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  #51  
Old 10-21-2008
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This is a subject that everone has an opinion on.

I base my opinion on two things. I've rebuilt many engines and I've used blackstone labs to test oils.

My opinion is that following the owners manual is usually the most cost effective thing a guy/gal can do. Use the products and specs it calls for and you will go 150k w/o a major oil related problem.

Now personally, I use 10w-30 mobil 1 w/pure-one filters for all but the Lightning.

IMO any of the 5w-xx weights are too light for a motor w/more than 5k on them. I like a fully synthetic oil thats a little thicker to help keep the motor quieter and reduce piston skirt wear at startup.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 10-21-2008 at 11:42 AM.
  #52  
Old 10-21-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
API certification is a warranty requirement by ALL US Auto manufacturers!!!

Obviously, Scamsoil thinks it's important, or they wouldn't lie about ALL of their products being API certified, as well as recommending XL, their ONLY
API certified product........



Here are just a few other scam companies, including the Pulstar Plugs! I find it interesting that the Tornado site includes a bible verse so you might think they are legit!!


http://www.petro-mag.com/

http://www.tornadofuel-saver.com/?gc...FQo2GgodfTuRCA

http://www.pulstarpulseplugs.com/default.asp?KID=3340

Great examples of how companies prey on people, who don't have any technical (or engineering) background!



More references for fuel saving scam companies:

http://ezinearticles.com/index.php?F...ces&id=1136940

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/devicefs.pdf
couple things...

1. I could care less about warranty and so could most people. Most people are out of their warranty range anyhow.
2. if your stupid enough to buy something with out doing research on it, its your own fault
  #53  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
This is a subject that everone has an opinion on.

I base my opinion on two things. I've rebuilt many engines and I've used blackstone labs to test oils.

My opinion is that following the owners manual is usually the most cost effective thing a guy/gal can do. Use the products and specs it calls for and you will go 150k w/o a major oil related problem.

Now personally, I use 10w-30 mobil 1 w/pure-one filters for all but the Lightning.

IMO any of the 5w-xx weights are too light for a motor w/more than 5k on them. I like a fully synthetic oil thats a little thicker to help keep the motor quieter and reduce piston skirt wear.

Rich
Rich, a 5W-30 oil has the same viscosity as a 10W-30 oil at engine operating temps.
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Rich, a 5W-30 oil has the same viscosity as a 10W-30 oil at engine operating temps.
Bob I'm not going to get into it with you. But your not acknowledging what I said and your *right*. But.. it's not that simple.

Cold start and hot "viscosity" is determined by a certian test proceedure. This test is a piston, in a cylinder, and how many strokes it takes to pump a certian volume of oil through a small oriface.

10w-30 and 5w-30 **ranges of acceptible stokes** overlap in hot oil temps.


What I desire to combat is two fold. 1) Cold start.. I want it thicker not thinner. 2) The wider the range of "temp" the oil is rated for the more additives they put in it. I don't want that because additives leach out with mileage, time, and thermocycles.

Rich
  #55  
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Bob I'm not going to get into it with you. But your not acknowledging what I said and your *right*. But.. it's not that simple.

Cold start and hot "viscosity" is determined by a certian test proceedure. This test is a piston, in a cylinder, and how many strokes it takes to pump a certian volume of oil through a small oriface.

10w-30 and 5w-30 **ranges of acceptible stokes** overlap in hot oil temps.


What I desire to combat is two fold. 1) Cold start.. I want it thicker not thinner. 2) The wider the range of "temp" the oil is rated for the more additives they put in it. I don't want that because additives leach out with mileage, time, and thermocycles.

Rich
Here are the datasheets, are you going to say they are wrong:

Matter of fact, the viscosity of the 5W 30 at 100C ( cSt @ 100C) is slightly higher than the 10W 30:

Mobil 1 5W-30:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...bil1_5W-30.asp


Mobil 1 10W-30:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_10W-30.asp
  #56  
Old 10-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Here are the datasheets, are you going to say they are wrong:
This statement proves your a bitter and agenda driven person.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Matter of fact, the viscosity of the 5W 30 at 100C ( cSt @ 100C) is slightly higher than the 10W 30:

Mobil 1 5W-30:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...bil1_5W-30.asp


Mobil 1 10W-30:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_10W-30.asp
Those links *PROVE* exactly what I said about thier ranges overlapping.

Rich
  #57  
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
This statement proves your a bitter and agenda driven person.





Those links *PROVE* exactly what I said about thier ranges overlapping.

Rich

But they don't agree with your first post stating:

"I like a fully synthetic oil thats a little thicker"

Which was the reason you said you use a 10W30, instead of 5W30!
  #58  
Old 10-21-2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
This is a subject that everone has an opinion on.

I base my opinion on two things. I've rebuilt many engines and I've used blackstone labs to test oils.

My opinion is that following the owners manual is usually the most cost effective thing a guy/gal can do. Use the products and specs it calls for and you will go 150k w/o a major oil related problem.

Now personally, I use 10w-30 mobil 1 w/pure-one filters for all but the Lightning.

IMO any of the 5w-xx weights are too light for a motor w/more than 5k on them. I like a fully synthetic oil thats a little thicker to help keep the motor quieter and reduce piston skirt wear.

Rich
Is there any major power or efficiency difference with 10w-30 in a 5w-30 recommended motor?
  #59  
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A 2-way street...

Oil is a slippery and controversial subject. The oil that I use is usually Mobil 1 because my trucks runs best off of it with exception to this brand:



This stuff is expensive and I usually can't hardly afford it. As far as Penzsoil I'll only use Platinum because that is the only oil they make that's worth a damn. And switch from the thin 5W30 or in my case 5W20 to 10W30 won't hurt it. It just takes a little longer for the engine to reach operating temperature than the O.E.M. Plus Royal Purple just came out with a new oil specifically for crate engines and freshly rebuilts. It's called Royal Purple Break in. Mobil1 is one of the most affordable oils today. Castrol is pretty good too.
  #60  
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Is there any major power or efficiency difference with 10w-30 in a 5w-30 recommended motor?
Once the oil heats up.. no. I have seen a very small drop in MPG though. Have seen this on the last 5 cars/trucks I've switched over to 10w-30.
It's usually only 0.5mpg or so. But on average I do indeed see a small drop living here in a colder climate.

Rich
  #61  
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Originally Posted by CBFranger View Post
Is there any major power or efficiency difference with 10w-30 in a 5w-30 recommended motor?
No not really. just enough to notice. When you switch from 5W30 to 10W30 synthetic it takes a little longer for the Temp guage to reach it's normal operating range. The result is your engine runs kooler for a bit longer and you get a little better fuel economy as well. Plus an added benefit is you can go slightly longer between oil changes because of the thicker oil taking longer to break down. Here's a way for you to read the oil Viscosity. For example 10W30. The 10 is how much the oil flows when the engine is cold. The 30 is how much the oil flows at normal operating temperatures. The "W" stands for winter additive. Out of my class at Nascar Tech myself and 2 other knew that the W stood for winter additive. There were over 40 of us in the class.
  #62  
Old 10-21-2008
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No not really. just enough to notice. When you switch from 5W30 to 10W30 synthetic it takes a little longer for the Temp guage to reach it's normal operating range. The result is your engine runs kooler for a bit longer and you get a little better fuel economy as well. Plus an added benefit is you can go slightly longer between oil changes because of the thicker oil taking longer to break down. Here's a way for you to read the oil Viscosity. For example 10W30. The 10 is how much the oil flows when the engine is cold. The 30 is how much the oil flows at normal operating temperatures. The "W" stands for winter additive. Out of my class at Nascar Tech myself and 2 other knew that the W stood for winter additive. There were over 40 of us in the class.
Really now...Rich just said that gas mileage will go down, not up like you said.
  #63  
Old 10-21-2008
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I'm not an expert on oil. I just know what I observe.

As far as temp... I donno?

As far as breaking down.. I'd *guess* that would only apply with non-synthetics?

Now for mileage.. a thicker media requires more energy to pump at the same rate than does a thinner media. (oil)
Consider how a engine cranks much slower and is harder to start in very cold temps. That's mostly because the oil is thicker.

But.. a 5w-30 and a 10w-30 at full operating temps I'd think would not be enough of a difference for us chickens to measure.
I think in part the MPG difference I see is because of the temps I live in. Shoot.. this morning it was 35F when I left the house.




Rich
  #64  
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Really now...Rich just said that gas mileage will go down, not up like you said.
Mine went up. I noticed it after I switched that my MPG's went up 2 MPG's. Of course his engine might be different than mine because mine aint suppose to use 5W30. Mine calls for 5W20 instead. I switched to 10W30 synthetic, put a K&N O.E.M direct replacement air filter in and changed the exhuast. I went form 13 and 15 MPG's to 18 and 24 MPG's as a result. It really depends on which engine you have.
  #65  
Old 10-21-2008
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My friend runs Amsoil in his 06 GTO and changes it every 7500 miles. It runs high 12s in the quarter mile and is a DD. No problems.
  #66  
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Another thing that is true is that with mileage oil gets thicker and thicker.

I've also seen posts from people who have used blackstone labs, where they have found mobil 1 to be thinner than other oils.

It's very well possible that we both are correct. I measured mobil 1 10w-30 against mobil 1 5w-30. If he measured from one brand against another.. it's possible.

This is the whole point that seems to escape BOB. Oils viscosity falls within a "range" of strokes vs volume flowed. This is just how things in science are. Nothing is "perfect". Everything deviates to some amount.

Rich
  #67  
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Another thing that is true is that with mileage oil gets thicker and thicker.

Rich
Rich, you posted that you weren't an "oil expert" and you continue to show it!!

As oil ages, it "shears", which reduces the viscosity!!
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Rich, you posted that you weren't an "oil expert" and you continue to show it!!

As oil ages, it "shears", which reduces the viscosity!!
I agree with that. Oil breaks down at the Molecular level over time with use. That's the first time I ever heard that from anyone period. Even people who are not mechanically inclined know better than that Rich. Damn I've heard it all now.
  #69  
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Another thing that is true is that with mileage oil gets thicker and thicker.


Rich
Rich, why would they have this test if the oil got thicker?

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4683.htm
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Old 10-21-2008
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Nascar Tech is a joke. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oil fight!!!! lol
  #71  
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Rich, why would they have this test if the oil got thicker?

http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4683.htm
Thanks for the link I was looking for that earlier. You and I don't agree on much but this is one thing I must agree with you on 100% without question. That crap he posted earlier doesn't make any sense at all. I've never, ever heard of oil getting thicker after use in my entire life. THINNER yes but thicker I have to snicker a bit on that one.
  #72  
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Nascar Tech is a joke. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Oil fight!!!! lol
Agreed. That's why I quit. The only class that I liked was basic engines and the guy who taught the class owns and works in an auto machine shop. He was kool. I Learned alot from that guy. If you want to learn about oil and engines talk to him. If you can't learn from him somethings wrong with you. Him and Michael Casserio were the 2 best instructors in the whole damn school. Casserio was head Line technician at Chrysler.
  #73  
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It's just up the road from me. I think it's so funny that these kid's parents spend thousands of dollars to send them to this school and they end up working at grease monkey. lol
  #74  
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It's just up the road from me. I think it's so funny that these kid's parents spend thousands of dollars to send them to this school and they end up working at grease monkey. lol
I know man. It's sad. They fill these kid's heads with foolish hopes and dreams of becoming a Nascar crew member when they couldn't be further from the truth. I know The McClure's personally. I went to school with Eric McClure and his mom was my 3rd grade teacher. They often run that school down like a dog. In oder to get into Nascar you have to be damn good almost perfect in fact. And above all else, you HAVE to know someone in Nascar in order to get in. Even if you do your chances of keeping your job are slim to none. Cause the race teams changes their crew around like you and I change our shorts everyday. It's sad to see their disappointment and they owe a 2nd mortage practically and end up being a low budget mechanic barely making over 14 bucks an hour.
  #75  
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I know of only 2 people to make it in. One is an official and the other is on Kurt Busch's pit crew.

Continue with the oil fight!!
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