Drivetrain Tech General discussion of drivetrain for the Ford Ranger.

Won’t go into gear while running

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Old 10-15-2018
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Won’t go into gear while running

Myself and 2 friends picked up a B3000 as a group project. Had to replace the freeze plugs in the back of the block and while we were in there we replaced the clutch disc. Yes, I realize it’s a much better idea to replace everything but we are trying to do this as cheap as possible. Anyway, now that everything is back together we can’t get it into gear unless the engine is off. We have tried bleeding the clutch system several ways, bench bleeding the master, gravity bleeding on the truck with the master unbolted and angled properly, pressure bleeding from the top. I’m not sure how stiff the pedal should be, but there is a bit of pressure on it. Just curious if anyone has any suggestions before we pull the trans back out and check the clutch parts.
 
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Old 10-15-2018
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Welcome to the forum

New Clutch disc is the problem
When car makers switched to internal clutch slave cylinders there was no way to adjust the clutch plate pressure as the disc worn down, the old external slaves had an adjustable "arm"
So SAC was invented, Self Adjusting Clutch, it was actually invented before this but................another story

Rangers all used SAC, so have a self adjusting pressure plate, as the clutch disc wears down the pressure plate moves closer to flywheel to maintain the same pressure so disc doesn't slip
If you look up regular pressure plate and self adjusting pressure plate you will see that the self adjusting has 3 or 4 springs around the finger springs, these are TIGHT when new, and slowly push pressure plate toward flywheel as clutch is used and disc gets thinner.
You need to use a hydraulic press to reset these springs, but it can be done.

So what has happened is that you have put in a thicker clutch disc between flywheel and pressure plate without resetting the pressure plate, so it can't be moved far enough back by the slave to disengage the clutch disc fully.
Only fix I can think of is to put in new self adjusting pressure plate or put old clutch disc back in, either involves pulling transmission back enough to get at these parts

This is an interesting Video on DIY reset for SAC pressure plate:

Never tried it but should work, BE CAREFUL
 

Last edited by RonD; 10-15-2018 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 10-15-2018
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Originally Posted by RonD
Welcome to the forum

New Clutch disc is the problem
When car makers switched to internal clutch slave cylinders there was no way to adjust the clutch plate pressure as the disc worn down, the old external slaves had an adjustable "arm"
So SAC was invented, Self Adjusting Clutch, it was actually invented before this but................another story

Rangers all used SAC, so have a self adjusting pressure plate, as the clutch disc wears down the pressure plate moves closer to flywheel to maintain the same pressure so disc doesn't slip
If you look up regular pressure plate and self adjusting pressure plate you will see that the self adjusting has 3 or 4 springs around the finger springs, these are TIGHT when new, and slowly push pressure plate toward flywheel as clutch is used and disc gets thinner.
You need to use a hydraulic press to reset these springs, but it can be done.

So what has happened is that you have put in a thicker clutch disc between flywheel and pressure plate without resetting the pressure plate, so it can't be moved far enough back by the slave to disengage the clutch disc fully.
Only fix I can think of is to put in new self adjusting pressure plate or put old clutch disc back in, either involves pulling transmission back enough to get at these parts

This is an interesting Video on DIY reset for SAC pressure plate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwgrUkyD6M

Never tried it but should work, BE CAREFUL
Thanks for the welcome.

Your theory made sense to me at first but upon looking at the pressure plate through the inspection cover, I don’t see any springs. It’s seems to be a non self-adjusting clutch. I should have mentioned this earlier but this truck is a ‘94
 
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Old 10-15-2018
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Originally Posted by LegalCT
Your theory made sense to me at first but upon looking at the pressure plate through the inspection cover, I don’t see any springs. It’s seems to be a non self-adjusting clutch. I should have mentioned this earlier but this truck is a ‘94
If your throw-out bearing and clutch slave cylinder are one unit, you have a self-adjusting clutch.

The springs are inside the pressure plate, you won't be able to see them until you remove it.
 
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Old 10-15-2018
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+1 ^^^

There were some early 1983/4 Rangers with external slaves, but other than that all Rangers came with internal slaves and SAC

People have put in regular pressure plates with new clutch discs, and you will get what you have now, you will have to turn off the engine to put it into 1st when stopped, shifting while moving will be doable just harder, you will have to RPM match engine and transmission to shift, but stopped is the big deal.
Over a month or so the new disc will wear down enough so clutch disc can stop when vehicle is stopped, so you can put it into 1st with engine running
Pedal travel will disengage at the very very bottom now, then slowly move up pedal travel until it engages and disengages at the very very top and that is when it will start to slip.

SAC keeps pedal engage/disengage at the same place in the travel, also allows you to use the clutch disc to the "bitter end"


Transmission is connected DIRECTLY to rear wheels
So if rear wheels are stopped then transmission is stopped, 0 RPMs
Clutch setup is spinning at engine RPMs, so say 700rpms at idle
Clutch disc is attached to transmission Input shaft
Clutch disc is sandwiched between flywheel and pressure plate, both are attached/bolted directly to the engine
When you press down on clutch pedal, the pressure plate moves backwards and releases pressure on clutch disc
This allows input shaft to change RPMs to match rear wheel RPMs, so allows you to change gears

If clutch pedal/slave can't move pressure plate enough to release ALL the pressure from clutch disc then clutch disc RUBS on flywheel and pressure plate, which are both spinning at 700RPMs
This makes it almost impossible to slow it down to 0 RPMs when rear wheels are stopped, and it must get to 0 RPMs to shift it into ANY gear when stopped

So if you do have a regular pressure plate, you can either change it to a new SAC pressure plate or shut off the engine when stopped to get it into 1st until clutch disc wears down enough to allow it to spin freely, no RUBBING
 

Last edited by RonD; 10-15-2018 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 10-16-2018
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Originally Posted by RonD
+1 ^^^

There were some early 1983/4 Rangers with external slaves, but other than that all Rangers came with internal slaves and SAC

People have put in regular pressure plates with new clutch discs, and you will get what you have now, you will have to turn off the engine to put it into 1st when stopped, shifting while moving will be doable just harder, you will have to RPM match engine and transmission to shift, but stopped is the big deal.
Over a month or so the new disc will wear down enough so clutch disc can stop when vehicle is stopped, so you can put it into 1st with engine running
Pedal travel will disengage at the very very bottom now, then slowly move up pedal travel until it engages and disengages at the very very top and that is when it will start to slip.

SAC keeps pedal engage/disengage at the same place in the travel, also allows you to use the clutch disc to the "bitter end"


Transmission is connected DIRECTLY to rear wheels
So if rear wheels are stopped then transmission is stopped, 0 RPMs
Clutch setup is spinning at engine RPMs, so say 700rpms at idle
Clutch disc is attached to transmission Input shaft
Clutch disc is sandwiched between flywheel and pressure plate, both are attached/bolted directly to the engine
When you press down on clutch pedal, the pressure plate moves backwards and releases pressure on clutch disc
This allows input shaft to change RPMs to match rear wheel RPMs, so allows you to change gears

If clutch pedal/slave can't move pressure plate enough to release ALL the pressure from clutch disc then clutch disc RUBS on flywheel and pressure plate, which are both spinning at 700RPMs
This makes it almost impossible to slow it down to 0 RPMs when rear wheels are stopped, and it must get to 0 RPMs to shift it into ANY gear when stopped

So if you do have a regular pressure plate, you can either change it to a new SAC pressure plate or shut off the engine when stopped to get it into 1st until clutch disc wears down enough to allow it to spin freely, no RUBBING
Mine has the internal slave, but I see no way of resetting this pressure plate so it must have been swapped to a non-SAC. The previous owner said he had a rebuilt trans put in it.
Does anyone have the thickness spec for the clutch disc? The replacement I got is much thicker than the previous (it would be) but would like to be sure I didn’t get the wrong one.



 
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Old 10-16-2018
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Yes, someone saved $10 on a non-SAC pressure plate
I would get a SAC pressure plate so you can use new clutch disc until it wears out, without an external adjuster you will only be able to use clutch for 60-70% of its normal life with non-SAC pressure plate


No, never measured disc thickness, but non-SAC and SAC disc would be the same thickness, new, non-SAC assumes external adjustment, because thats all they were ever used with, external slaves
You have a non-standard setup
 

Last edited by RonD; 10-16-2018 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 10-16-2018
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That pressure plate looks like 100% of the Ranger pressure plates I've installed over the years. It also looks just like the 302 style pressure plates I've used. I've never encountered the type of pressure plate you mention with springs over the fingers, on ANY Ranger or Bronco II ever, and that's at least 15 or 16 over the years. From 1986 to 2002 models. It was never even an option when buying replacement parts, so someone had to do some creative parts swapping or part numbers got mixed up at the store.

Out of curiosity, what's the hub on the clutch discs look like? Got any pics of them showing both in the same shot? From both sides...



GB :)
 
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