more funny if you arent on the throttle a certain amount (1/3? maybe)
It skips the "new" second gear and shifts 1 to 3
If you are accel. hard it shifts 1-2-3-4-5. 2 being the "new" gear
i believe 2= 1.88:1, 3 1.44:1, 4 1:1,5 .75:1 and of course at low speed
you have the torque multiplication of the torque converter.

if you put the gear selector in:
1 it stays in 1 TC wont lock
2 stays in 3 TC WILL lock
D shifts through 1-2-3-4-5 as explained above unless
you lock the OD off.
I found 4x4 low in 2 is pretty nice compromise lower than 1 in 4x4 high.
Rand
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  #54  
Old 04-20-2005
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I usually leave it in 2 on the rare occasion I put it in 4x4 low myself
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  #55  
Old 04-20-2005
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4x4low 1st is kinda scary.. i bet if i slammed the gas and had traction I would
break stuff... it just slams you into your seat until you hit like 8mph lol
and then if you take your foot off the gas.. the engine slowing down SLAMS you the other direction

Rand

Last edited by Rand; 04-21-2005 at 12:04 AM.
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  #56  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
I call Bull**** on that. Well, I'm the second person to.. still you're obviously making that up. I'd love to see a dyno proving that. Not that it'd be possible to do w/o using about 10 auto trucks of same type and 10 manual trucks of same type, each using different size engines. Take an auto class, maybe you'd learn something. Actually, take a debate class, you threw out a strawman argument with no evidence.

Aaron

(Ok i realize this was really attacking, buts its 11:30, forgive me i like my sleep.)
I am making up nothing. Its a fact. You seem to love calling BS, even when you cleary have no real education pertaining to the currently debated subject. Why am I "obviously" making up anything? Perhaps, you being Mr. Autoclass could educate a BS'er like me on the internal workings of both transmissions of both variants, auto and manual. Oh, wait, I guess you really can't because if you knew how they worked you wouldn't have made an ignorant post like you did...

Dynos prove little. We could put two identical Rangers on a dyno and the RWHP figures could vary between the two based on many, many different factors besides transmission type BUT two comparable trucks, with only different transmissions will always yield you a higher RWHP to the truck with the manual. Explain to me how an automatic transmission can transfer EQUAL OR BETTER horsepower to the rear wheels than a manual transmission... Please, enlighten me...

You want to talk about lack of evidence? Do some research, and show ME some evidence. I would have thought anyone on here with a little automotive knowledge would know that manual >automatic in terms of RWHP. Quite frankly, I think your an idiot that likes to argue. Makes me wonder what they're putting in the water up there in BFE Alaska...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
I was calling be on the 7% figure not that automatics have a higher driveline loss.

I saw a dyno of a 4x4 automatic ranger it was 165hp peak (dont have the dyno handy) the manual 4x4 was 172... hardly 7%

Now if you compare say a 3L 4x4 vs a 3L 4x2 I am sure its more than 7% diff.

But anyway its bs unless you have dyno sheets to prove it as far as I'm concerned. Its more like 3-5% depending on options
Automatics DO have a higher loss of power through parasitic drag and heat. 7% may not always be true, but whether its 2% or 10% the auto will always produce less RWHP. 7 HP from your sample dyno readings could come from anywhere. Many Dynos aren't accurate within a few hp and for all we know the auto could have been a 25,000 mile motor thats been meticulously maintained vs. a 150,000 mile motor with a manual thats been stomped on its whole life. You want to call BS, and exclaim there is no evidence proving manual>auto RWHP yet you can't seem to show me any evidence proving it to be the opposite, can you?
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  #57  
Old 04-21-2005
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Why would I have to provide evidence you are the one who pulled the 7%
figure out of your butt. I agree with most of the points in your above post..
so how did you arrive at 7% if dyno's arent accurate.. and you pointed to dynos
to support your 7% ?

Nowhere did I say autos had less driveline loss than a manual. I stated your 7%
figure was way off... Since you now state 2% to 10% difference.....

I hope this doesnt go over harsh.. but making statements "7% loss" out of nowhere is bs to me.
Rand
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  #58  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwenzing
A stronger clutch will take more abuse before failing but it doesn't solve the basic problem. There is a short period of time where the clutch must be slipped to get it rolling. During that time, your throwing away power to heat. When fully loaded, you just don't have that much to throw away.

If you get a 150, it will have a similar problem unless it's an automatic. A larger engine, tougher clutch and bigger rear gears would help but not eliminate it. Plus the truck itself would probably be heavier and that's part of the GCWR.

A few years ago, I was towing with a 5.0L, 4.10 F-250 manual. If I remember correctly, the GCWR was 7500 lbs., so it wouldn't have any advantage over your Ranger manual.
Yeah, I think the plan is to maybe get an F-150 with an auto and a 5.4L. A F-250 with a 5.4L is not out of the question either. I am still moving junk from my parents house to mine and being a new home owner I am always buying big things both of which an 8 foot bed would be useful. Plus I am getting a camper with a F-150 or 250 rated for a max trailor weight of 9300 lbs (I forget the GCWR) I think I have more choices in the camper I can buy.

I had given thought to soom engine mods and stuff to make more torque and gears and stronger clutch, but like your said they don't eliminate the problem of the clutch needs to slip to get things rolling and in that spin you are just throwing power away. eh I don't know I have just a few more payments on my focus after that we will see.

Last edited by Ranger1; 04-21-2005 at 09:07 AM.
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  #59  
Old 04-21-2005
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My first Ranger was a auto and it was fun, but now that I have a manual I don't think I would go back to auto. I find it easier to get unstuck from mud or sand in the manual than it ever was in the auto. Also manual does help with gas mileage because my auto was a 4banger and my current manual is a 3.0L and I get almost the same MPG with the 3.0L than I did with the 4banger.
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  #60  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwenzing
It depends on the manufacturer. Some companies transmissions shift through 1 & 2 when in indicated "2". Fords have traditionally started out and remained locked in second gear.
That's interesting. This is the first time I've ever heard of that. My first car was an auto, although it was a GM, and it definitely dropped into 1st when in the '2' position. Most imports w/ autos I've driven work this way too. I figured that behavior was the norm.. yah learn something new every day!

I test drove the Ranger w/ the 5-speed auto.. almost bought one too. As II have said, it was one of the nicest auto tranny'd vehicles I've ever driven. A huge improvment over what I'm used to. When I was shopping I was looking at the regular FX4 package (not the LII). They had three w/ manuals in stock and DOZENS w/ autos. Test driving them the autos actually felt more responsive and faster up the highway on-ramps. I couldn't figure it out until I really paid attention to the tach and engine noise. The computer for the auto REALLY strings things out before upshifting, going all the way up nearly to redline in my experience. I was leary of doing this on my own w/ the stick, and that probably accounted for most of the perceived difference.. ..One sit in the LII w/ those sexy shifters and it was all she wrote though. It pretty well pegged out the fun-meter..

It was funny. Later I was playing the whole sales/negotiation game, trying to get them to come up on my trade. I used their poor selection of manuals as a bit of a ploy to try for some leverage. They had their sales manager come over and appoligize for that, explaining that very few of their Ranger customers want manuals. I laughed. A 'sport truck' w/ an auto seems like an oxymoron to me.. and it still does!
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  #61  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
Why would I have to provide evidence you are the one who pulled the 7%
figure out of your butt. I agree with most of the points in your above post..
so how did you arrive at 7% if dyno's arent accurate.. and you pointed to dynos
to support your 7% ?

Nowhere did I say autos had less driveline loss than a manual. I stated your 7%
figure was way off... Since you now state 2% to 10% difference.....

I hope this doesnt go over harsh.. but making statements "7% loss" out of nowhere is bs to me.
Rand
Show me where I said 7%.... It wasn't me dude, go back and read the posts...
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  #62  
Old 04-21-2005
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I said 7%, and thats a high estimate. The "accepted" standard is 15% paracitic loss for a manual transmission, and 20% paracitic loss for an automatic. Of course thats not spot on all the way across the boards.
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  #63  
Old 04-21-2005
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Personally I love my manual, I don't really offroad in it, because well my truck probably wouldn't make it. (Some of you may remember it getting stuck in sand in the PARKING LOT of Wharton , that was before two tire upgrades but you get the point) However John can attest to the fact that I need more to do while I'm driving than push down the gas. In fact I once drove his truck with cruise control on and almost drove us off the road because I lost interest. Needless to say that I won't ever do that again. The manual gives me more to do and that is a definate plus for me who really needs to multitask to get anything done. What can I say, I'm a mess!
~Candice
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  #64  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerNovice
Personally I love my manual, I don't really offroad in it, because well my truck probably wouldn't make it. (Some of you may remember it getting stuck in sand in the PARKING LOT of Wharton , that was before two tire upgrades but you get the point) However John can attest to the fact that I need more to do while I'm driving than push down the gas. In fact I once drove his truck with cruise control on and almost drove us off the road because I lost interest. Needless to say that I won't ever do that again. The manual gives me more to do and that is a definate plus for me who really needs to multitask to get anything done. What can I say, I'm a mess!
~Candice

Hey kiddo! Any chance of you coming to the fall Centralia meet? I'm gonna be there for sure, barring bankruptcy or natural disaster! (Speaking of natural disaster, its less than 6 weeks until the start of hurricane season...)
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  #65  
Old 04-21-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mnemonic
Can't blame my computer though, I'm bi-polar when I drive. I'm either in granny mode to safe gas, or will floor it because the little voices inside tell me too.
You too? Those same voice told me im Drifter X, TOO BAD i have a truck lol. Manuals are for "toys" like I want a Manual Prelude for a toy, something i can rice up, have fun with, finally get into the import scene. My Ranger(s) will ALWAYS have Autos, hell any truck i own will have a Auto. The auto's of today only get better with every passing year. Plus you can always replace the springs in an auto for quicker, stronger shifts. Most BAJA trucks are now Auto for the reasons Griggs was talking about. You want your part to last the longest, the auto will give you that. And There is no such thing as replacing burnt clutch plates every 6 months. Manual vs. Auto... there will NEVER be a champ... both have their ups and downs. Some are bias towards one. I wasn't allowed to get a manual for my first car (the ranger), so i intend on getting a car with a manual so i can 1. Learn Manual all over again. 2. Eat clutch plates. 3. Eat tire with the 1st and 2nd gear. 4. Show off for my lady, and ***** *** ricers.

Last edited by karrbass4life; 04-22-2005 at 12:04 AM.
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