Starting a CAI - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


General Technical & Electrical General technical and electrical discussion for the Ford Ranger that does not fit in any other sub-forum.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Starting a CAI project

Web Page

Well I've started a process to make a CAI setup thats above and beyond the norm. A few weeks ago I made a make shift box out of some foam board just to see if it was worth the effort. Supprisingly it was! (see the power graph at the top of my web page) OK.. so now since it's into the damp weather season here in Mich. I've made a clear box so I can readily see just what's happening with the rain, snow, and road debris. Once I figure out what effect what with water & dirt infiltration, I'm hoping to end up with a real "end all" ram air CAI. I'll give updates as I learn more.

Regards, Rich
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-27-2007
greygooseranger's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,293
I will be following this closely, I have often thought about a true fender well CAI, but it was never more then a thought...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
I've never seen TQ (I'm assuming this is torque?) graphed vs time before from a dyno, normally, it's Tq (and/or HP) graphed vs RPM.
How is it that TQ was close to it's peak before WOT?

If these results were truly from a dyno, why can't you show the dyno graph?


And, just incase you didn't know it, Ford's OEM intake/filter box is a CAI!

Last edited by Takeda; 11-27-2007 at 08:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-27-2007
graniteguy's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,221
Ayers, he has posted his methods for determining the gains. I would think it repetitive on his part to add that paragraph to each thread he starts.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-27-2007
graniteguy's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,221
Rich, here is a quick vid I made. I'm pouring water on my filter with the truck started:

http://stuffforyourranger.com/galler...c9bb09995429f8

I was selling them, but there ended up being too many sizes to keep up with. You can get it from www.outerwears.com. If you go with another brand, make sure it has the water repellant added to it. The repellant does not last forever.

What impressed me the most was breathability. After installing the sleeve, it was a little loose. After revving the engine to the max I was expecting it to suck down onto the filter. It never did.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Bob, There is no such thing as "HP" and this graph is a data log of "Calculated TQ into torque convertor".

It's a **better and more accurate** number than sitting on a dyno. It's real world information. Not simulated data like a dynojet would give. And even the mustang dynos are not as good actually taking measurements on the road.
On a dyno your not going to get the air flow through the engine room like you would as the truck accelerates from 0-70-ish mph.

Now.. I do wish that I could directly take data and compare RPMs vs TQ. I can do that for one graph at a time. But since data is taken on a time basis it's nearly impossible to compair to different graphs in a accurate way. Even in the graph on my web page has some amount of error. Just in the fact that the time stamps are not identical. If the power differences were only 1-2ft lbs of torque then I'd discount the whole thing as being a wash. But since I CLEARLY see a 10+ gain at first WOT I consider it good enough.

As far as WOT vs part throttle TQ. Its up there because I did'nt stomp the throttle. The spot where I taken this info is often sandy/dirty. If I stomped the tires might spin which would throw off the numbers.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Yeah I have an outerwears on the Lightning. Been meaning to put one on the ranger. Just been lazy about ordering one.

What I'm thinking is going to be needed is a vacuum operated ram air door. There is no need to pump in debris and water 99% of the time.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl
Bob, There is no such thing as "HP" and this graph is a data log of "Calculated TQ into torque convertor".

It's a **better and more accurate** number than sitting on a dyno. It's real world information. Not simulated data like a dynojet would give. And even the mustang dynos are not as good actually taking measurements on the road.
On a dyno your not going to get the air flow through the engine room like you would as the truck accelerates from 0-70-ish mph.

Now.. I do wish that I could directly take data and compare RPMs vs TQ. I can do that for one graph at a time. But since data is taken on a time basis it's nearly impossible to compair to different graphs in a accurate way. Even in the graph on my web page has some amount of error. Just in the fact that the time stamps are not identical. If the power differences were only 1-2ft lbs of torque then I'd discount the whole thing as being a wash. But since I CLEARLY see a 10+ gain at first WOT I consider it good enough.

As far as WOT vs part throttle TQ. Its up there because I did'nt stomp the throttle. The spot where I taken this info is often sandy/dirty. If I stomped the tires might spin which would throw off the numbers.

Rich

No such thing as HP???? Where are you coming from???

This is total BS!!!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda
No such thing as HP???? Where are you coming from???

This is total BS!!!
LOL.. Would you care to explain how one would measure "horse power"?

James Watt is the guy who "invented it"
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl
LOL.. Would you care to explain how one would measure "horse power"?

James Watt is the guy who "invented it"
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm

Rich
First you say there is no such thing as HP (horsepower), then you ask how you measure it, and then you give a reference to the guy who invented it!!

Sounds like you just learned what HP is!!!

And a dyno is used to measure it (AND TORQUE)!!!

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower1.htm
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda
First you say there is no such thing as HP (horsepower), then you ask how you measure it, and then you give a reference to the guy who invented it!!

Sounds like you just learned what HP is!!!

And a dyno is used to measure it (AND TORQUE)!!!

http://www.howstuffworks.com/horsepower1.htm
Bob, You can't measure something that is not there. Horsepower is a mathmatical calculation for people who can't understand the force of twist. Poeple in times of old wanted to understand how much work a engine could do. But they did'nt have the education or understanding of what "power" was. So Mr Watt came up with a mathmatical calculation to relate the twist of a motor to how much work a horse could do.

You can't measure "HP" on a dyno because there is no horse on it. You can measure the TQ of a motor / dyno and then using *math* you can derive a number than represents how many horses **are under the hood** so to speak.

Here is an analogy.. it's like Tempature. There is heat. Period. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is relative. I get "cold" at about 35F But my lovely wife gets "cold" at 79F. It's all realative to what one person "feels" and what someone else "feels".
And because most people can't accept this basic of science,folks have come up with realative terms like the freezing point and boiling point of water. 0deg C = water freeze. 100deg C = water boiling.

Mankind is finite. We don't readily accept facts. We tend to look through our preconcieved notions at the facts and then try to make them fit *our viewpoint*. Instead.. objective minded people look at the facts and then draw conclusions.



Regards,
Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 11-27-2007 at 08:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
HP Formula

(Torque x Engine speed) / 5,252 = Horsepower
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl
Bob, You can't measure something that is not there. Horsepower is a mathmatical calculation for people who can't understand the force of twist. Poeple in times of old wanted to understand how much work a engine could do. But they did'nt have the education or understanding of what "power" was. So Mr Watt came up with a mathmatical calculation to relate the twist of a motor to how much work a horse could do.

You can't measure "HP" on a dyno because there is no horse on it. You can measure the TQ of a motor / dyno and then using *math* you can derive a number than represents how many horses **are under the hood** so to speak.

Here is an analogy.. it's like Tempature. There is heat. Period. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is relative. I get "cold" at about 35F But wife gets "cold" at 79F. It's realative!!
And because most people can't accept this basic of science,folks have come up with realative terms like the freezing point and boiling point of water. 0deg C = water freeze. 100deg C = water boiling.

Mankind is finite. We don't readily accept facts. We tend to look through our preconcieved notions at the facts and then try to make them fit *our viewpoint*. Instead.. objective minded people look at the facts and then draw conclusions.



Regards,
Rich

Try telling your total BS to these folks:

http://www.clarktesting.com/

You aren't worth wasting any more time on!!!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-27-2007
My91Ranger's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Roseville, Michigan
Posts: 2,252
Subscribed. I'm interested to see how it works out with the different conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-27-2007
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
wow bobbie looks like you got called out!
time to wave the white flag

time to

seems you need to use other people to base your so-called facts on. Rich knows what he is talking about!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
wow bobbie looks like you got called out!
time to wave the white flag

thime to

seems you need to use other people to base your so-called facts on. Rich knows what he is talking about!
Rich is about as knowledgeable as you are on Vulcan V-6 engines!!!!

It takes somebody with your IQ to believe Rich!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-27-2007
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
ewwwww good one bobbie, but again you couldnt be more wrong.

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-27-2007
greygooseranger's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,293
I have said it before, Bob is the new Quest...
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-27-2007
vindex1963's Avatar
Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: phoenix AZ
Posts: 3,026
I made my own CAI and was badgered by Bob also. BBB=Badgered By Bob...... he was quiet for a while but now is back again. He's running out of forums, I think this is the last one.

Have you looked at my CAI?
http://www.freewebs.com/arizonarider...madeintake.htm

I like these home built set ups, says something about the person that wants to do it themselves.
Hope it works out for you.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Oh... I like Bob's input. Personally I'd like see some of the cars in his sig! I'm a car nut. Always have been. Maybe that's why I became a automotive OEM engineer.

You know.. a CAI kit is really a waste of time in the grand scheme of things. I just like the science behind it all. To me working, testing, and building stuff like this is just plain fun. Some guys watch the boob-tube. Some play git-tar. Some argue on the internet.. but the good guys are in the garage.

Rich
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-27-2007
greygooseranger's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 3,293
^^Nicely put Rich...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-27-2007
Level I Supporter
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Durham, NC
Posts: 3,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl
Oh... I like Bob's input. Personally I'd like see some of the cars in his sig! I'm a car nut. Always have been. Maybe that's why I became a automotive OEM engineer.

You know.. a CAI kit is really a waste of time in the grand scheme of things. I just like the science behind it all. To me working, testing, and building stuff like this is just plain fun. Some guys watch the boob-tube. Some play git-tar. Some argue on the internet.. but the good guys are in the garage.

Rich

Thanks Rich! I hope I didn't offend you in any way, but I'm also an engineer, and my pet peeve is SCAMS!! There are so many out there, and young people that don't understand basic mechanical & physical principles fall for these aftermarket company's BS! I'm trying to protect these youngsters from throwing their money away!!

I have an electronics shop that I enjoy as a hobby, and I enjoy photography as a hobby....

Here are some photo links to a couple of my cars, both are original, and never been restored in any way:


http://www.bob-ayers.smugmug.com/gal...4137#124353430


http://www.bob-ayers.smugmug.com/gal...83593#55357242
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-27-2007
lifted97ranger's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Charlestown, IN
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeda
Try telling your total BS to these folks:

http://www.clarktesting.com/

You aren't worth wasting any more time on!!!
hmmmmmm He is right Bob........crap they taught us that in my Statics class........horse power (which is 2 words by the way, not one) is a mathmatical formula.....they only TRUE dyno'd part of the formula is torque & engine speed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by greygooseranger
I have said it before, Bob is the new Quest...





BTW: nice findings Rich......keep us updated...

Last edited by lifted97ranger; 11-27-2007 at 10:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-27-2007
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
"those that think they know everything just anoy the rest of us that do"

i have asked this before, bobbie please back up your "scam" statement. if these said products were in fact as you say "scams" then these companys would have stoped selling them a long time ago.

and i dont want another link to a "someone who thinks they know everything" internet site.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-27-2007
wydopnthrtl's Avatar
Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SE, Mi
Posts: 2,342
Oh not too many people offend me personally. I do get perturbed at times by folks who won't listen to reason about the really important things in life. After all the greatest command is to Love one another.

Nice cars! I've poked around your sight looking at the pics. Very very sharp quality IMO.

I guess a better analogy given your background would have been Light. There is no "dark". Just some measure of light. You can't measure darkness. "Darkness" is realitive to what your talking about. Just as "HP" is a realative term and actually a convoluted way of describing torque.

Regards,
Rich
Reply With Quote
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
horrible starting, revs up after starting. smokindmax SOHC - 2.3L & 2.5L Lima Engines 5 09-01-2009 11:33 AM
CAI + TBS = squeeling noise? i_luv_strats 4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech 11 08-01-2007 11:53 PM
Cai ? coonass8285 2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech 9 07-02-2007 08:57 PM
For those of you wanting a CAI, made some vids for you Mike9825 General Ford Ranger Discussion 4 07-21-2006 03:16 PM
At least my homemade cai is done and ready!! B300OWNER 2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech 20 09-10-2005 11:08 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:20 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.