Oil not changed for 7000 miles causing timing chain noise?!?!?!? - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #26  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by manofak View Post
wow i do mine every 3,000 miles am i just wasting time and money?
No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.

Last edited by karrbass4life; 06-08-2009 at 02:52 AM.
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  #27  
Old 06-08-2009
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No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.
Your splurging is actually a waste of money, Mobil is almost as bad as Fram. Wix, Napa Gold, and Motorcraft are the only way to go.
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  #28  
Old 06-08-2009
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I'm not selling it... Got a new DPFE sensor for my CEL... Also changed the oil with 5w30 Royal Purple motor oil and a motorcraft filter. No more timing chain noise... Runs amazing. I'm very happy! Patience and a Ford CPU reading does a lot of good
Patience?
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  #29  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
Going 7000 miles on an oil change, especially with an overhead cam motor, regardless of what oil is in it, doesnt seem wise either.

my standpoint on oil is no matter what the manufacturer claims, oil will still go through viscosity breakdown
Ok but this is also speculation. I'm not arguing with you, just stating, this seems like speculation.
Have you ever sent a sample of used oil off to be analyzed? They can not only test the oil and measure the levels of all the elements in the oil, but also usually diagnose any problems if they see abnormally high levels of an element.

I know a LOT of diesel guys send oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories to have it analyzed. They measure those levels, and also check the viscosity AND shear value of the oil. There are guys running bypass filter kits, putting 20k miles on an oil change, sending samples off to get tested, and finding out that their oil is STILL good. I know it sounds ridiculous., but I've seen some copies of those reports, and it is pretty awesome what all they can tell you.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gas_engines.html

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/diesel_engines.html

My point is, is that I see no problem running extended oil changes, AS LONG AS you have your oil analyzed and the results are that the oil's characteristics are not changed from when it was new. Although, IMO, to run 7k+ mile intervals, one should have an oil filter bypass kit so that smaller particles are also filtered from the oil.
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  #30  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
the only reason i say they dont take a liking to full synthetic is because it seems that the ones i work on with full synthetic have more cam chain noise because i assume the chain tensioner seal does not hold the smaller synthetic oil molecules as well, but it seems to be working for you so i may be incorrect on this
Where did you get the information that synthetic oil is made up of smaller molecules? I have seen information that synthetic oil is more uniform in molecular size than conventional oil. That information lead me to believe conventional oil has a wider range of molecular size but has an average size that is equivalent to synthetic oil. That means conventional oil contains some molecules that are smaller than the smallest molecules in synthetic oil.

The only information I have come across regarding the use of synthetic oil and the timing chain tensioner indicated using synthetic oil reduces the rattle problem. This information came from a mechanic that was working with a engine that had a slight timing chain rattle. He changed the oil to a good quality synthetic oil and the timing chain rattle went away. He said he did not know if it was going to be a permanent fix but did improve the existing condition.
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  #31  
Old 06-08-2009
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freddie is correct on this. I have run the extended oil change intervals on two Rangers with oil analysis. The first Ranger had a 25,000 mile oil change interval and the viscosity would raise after 20,000 miles. I adjusted that by adding lower viscosity oil after changing the standard filter at 5,000 mile intervals. The oil analysis showed everything else stayed within the normal range. That engine had almost 200,000 miles on it when I sold it in 2002. It ran as good or better at 200,000 miles than when new. It is still running strong.

I decided to change the oil change interval to 20,000 miles for my current Ranger, just as a precaution.
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  #32  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by IN2 FX4 View Post
Where did you get the information that synthetic oil is made up of smaller molecules? I have seen information that synthetic oil is more uniform in molecular size than conventional oil. That information lead me to believe conventional oil has a wider range of molecular size but has an average size that is equivalent to synthetic oil. That means conventional oil contains some molecules that are smaller than the smallest molecules in synthetic oil.

The only information I have come across regarding the use of synthetic oil and the timing chain tensioner indicated using synthetic oil reduces the rattle problem. This information came from a mechanic that was working with a engine that had a slight timing chain rattle. He changed the oil to a good quality synthetic oil and the timing chain rattle went away. He said he did not know if it was going to be a permanent fix but did improve the existing condition.
whether it be true or not, i have been told and it is shown in some of my text books that a "normal" conventional motor oil molecule can be compared to the size of a basket ball, and a synthetic oil molecule can be compared to the size of a tennis ball.

if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
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  #33  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
Ok but this is also speculation. I'm not arguing with you, just stating, this seems like speculation.
Have you ever sent a sample of used oil off to be analyzed? They can not only test the oil and measure the levels of all the elements in the oil, but also usually diagnose any problems if they see abnormally high levels of an element.

I know a LOT of diesel guys send oil samples to Blackstone Laboratories to have it analyzed. They measure those levels, and also check the viscosity AND shear value of the oil. There are guys running bypass filter kits, putting 20k miles on an oil change, sending samples off to get tested, and finding out that their oil is STILL good. I know it sounds ridiculous., but I've seen some copies of those reports, and it is pretty awesome what all they can tell you.

Blackstone Laboratories - Gas Engines

Blackstone Laboratories - Diesel Engines

My point is, is that I see no problem running extended oil changes, AS LONG AS you have your oil analyzed and the results are that the oil's characteristics are not changed from when it was new. Although, IMO, to run 7k+ mile intervals, one should have an oil filter bypass kit so that smaller particles are also filtered from the oil.
what you say about the oil analyzing is true, we send oil out to be analyzed at work before the engine can be approved for internal engine repairs covered under warranty.

if you are spending alot of money on filters and oil, then it may be ok to run extended periods on your oil change, however, you are comparing a 7.3 diesel to a SOHC gasoline engine that usually hates life all together. in my 7.3, i ran 5000-6000 miles on an oil change with Rotella T and motorcraft filters, simply because i was driving it 3000 miles or more a month, and 15qts of oil and a FL-1995 filter aren't exactly cheap
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  #34  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
a SOHC gasoline engine that usually hates life all together.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!
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  #35  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
in my 7.3, i ran 5000-6000 miles on an oil change with Rotella T and motorcraft filters, simply because i was driving it 3000 miles or more a month, and 15qts of oil and a FL-1995 filter aren't exactly cheap
Justin, did you ever get your oil analyzed? I'm just asking. Because from most of the oil sample reports that I've seen, Rotella T's shear stability was decreased dramatically at around 4500 miles in the 7.3's. Use of the Rotella T beyond that is really not recommended, especially because the engine oil has a part in the performance of the injectors as well. I know... its not related to the 4.0 topic at hand, but I'm just curious.

Personally, I'm switching over to AMSOIL so that I can run at least 10k intervals. I will be sending the oil off to get analyzed, but I am racking up about 3k or more miles a month as well. I will be getting a oil filter bypass kit. Right now though the truck has AMSOIL syn blend in it with a WIX filter

Last edited by freddie; 06-08-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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  #36  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by freddie View Post
Justin, did you ever get your oil analyzed? I'm just asking. Because from most of the oil sample reports that I've seen, Rotella T's shear stability was decreased dramatically at around 4500 miles in the 7.3's. Use of the Rotella T beyond that is really not recommended, especially because the engine oil has a part in the performance of the injectors as well. I know... its not related to the 4.0 topic at hand, but I'm just curious.

Personally, I'm switching over to AMSOIL so that I can run at least 10k intervals. I will be sending the oil off to get analyzed, but I am racking up about 3k or more miles a month as well. I will be getting a oil filter bypass kit. Right now though the truck has AMSOIL syn blend in it with a WIX filter
It was analyzed through work once, when i had about 4800 miles on it, they said they would do it for free so i did it. i really dont remember the results of it besides the guy coming to deliver the sample back to me and telling me that if i continue to run Rotella T i should use a 5k mile oil change interval, no more than that, so i did
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  #37  
Old 06-08-2009
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Ah I gotcha. Well thats cool. PM me any pics of this 7.3L beast you speak of?
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  #38  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by 03bamaGT View Post
Your splurging is actually a waste of money, Mobil is almost as bad as Fram. Wix, Napa Gold, and Motorcraft are the only way to go.
I've never had a problem with them. They are the same as a STP, Bosch, K&N.

Quote:
Like the Champ filter, this filter is made by Champion Labs. However, it uses a unique end plate and a thicker can that make it the strongest filter available for wide distribution retail sale. It also uses a synthetic media, which inproves filtration and flow. I'm happy to say that this filter is NOT a fake. It is definitely a unique design.

It uses a synthetic fiber element that can filter out very small particles and is very strong. It is rated just under the Purolator Pure One as far as filtering capability, but is still very much above conventional paper filters. It also has a very strong construction to withstand high pressure spikes during start-up. However, as with all Mobil 1 products, expect to pay 2 - 3 times as much for this filter.

I have received many reports of these filters failing at high pressures. It seems that the seam where the backplate crimps to the case can split.
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfi...dy.html#m1-301

Last edited by karrbass4life; 06-08-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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  #39  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by karrbass4life View Post
I've never had a problem with them. They are the same as a STP, Bosch, K&N. They Rank up there with the Purolator Pure One Filters.
Which are all garbage...I have personally seen K&N and Mobil 1 filters fail on more than one occasion.
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  #40  
Old 06-08-2009
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1999 F-250 7.3 101mm turbo, 38psi, hard chip, tuner, 6" turbo back straight pipe, injectors, intercooler and boots, dual alternators, 9" lift, 38's, locked front and rear, 06 leather interior....412hp and 986lb/ft

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  #41  
Old 06-08-2009
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Originally Posted by 03bamaGT View Post
Which are all garbage...I have personally seen K&N and Mobil 1 filters fail on more than one occasion.
I've had bad luck with a K&N, but not with the Mobil 1. The K&N wasn't tapped for threads.
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  #42  
Old 06-08-2009
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Nice. Why'd you get rid of it?
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  #43  
Old 06-08-2009
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Nice. Why'd you get rid of it?
couldnt afford to keep it when i quit working at my uncles body shop, sold it and bought a $500 chevy s-10
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  #44  
Old 06-09-2009
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Royal Purp FTW
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  #45  
Old 06-10-2009
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Originally Posted by karrbass4life View Post
No. Unless you think maintaining your engine is a waste, then I'd say yes. I change 3,000 miles or every 3 months whichever comes first. I believe it's cheap insurance. You don't have to spend $20 on a quart of oil either. Motorcraft oil is cheap and is made by Conoco Phillips (makers of Kendall). I slurge and buy Mobil 1 filters, but Wix, Purolator (makers of Motorcraft oil filters) and Motorcraft are excellent. Just stay away from Fram at all costs.

Found A Good One
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  #46  
Old 06-10-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
whether it be true or not, i have been told and it is shown in some of my text books that a "normal" conventional motor oil molecule can be compared to the size of a basket ball, and a synthetic oil molecule can be compared to the size of a tennis ball.

if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
Could also explain all those "cautions" about changing to synthetic oil on high mileage engines that have been run on conventional oil - that such a move would cause "leaks".
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  #47  
Old 06-10-2009
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Could also explain all those "cautions" about changing to synthetic oil on high mileage engines that have been run on conventional oil - that such a move would cause "leaks".
EXACTLY!!

this happened with my F-150. it had about 110k on it and i tried Mobil 1 and it leaked like crazy
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  #48  
Old 06-11-2009
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
Ive never seen a SOHC 4.0 take a liking to full synthetic oil. I would change oil in it and put Motorcraft 5W30 in it and a Motorcraft filter and give that a try. Going 7000 miles on an oil change, especially with an overhead cam motor, regardless of what oil is in it, doesnt seem wise either.

my standpoint on oil is no matter what the manufacturer claims, oil will still go through viscosity breakdown
What issues do SOHC 4.0's have with fully synthetic?
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  #49  
Old 06-11-2009
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Could also explain all those "cautions" about changing to synthetic oil on high mileage engines that have been run on conventional oil - that such a move would cause "leaks".
If I used just plain conventional oil for 100k I'd probably be more inclined to go with a "High Mileage" synthetic or HM synthetic blend instead of a regular full synthetic, if I wanted to try something new.
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  #50  
Old 06-11-2009
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Originally Posted by n0thing43 View Post
What issues do SOHC 4.0's have with fully synthetic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
whether it be true or not, i have been told and it is shown in some of my text books that a "normal" conventional motor oil molecule can be compared to the size of a basket ball, and a synthetic oil molecule can be compared to the size of a tennis ball.

if the seal is worn out in the timing chain tensioner, and you are using either a thinner oil or a synthetic oil, the oil will leak past this seal causing loud start ups and cam chain noise under engine operation, especially low rpm conditions like hot idle
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