2.3L & Cash for clunkers? - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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Old 07-28-2009
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2.3L & Cash for clunkers?

Hey guys, I haven't been on here in a while, but just thought I'd get your thoughts on this.

My g/f has a '97 B2300. She really doesn't like the truck too much. It's ok, runs decent and what not, but just not what she wants. So she's thinking of tranding it in for a new Jetta TDI (which are SCHAWEETT!!!). Would her truck qualify? Reg cab, with the 2.3L and manual tranny. I can't find what the original mpg ratings are, but she usually gets about 18 out of a tank of mixed driving. Most of the rules I've read say 18mpg combined or less, but then they say if you improve by 10mpg you get $4500

The crappy part of the deal is, she was planning to sell it, and use the money as a down payment, but it's not worth $3500, let alone $4500!! Heck she only paid $3000 for it with 120k miles on it and it's got 150k now, so why not I guess.

If nObama is going to run this country into the ground, I figure we just as well get what we can while we're still swirling around the edge of the crapper.

Thoughts? Opinions?
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2009
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I'd do it!!
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Old 07-28-2009
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do it, the tdi gets more than 10mpg higher so you shouldnt have a problem
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Old 07-28-2009
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Sorry, thats not gonna qualify
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Old 07-28-2009
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why not? because of the MPG?
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Old 07-28-2009
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MR EPA says it gets too good of gas mileage
5 speed is rated at 21 and 24 which comes out to 22.5
Auto is rated at 18 and 23 which comes out to 20.5


it sucks.. my truck is rated at 16 combined, its NEVER got 16.


http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm
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Old 07-28-2009
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Yeah, you have go get 18mpg or less to qualify. THEN if the vehicle you get gets 10mpg or more, MORE than the vehicle you traded in, THEN you quailfy for 4500 instead of the 3500.
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Old 07-28-2009
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according to fueleconomy.gov, my 2001 4x4 4.0L automatic Ranger gets 14-17 mpg QUALIFYING it as a clunker. even though it is in top condition and runs perfectly. (knock on wood)
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Old 07-28-2009
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Nice, finally someone else with a 97 B2300 5-spd, although I'd love to have a regular cab (lets have some pics). And like someone else said, its definitely rated at 21/24 so its not quite enough of a "clunker" according to the gov. Best of luck on getting a VW TDI though, those have got to be pretty sweet.
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Old 07-28-2009
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I hate this cash for clunkers program.

Take perfect, running vehicles and destroy them so we can use our natural resources to make new ones (and much more of the new car is made of organic compounds synthesized from compounds isolated from crude oil).

On top of that, you'd think they would have been smart enough to use this as a tool to help bail out the two remaining domestic car companies. No, rather the majority of cars that people want to buy that meet the standard are imported. Now I have nothing against imports...but adding that it has to be a vehicle from a domestic company would have been a big plus to me.

This whole idea that vehicles are disposable and are designed for 7-10 year life spans is why the American automotive industry has failed and why we are in this situation today.
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Old 07-28-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red_rider View Post
Nice, finally someone else with a 97 B2300 5-spd, although I'd love to have a regular cab (lets have some pics). And like someone else said, its definitely rated at 21/24 so its not quite enough of a "clunker" according to the gov. Best of luck on getting a VW TDI though, those have got to be pretty sweet.
The only pics I have of it are with the front end smashed up lol. She ran a stop sign on a gravel road and hit an explorer. But it's actually an EXACT clone of yours red rider, just a reg cab. Same wheels, and graphics and all!!

It's too bad they don't go off the actual mileage!! It's never gotten 24 mpg lol. But then again it's never ran good either. It always misfires at low rpms, and will studder if you take off below about 1800 rpms. It's been a good truck other than the timing belt breaking, but other than that pretty solid. It just needs lots of things fixed on it. (a/c, blend door, interior light, gauge lights, fuel filler neck, and now the hood and bumper thanks to her accident :D)
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Old 07-28-2009
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thats why this program is flawed.

My truck gets 8 highway... but its rated at like 18 highway ha.

they should really be going off actual mileage if they want to be getting rid of polluting cars.. but the fine print says other wise.
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Old 07-28-2009
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you have to buy a new car for this too right? it says my flex fuel 01 gets 12 on e85 or 17 on regular.
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Old 07-28-2009
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you have to buy a new car for this too right? it says my flex fuel 01 gets 12 on e85 or 17 on regular.
I'm pretty sure it's MPG on regular pump gas.
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  #15  
Old 07-28-2009
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heres some info on Cash for clunkers program... if any of relates to nissans its because i work for a nissan dealer and got this off the nissan site:


1. “CARS” Program Rules
The CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System - Home - Formerly Referred to as “Cash for Clunkers” website is the final authority on all CARS program rules, regulations and requirements.
2. What is goal of the “CARS” Program?
The “CARS” program provides incentives to owners of older, less fuel efficient vehicles to trade them in and purchase new, more fuel-efficient ones. The program will benefit American consumers, stimulate showroom traffic and auto sales, and help to reduce fuel use and vehicle emissions. New vehicles are cleaner, more fuel efficient and have many safety technologies not available on older ones. It will also spark a recovery in the economy.
3. How does the “CARS” program work?
An owner of a passenger car, minivan, SUV or pick-up truck that gets an EPA combined 18 mpg or less can trade it in for a government electronic voucher good toward the purchase of a new vehicle. The amount of the voucher is either $3,500 or $4,500, depending on the mpg improvement of the new vehicle over the one it replaces. The mpg improvement required for the $4,500 voucher is substantially easier to achieve for vehicles classified as “Trucks” (including SUVs, minivans and pick-up trucks) than for passenger cars.

4. What is the current status of the “CARS” legislation?
The President signed it into law Wednesday, June 24.

5. What older vehicles are eligible for the program?

The vehicle being traded in must be manufactured less than 25 years before the date of the trade-in. Antique car collectors and hobbyists asked that vehicles more than 25 years old be ineligible. Most importantly, the trade-in vehicle must have a combined (city/hwy) fuel economy rating of 18 mpg or less (varies by type of vehicle).
6. Are there other restrictions, such as length of ownership?

The trade-in vehicle must be in drivable condition and have been continuously insured and registered to the same owner for at least one year immediately prior to the trade-in.

7. How can dealers and customers tell if a vehicle is eligible for trade-in under the program?

NHTSA launched its “CARS” website on June 19, 2009 at CARS.gov - Car Allowance Rebate System - Home - Formerly Referred to as “Cash for Clunkers”. Currently it has minimal information, but eventually there will be additional consumer information and dealers portals. In the meantime, dealers and consumers can check the combined fuel economy ratings of older vehicles on Fuel Economy to see if they qualify. Click on “Compare Side by Side” and select a model year and vehicle make to find the Combined EPA label figures for a given model. The correct mpg number is the one listed as “Estimated New EPA mpg.”
8. What Nissan models are eligible for trade-in?

Many older Nissan Quests, Frontiers, Titans, Pathfinders, Armadas, and Xterras have combined fuel economy ratings of 18 mpg or less, making them eligible for the program. For specific vehicle questions, visit Fuel Economy.
9. Can any make of vehicle be turned in at a Nissan dealer? For example, can an owner trade-in a Chrysler minivan toward a new Altima or Rogue?

Yes. Any make of vehicle can be turned in at any registered Nissan dealer. The applicable voucher amount MUST be applied as a down-payment or partial payment towards a new Nissan vehicle. In order for a Nissan dealer to process the electronic voucher, the customer must purchase an eligible new Nissan vehicle.
10. Is there a price cap on the vehicles eligible for purchase with the electronic voucher?
Yes. The price cap on the vehicle is $45,000 MSRP. The specifics of how that is calculated have not yet been decided by the government (base MSRP or total MSRP).

11. Is the value of the voucher tax-free to the customer?
Yes.

12. Is there an income limit that disqualifies certain vehicle owners?

No.
13. When will the program start?

The legislation states that the program begins July 1, 2009. However, a 30-day period is provided for the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) to implement the program. Although dealers can technically begin sales under the program as of July 1, 2009, the government has informed us they will not be prepared to reimburse dealers on July 1, 2009. It is unclear when they will be able to accept claims, but likely by the end of July, if not earlier. The Government and NADA are cautioning all dealers to wait until the regulations are published before completing a sale. They are concerned a dealer will make a sale and then be unable to qualify for the reimbursement from NHTSA. However, NHTSA acknowledges when the program begins, sales retroactive to July 1 will be eligible if fully compliant with the regulations.

14. How long will the program last?

The program will be in effect through November 1, 2009 or until the initial $1 billion in federal funding for the vouchers runs out, whichever occurs earlier. It is uncertain whether Congress will approve additional funding to extend the program.
15. What specific Nissan models can be purchased with a government voucher?

A consumer will qualify for at least $3,500 incentive on the models listed below and in some cases $4,500, depending on the improvement in fuel economy of the new model compared to the vehicle being replaced. The combined fuel economy for the new vehicles can be found on Fuel Economy. A complete list of eligible vehicles is attached.
16. How many vehicles will be sold under the program?

The original goal was to trade-in one million older, less fuel-efficient vehicles and replace them with new, more fuel-efficient ones. However, the $1 billion in initial funding provided by Congress will cover about 250,000 vehicles.
17. How does a dealer register to participate in the program?

We expect the government to soon begin registering dealers. Nissan dealers who wish to participate are encouraged to sign-up as soon as registration begins to avoid any delays. The requirements for registration are still under development by the DOT. Each individual dealership will need to register separately. Nissan will let you know when registration opens.
18. How will consumers find out which Nissan dealers are participating in the program?
While we expect most Nissan dealers to participate, it is an opt-in program for dealers. Participating dealers will be listed on the government website once the program is launched.

19. How long will it take for dealers to be reimbursed by the government?
DOT is required to reimburse dealers via electronic transfer not more than 10 days after the submission of required information supporting the eligible transactions. However, the reimbursement process will not be available on July 1, 2009. Dealers who wish to sell vehicles under the program before the financial reimbursement system is operational should be cautioned that they will experience a delay in reimbursement well beyond 10 days. We would estimate that the system should be operational by the end of July 2009.

20. Are lease vehicles included in the program?

Vehicles may be leased using the voucher, but only if the lease term is 5 years or longer.

21. Does the dealer need to arrange for the vehicle to be scrapped?
Yes, a participating dealer must transfer the vehicle (especially the engine block) to a participating recycler or dismantler for disposal. A list of eligible disposal entities will be included in the regulations issued by DOT. Dealers will have to certify to the government the transfer of the trade-in vehicle to a participating, government approved disposal entity and submit the VINs of the trade-in and new vehicle purchased.

22. What happens to the vehicle once it’s transferred to a dismantler or recycler?

The vehicle will be crushed or dismantled and not re-sold as a vehicle to a consumer. The recycler is permitted to sell some parts but must comply with all environmental laws on disposal.
23. Is the entire vehicle able to be recycled or must certain parts be crushed?

The engine block must be destroyed. All other parts of the vehicle may be recycled with the exception of any harmful or hazardous material from the car (i.e. mercury, antifreeze, or other refrigerants) must be removed prior to crushing or shredding. The drive-train can only be sold if separated into parts. The government will establish the detailed requirements during the 30-day rulemaking.
24. Are there other restrictions on dealers?

Dealers must use the voucher in addition to any other rebate or discount advertised by the dealer or offered by the manufacturer. The dealer is prohibited from using the voucher to offset any other rebate or discount. The dealer can only keep $50 of the scrap value for its expenses of disposal.
25. Do dealers receive a processing fee for handling the trade-in?

Fifty dollars ($50) of the amount paid to the dealer for scrappage of the vehicle is considered an administrative cost to the dealer associated with participating in the program. Further details will be included in the regulations.
26. Can the dealer keep the amount paid to the dealer by the recycler?

Yes, however, the dealer must inform the customer of the estimated scrap value. The value of the trade-in is part of the transaction negotiations between the dealer and customer. Thus, the value the dealer will pay the customer for the trade-in vehicle has to be considered. Further details should be provided in the regulations.
27. What else does the dealer need to tell the customer?
The dealer must disclose to the customer the estimated scrappage value of the vehicle being traded in.

28. Can a customer trade-in two clunkers and combine two vouchers towards the purchase of a new Nissan?

No. Only one voucher may be applied toward the purchase of a single vehicle.
29. Can an individual obtain more than one voucher?
No. Each individual and each trade-in vehicle is eligible for only one voucher.

30. Is there any limit on how many vouchers a given dealer can process during the program?

No.
31. Will the DOT promote the “CARS” program to consumers?

Yes. DOT will conduct a public awareness campaign to inform consumers about the program and where to obtain additional information. The government will have a paid media campaign with television, print, radio and Internet components. The print ads will be available to dealers to personalize for their own marketing efforts. According to DOT, ads will be ready mid to late July.
32.Does the consumer get the trade-in value of the vehicle in addition to the government voucher?

The value of the trade-in vehicle is negotiable with the dealer as in any transaction. The price the dealer pays the consumer for the trade-in will be part of the transaction. However, since the vehicle must be scrapped, its value will be reduced. The dealer is permitted to recover $50 towards its cost in scrapping the vehicle.
33.What must the dealer disclose to the customer concerning the value of the trade-in?

The law requires that the dealer disclose “the best estimate of the scrappage value” for the trade-in vehicle.
34.Should a customer participate in the program if their car is valued more than $3,500 or $4,500 wholesale?

A customer can choose whether to participate or not depending on the value of their trade-in and the level of the incentive for which the customer qualifies. Customers receive either the trade-in value or the combination of the scrappage allowance plus the CARS credit, but not both.

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Last edited by redneckbl89; 07-28-2009 at 09:30 PM.
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  #16  
Old 07-29-2009
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Originally Posted by gr8shot View Post
The only pics I have of it are with the front end smashed up lol. She ran a stop sign on a gravel road and hit an explorer. But it's actually an EXACT clone of yours red rider, just a reg cab. Same wheels, and graphics and all!!

It's too bad they don't go off the actual mileage!! It's never gotten 24 mpg lol. But then again it's never ran good either. It always misfires at low rpms, and will studder if you take off below about 1800 rpms. It's been a good truck other than the timing belt breaking, but other than that pretty solid. It just needs lots of things fixed on it. (a/c, blend door, interior light, gauge lights, fuel filler neck, and now the hood and bumper thanks to her accident :D)
Yikes sounds like an eventfull ownership experience, although I'm about 50k miles behind your gf's truck. As for the A/C, lets just say I don't even go there unless I feel like giving school buses a chance at my pink slip
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Old 07-29-2009
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Yeah all in all, I can't complain too much. I'm a chevy guy at heart, but this has been a pretty decent little truck. I'm sure if we fixed everything on it, it would be much more tolerable, but as is, we'd rather cut our losses and move on to greener pastures :)

Too bad it won't qualify, that really bums me out. I was having dreams about that little turbo spooling up through the gears on a TDI. Eh well, maybe down the road it'll happen lol.
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Old 07-29-2009
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My truck qualifies.. but I'm stuck with the delima of
a) do i keep the truck and save for a tow rig
or
b) trade the ranger in on a TDI and take some ridiculous road trips on very little fuel? haha
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