traction setups? - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Drivetrain Tech General discussion of drivetrain for the Ford Ranger.

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  #26  
Old 12-17-2004
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I actually like and respect Colin overall -- but everyone who's on here knows there's a few places where we "violently" disagree! Still, I enjoy his mind and expertise greatly and would not like to see him leave -- just reform, lol! :p
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  #27  
Old 12-17-2004
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Fat chance!
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  #28  
Old 12-17-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz

One big thing to think about is all wheel drive vs. four wheel drive. In all wheel drive there is some kind of "differential" like device in the transfer case. For systems with full time all-wheel drive or full time 4 wheel drive (really all wheel drive), this device allows the front and rear wheels to turn at different speeds when required. It can be a simple differential, or a "viscous" coupler and may be always there, or turned on as needed.
The Audi, and Ford 500 and Freestyle among others, does not have any of those things. It has a multiplate wet clutch. They use the Haldex system of all wheel drive. If the front driveshaft turns faster than the rear it pumps hydraulic fluid and clamps the multiplate clutch together. The greater the speed differential the more pressure is applied to the clutch, until it reaches the design limit which is application specific. So, effectively, during a high slip situation the car has locked the front and rear together and is 4wd with no center differential. It's kind of an inbetween system. The advantage is that the rest of the time it is a front wheel drive car and is more efficient than an awd car which would be wasting gas playing around with the viscous coupling.
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  #29  
Old 12-18-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave and Julie
The advantage is that the rest of the time it is a front wheel drive car and is more efficient than an awd car which would be wasting gas playing around with the viscous coupling.
Oooooh! <sops up drool>
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  #30  
Old 12-18-2004
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aww john, you didnt mention my old school POSI unit or a spool!!! ill go into it if anyone cares, but its old school stuff that doesnt really apply to newer cars.
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  #31  
Old 12-18-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHBubba
Oooooh! <sops up drool>

It's neat, depending on what you are doing. For a "sporty" car like the TT I think it sucks. You get very uneven handling characteristics because sometimes power is only going through the front and other times it is going to all the wheels. Sometimes it pushes into a corner like you would expect a front driver to do, and other times it oversteers and wants to swap ends like a rear drive car. Of course this only happens with the electronic stability program off, though it will still oversteer with it on, sometimes. Part of that is due to the TT/Golf/Beetle quirky handling. The TT was introduced without a spoiler and with a thicker rear andti-roll bar and no ESP. Things were quickly changed because of high speed stability problems that resulted in crashes. ESP was offered as a free of charge retrofit for all TT's produced without it, spoilers were added to reduce rear end lift and thinner antiroll bars were added to make the chassis more stable.

When you launch the TT hard you get a little scrabble out of the front end before the rear axle starts sending power to the road. Uphill in gravel it can be really annoying and I don't think the whole system is fitting for an aspiring luxury rally car. Though I don't think you can fit a traditional center differential in the Golf package. All of Audi's vehicles with longitudinally mounted engines use a Torsen center differential. So the name Quattro means different things on different cars.

For a family truckster like the Freestyle/500, I think the system is a great idea.

By the way, the TT/Golf R32 has open differentials at both ends. Spinning wheels are braked and then engine power is reduced. And when the engine cuts out it CUTS OUT. It is very irritating, especially when you are really trying to get somewhere. I frequently turn the ESP off when launching into traffic, especially in the rain. I find it better to spin both inside tires than to have no power to move out. In the snow if you do this, you spin out. The wheel base is too short and the steering is too heavy to control it well, it all happens very fast.

Last edited by Dave and Julie; 12-18-2004 at 12:48 AM.
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  #32  
Old 12-18-2004
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I find myself gravitating away from pickups and in the direction of such a vehicle. My father has a rather boring Subie Outback Wagon w/ the AWD. He brags about being able to hum along at 75-80 on the interstate in a driving blizzard. Meanwhile I think twice about heading out for a day on the slopes because my 4x4, which is 'okay' in the heavy stuff 'round town, sucks *** on the in the snow at speed.

My father thinks AWD will be nearly standard on most cars people buy before long, at least up here in the great white north. The handling issues bother me though.

My '99 pickup handled predicatably in snow; it predictably handled like crap! Now my '03 pickup handles well, but not predictably so! I blame the ABS combined w/ a full-time 4WD system. Somedays I miss my '86 VW Jetta. It was a simple, adequately powered FWD car. It handled predictably and well in the snow. Maybe that little thing was perfection?! ... Although I think VW has pretty well ruined that too. They went to a different suspension config on the next (3rd) gen Jetta. It definitely gave the car an odd handling feel. They called it 'track correcting' or something like that. But it gave you the ******* everytime you really mixed it up in the corners! My mom (who owns one, a '97) hates it.

Typical engineers, we just can't leave well enough alone!
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  #33  
Old 12-18-2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundPer4mance
aww john, you didnt mention my old school POSI unit or a spool!!! ill go into it if anyone cares, but its old school stuff that doesnt really apply to newer cars.
Posi is just another type of "LS" or limited slip (I abbreviate too much sometimes). A spool is a manual locker you can't turn off, lol! That should clear it up! :p

Thanks, Dave. I didn't know about those clutch type units. Maybe they can get some software behind their operation to even out the handling better. Colin, that might be a fun project for you! :)
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  #34  
Old 12-20-2004
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The Haldex is a mechanical system with electonic controls. You can learn more about it here:



http://www.haldex-traction.com/default.htm


Also, for the trademark challenged, Posi-traction is a GM product. Ford uses Trac-Lok and Chrysler Sure Grip.
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