well, its been a while since i was lowered and i was meaning to post this sooner, but got too busy

it seems, at least to me, that we now have more 4x4's being lifted than trucks lowered, but for anyone browseing, i'll just go ahead and post this...

here's what i learned from fliiping my keys...


1)the ride quality is crap. i have torsion bars rated 1, so i know it'll be stiffer than most, and i dont have any expirence with other tbars, but in my case...it was hell...

my cd player kit/holder thing actually popped out of my dash when i hit a slight bump...it was perfectly secure before

also, it jarred the light bulbs behind my AC control loose...thanks john for helping me with that....


2) ok....well...after i was lowered for a while, i couldnt take it anymore...the ride wasnt good for me....and honestly...i wanted to go flexing again ...

here's good news!!!

you dont even need the gear puller to remove the t-bars after flip-age. I actually, and literally, pulled the bars and keys out with my bare hands...thats how little the suspension is held on with. Keys slipping is a major concern...i didnt realize just how easy it was...i was thinking it was going to slip out from inside the crossmember, not entirely out...which would cause a MAJOR disaster if you were on the road when it happened.

that's all i can think of for now..u're thinkin.."wow...2 whole bits of info"

at least i found out 2 things from it

and that torsion bars are easier to work with than i had thought.

 

flip key=****ty ride....got it dont worry I will NEVER do it...lowing is just wrong haha

 

This is exactly what I've been talking about.. there is SO little tension on the torsion bars after a key flip, that its essentially the same as if you lowered a coil-front car by REMOVING the front springs.

Its an idiotic mod to do, and if anyone wants to defend it to me, I'll take that idiot on in debate.

 

I too have spoken on this and was concerned about the lack of tension. You're wise to change it back.

 

You pulled the keys + bars down with ur bare hands huh?? Well in the words of the great Ron White "I dont think so scooter." If u were able to pull those keys and bars down u must have like some super human strength going on or something cuz I know you didn't pull em down. Wanna know why, well here's why u know that little metal plate that the key rests on that the adjustor bolt fits up in and then goes into the key that sorta prevents the key from being yanked down. Also u make it sound like the setup of how the key is held up is completley different when u flip em to lower it. Well no they arent different they are still held in the same way they are as when they are unflipped so if they didnt fall out when u were lifted they arent gonna fall out when ur lowered of course im talking about setup of how they are hold together not ride quality or safety.

 

Thats right you will NEVER do it because you CANT do it because you dont have torsion bars Hahahaahaa

For 2WD Edges: Dont they make lowering kits for EDGE's now so you wouldnt have to flip them?

 

DJM (or is it JDM?) just released a "lowering key" kit "Starting at $69" according to the Godfather's ad in the most recent issue of "Truckin.'"

 

yes..yes i have super human strength

no ****, i pulled the bars and keys out with my hands....

 

When the keys are right side up everything is held together by the spring tension of the torsion bar. When you flip the keys there is little to NO tension, thats why this mod is ridiculous and completely unsafe, and THATS why he was able to take the bars out by hand, instead of having to use a Pulley Puller to move the bars enough to get the keys out.

 

^^^ ditto

 

lol

 

K, maybe it's just me, but I had my keys flipped for OVER a YEAR with NO PROBLEMS whatsoever, other than crappy ride quality. They had plenty of tension on them when removing, etc. I know they had plenty of tension cuz I flipped them myself and had a lot of trouble and a lot of elbow grease to get them back in. They were never in any danger of backing out, etc.

There are obviously several people in this country that HAVE done it, with no problems. But obviously there are those that have had problems. To say it is utterly and undeniably unsafe is a fallacy. Any myriad of variables can contribute to the problems with suspension. Even straight from the factory there have been problems with vehicles.

So...to some people, it would be nice of the others if you got off your high horse and stopped generalizing ALL key flips or other suspension modifications that you don't like, approve of, or don't trust. Cuz somewhere, someone has done it with no problems. Just think, at one point airbagging trucks was considered unsafe, etc. until someone MADE it safer.

Hopefully that clears some issues up regarding suspension. Just my .02.

Jason

 

Also I know for a fact brent u didnt straight up just lift the t-bar up and remove the keys without any jacks or a gearpuller. When I grinded my X-member down alittle I had to use 2 jacks to lift my bar up enough to slide the key out and even then the truck came up off one of the jacks and they keys were flipped then. So I doubt ur skinny *** could put enough pressure on that bar to move it up so the key could be pulled out. Then again u prolly did it wrong cuz mine are flipped now and it rides better then it did when I had it at stock height not bumpy at all so yea

 

i didnt modify it at all, and i was still slammed...i didnt have to cut or modify anything to get low

and i did pull it out without any tools, dont believe me, ask my bro he was there

also, as noted before, i have number 1 torsion bars, which are the stiffest u can get...

dont try to talk crap about me dude, just cuz u take to heart the things i say about ya

 

The only issue this clears up is that you're a damn fool and no one should take advice from you. Why don't you head over to RPS and tell all the kiddies there to flip there keys, they're dumb enough to not know any better either.

 

me and wowak vs. everyone

haha....its sad that we're right too

 

I can't believe anyone is stupid enough to think that "I haven't wrecked yet" means "its safe for everyone."

 

they're just luckier than most...

with the way that the bars are so loose in there...if they went into a ditch, that alone might be grounds enough for things to mess up.....i dunno

 

A friend of mine did the key flip and it was so bad that on rough (pothole) roads he couldn't keep it in one lane. I'm sure that the different ratings of torsion bar make a difference, but it can't be that significant.

 

K...well, whatever mowak....I'm just talking from experience. I went to San Francisco, Los Angeles, and other places in between, many times where the roads just sucked. Potholes, etc. And the truck held together just fine. I was under the truck many times over that year after I flipped the keys. Every time I checked the tension on the bars. Mainly by moving them around, etc. to see if they moved. They NEVER did.

I'm not saying that is is safe for EVERYONE. I'm just saying that there are many people that have done it with no problems. I don't know the situations for the people that DID have problems. But anyway.

There's no need to attack people that have a different opinion than yourself. Maybe it's just me, but I like using these forums as a means of information. Not as a way to prove myself right just to boost my ego over other people. Sorry if you feel that whatever you say is right and you have to prove it. I'm just not that way. If you actually read my post you might be able to see that I try to be very diplomatic in how I word things, that way people can take a look and understand what is truly being said.

Oh and guess what, I have said this on RPS, and Generation-Edge (when it was still up). Some people had the same response as you, and others were thankful. Of course it's nice when more people who read it, take it with a grain of salt and decide for themselves whether they want to do it or not, and not let other people talk down to them convicing them that whatever they do is unsafe. They express their opinion without looking like a jerk.

J

 

When did everyone here turn into Douche bags? Its sad, really.



I have terrible ride from mine thats obvious. I drive normal speeds, and especially slower down roads with fixes/potholes, if your friend cant keep control and or know how to proporly drive a modified vehicle I feel sorry for him.

Get off your high horses all. Your opinion can be explained simply and nicely, without name calling. We are adults here, not children, please act like it. I see no reason for you, Wowak, to refer to people from RPS as being kiddies, when you are acting as if you were one.

 

didnt christian post a message about being nice?

i was simply stating the facts i had gotten from my install....i followed the same damn directions as anyone else would...the Godfather guy with the red xplorer...i think everyone else uses his site as a reference...

i did it to the T as per directions...my install was successful...the damn thing stood up...it didnt fall down, it was perfectly capable of driving around...then i noticed the bad sides....

this is just a note to the people who make stumble upon this site wanting to know the cons for key flipping...thats all...everyone seems to want to brag about it...how cool it is...and granted, it is cool...we can get low for free...but there's no free lunch's in nature...as the same goes with torsion bars...theres a cost..and it could be more than u wanna pay...

*gets off soap box*

 

Seems to me the guys that have the bigger tires/rims are the ones that experience the worst ride quality. I mean think about it Zero & Brent both have bigger then stock tires/rims and they both said they had a very horrible ride quality. I have my stockers on my truck now and my ride really isnt that bad maybe alittle stiffer then it was stock height but it's not an unbearable ride. Also as Brent previously stated the lower the # of t-bar you have the more you can expect the ride to be kinda bad. Maybe the key to not having such a horrible ride is stay with the stock rim size and maybe even get alittle lower profile tire along with replacing the rear shocks with dropped ones just a thought tho.

 

Yeah my ride quality is MUCH worse after my wheels. I'm honestly trying to find a way out of the flip, and really looking for a direction in which D. went. Just comes down to finding someone to machine the keys.

IF your going to do the flip the best things I would think to do with ride quality is replace current bumpstops with a "Pancake" style, and upgrade to a stronger bar. Yes you will have a rough ride with stronger bars, but it will have better responce from bumps, so you have the best control possible with the flip. It should also help from hitting a bump hard enough to slam you onto your bump stops. A stronger bar will have more give than a bumpstop againt metal frame.


If someone found a shock that could fit decently that would help out amazingly. With the flip you lose torsion tension and propor shock resistance.

BTW: AIM makes control arms (I know I wont trust them) and re-indexed torsion keys for Edge trucks, they are the only ones though.

One day when I get back into wanting to work on my truck I may buy those keys and write up my thoughts on them. Someone may have already done this but what do I know, the forums have outgrown me, hard to keep up with any posts any more.

Good luck guys

 

I stated fact, then the retard posse came on and said "no, you're wrong." Well I'm not wrong, and I'm defending my position. Its not safe for anybody. Period. You guys are being completely irresponsible to portray it as anything but unsafe. Maybe you think I'm a douchebag, and thats fine. I just hope I don't get to say "I told you so" when you end up rolled over in a ditch. I really don't wish it on anybody, esp. the n00bs who don't know enough to make an informed decision, who might read just one post about "I did it, its fine" and decide that its safe for them too. Anyway, name-calling seems to be the only thing that gets your attention anyway.

At the end of the day I only hope this thread persuades more readers NOT to do unsafe modifacations than it persuades to take chances with their lives and the lives of other motorists by crippling their trucks' suspensions.