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  #26  
Old 01-03-2005
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also, even if the box was sealed and it was a ram intake, id like to know how much vaccuum it would take to pull soild water through a 4 inch tube, and id like to know how much vaccuum the engine produces in the intake. i think the engine would stall before it sucked up the water
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  #27  
Old 01-03-2005
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oh i like the idea very much, but like all ideas, it could use some tweaking definately ont he right track though!! make it look a little cleaner and higher off the ground, and youll be good to go
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  #28  
Old 01-03-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundPer4mance
also, even if the box was sealed and it was a ram intake, id like to know how much vaccuum it would take to pull soild water through a 4 inch tube, and id like to know how much vaccuum the engine produces in the intake. i think the engine would stall before it sucked up the water
The engine can EASILY produce 10 or MORE (much more) inches of mercury or about 10 feet or so water column! The power of the intake suction is ENORMOUS and it would have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM drawing it up the tube. Until the air in the intake is expended, which it would not until the water filled it or the resistance hit the "break even point", the engine would continue to run. This is what makes this such a potential problem. The physics virutally ensure you WILL suck water in through a sealed system.
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  #29  
Old 01-03-2005
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ok thats why i was asking. so we say, unsealed "cold air" or raise the intake some to avoid water issues
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundPer4mance
ok thats why i was asking. so we say, unsealed "cold air" or raise the intake some to avoid water issues
Correct. The ideal place for a duct would be behind the main grille (although to get through the core support it would have to be much smaller than 4" diameter) and even then there would be the danger of inhaling water, and the system should probably have some type of "drain area" where water could run to and be released or allowed to evaporate.
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2005
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just relocate your passenger headlight and use the hole in the support for air... it's as simple as that.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2005
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Q...... for some reson i do
n't think that'll work lol
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  #33  
Old 01-04-2005
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A snorkel could fix the fear of water crossing problem.

Last edited by karrbass4life; 01-04-2005 at 06:00 PM.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
The power of the intake suction is ENORMOUS and it would have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM drawing it up the tube.
The intake doesn't suck, atmospheric pressure pushes air into it.

This whole thing is a joke right?
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  #35  
Old 01-04-2005
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Originally Posted by Dave and Julie
The intake doesn't suck, atmospheric pressure pushes air into it.

This whole thing is a joke right?
All non-numeric terms for pressure difference are relative and for the sake of non-technical language. The engine does create a vacuum which generally is referred to as "sucking" (although there are many other things that suck, lol). In terms of the actual physics, you are correct, but it's a distinction without a difference. It is however, a distinction I would expect you in particular to point out.

We measure manifold vacuum as a differential pressure relative to ambient atmospheric pressure. Often, that number is expressed with a minus sign, denoting a lower pressure.

The whole thing is not a joke in terms of being able in take water into the intake! If you don't believe it, run a sealed tube from your intake to tank of water and immerse it with your engine running -- although I don't recommend it!
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  #36  
Old 01-04-2005
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Alright, to answer a lot of your questions ....... this was not meant to be a "permenant" thing. I just like to try things out and see how they work/affect things. This was just an idea that I threw out in hopes that people would run with it and come up with something better. I know it may not make a lot of you guys happy "look wise" ..... but then again, im not here to make you happy. Just thougt I would share the fact that there are cheap things out there that can be made to function and look right. I would realy like to run it in the grill, but like you said.... the only choices I have are to use really really small ducting, or I cut a bigger hole in the core support. Also, Forgetting the whole setup right now, what do you guys think would be better .... just a cold air induction setup, or a ram air into a sealed box setup, saying for instince it was located near the headlight? Thanks for the info guys.
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  #37  
Old 01-04-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
All non-numeric terms for pressure difference are relative and for the sake of non-technical language. The engine does create a vacuum which generally is referred to as "sucking" (although there are many other things that suck, lol). In terms of the actual physics, you are correct, but it's a distinction without a difference. It is however, a distinction I would expect you in particular to point out.

We measure manifold vacuum as a differential pressure relative to ambient atmospheric pressure. Often, that number is expressed with a minus sign, denoting a lower pressure.

The whole thing is not a joke in terms of being able in take water into the intake! If you don't believe it, run a sealed tube from your intake to tank of water and immerse it with your engine running -- although I don't recommend it!
I only pointed it out because I expected you to have stated it that way in the first place.

I meant the "ram air" thing was a joke. I know you are correct about getting water in the engine.
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  #38  
Old 01-04-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentNoise
Alright, to answer a lot of your questions ....... this was not meant to be a "permenant" thing. I just like to try things out and see how they work/affect things. This was just an idea that I threw out in hopes that people would run with it and come up with something better. I know it may not make a lot of you guys happy "look wise" ..... but then again, im not here to make you happy. Just thougt I would share the fact that there are cheap things out there that can be made to function and look right. I would realy like to run it in the grill, but like you said.... the only choices I have are to use really really small ducting, or I cut a bigger hole in the core support. Also, Forgetting the whole setup right now, what do you guys think would be better .... just a cold air induction setup, or a ram air into a sealed box setup, saying for instince it was located near the headlight? Thanks for the info guys.
I think you are better off doing nothing at all. Any benefit you gain will be unprovable on the dyno, and unnoticable from the dirvers seat.

For example, the pie in the sky talk from the motorcycle manufacturers that put ram air systems on their bikes, the F4i has one, is that they gain between 3 and 7 horsepower at speeds over 100mph. Of course these are designed and tested extensively and are installed on engines that are much higher in performance than the Ranger engines. Since bikes can and do go that fast on the race track there is an arguable benefit to having such a system. Since Rangers spend their time averaging speeds less than half that, there seems to be only argument against having ram air installed, debris/water ingestion etc.

Also I would venture to bet that in that location there is negative if not greatly reduced pressure vs a more central point on the grille, as the air is rushing past that area to go under the truck. Fast moving air at an angle perpendicular to that intake will result in negative pressure within the intake.
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2005
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hmmm, yah, I see what your saying. There probably are not enough benefits doing something like this for an everyday driver. Im sure there is a way to set it up in the grill and get a positive feedback, but like you said, not w/o having to constantly worry about debris and water.

Also, when It comes to bikes, race bikes in perticular, I could talk to you about them all day b/c I race them, but my knowledge of cars or trucks is pretty limited at this point..... im just trying to learn more.....

Last edited by SilentNoise; 01-04-2005 at 08:33 PM.
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  #40  
Old 01-04-2005
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Stick to the bikes if you wanna go fast and leave the Ranger alone. That's what I do. Bikes are more fun than Rangers are anyway.
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  #41  
Old 01-04-2005
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Bikes are also more $$$$$$$$$$$, if you want to race anyway. I spend 400 minimum on 1 track day. I also cant afford to keep the bike anymore, so I have to try and get my jollys off somehow.
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  #42  
Old 01-04-2005
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You don't have to race the bike, you could just ride it normally, that is still fun. A 30 year old bike could outperform a Ranger and they grow on trees as do parts for them. They are practically free.
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  #43  
Old 01-04-2005
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man this is a word-y topic.....
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  #44  
Old 01-04-2005
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Im not trying to be an jerk or anything but you have way to much airflow restriction for it to add any HP gains, if anything it will cut down on airflow. As soon as you add a 90 degree angle to any ducting you cut airflow. A sharp 90 elbow such as yours is the equivilant of sending the air through 7.5 feet of ducting. You have at least 2. And to angle it into the airbox that way you have to have some other type of twist in your elbow. So just by adding 2 elbows you can add 15 feet of resistance to your intake. A 45 degree duct adds 4.5 feet of resistance to your airflow.

As for using flex duct the resistance of the ribbed walls defeats any use for gaining HP.

If you could go straight into the airbox you could probably add some gain.

Just trying to help out.

Last edited by RangerXLT; 01-05-2005 at 01:34 AM.
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  #45  
Old 01-04-2005
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I haven't checked his numbers, but Dave is dead on about how bends affect flow resistance overall.
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  #46  
Old 01-04-2005
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Spoken like a true hvac installer, or dryer vent installer. :)

You can find those specs on appliance repair sites such as www.fixitnow.com

It's stuff you need to know to install flue gas vents or dryer vents.
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  #47  
Old 01-05-2005
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i think that its effective as a cool air box should work some. at the very least it will bring SOME cooler air to the air box as it is, which should help at least a little. any restriction the pipe provides will be slack that can be taken up from the other hole in the airbox itself
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  #48  
Old 01-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentNoise
Bikes are also more $$$$$$$$$$$, if you want to race anyway. I spend 400 minimum on 1 track day. I also cant afford to keep the bike anymore, so I have to try and get my jollys off somehow.
Seriously?! What, were you going to race the Ranger at a track someplace instead?! If so, you're out the green for the track fees anyhow. If not, what are you gaining? I'd trade the sport bike for an older, slower 'standard' and find some quiet back-roads. Lots of jollies and not much $$$ at all. We've got a 27 y/o Honda in the family that's a ton of fun and they practically pay us to ride it!
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  #49  
Old 01-05-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave and Julie
I think you are better off doing nothing at all. Any benefit you gain will be unprovable on the dyno, and unnoticable from the dirvers seat.

The ram air only works if your moving... so if you were going to dyno it, you would have to set up a fan in front of it to get that effect of driving...
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  #50  
Old 01-05-2005
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Which is why I said it is unprovable on the dyno. Ram air is more a principle than a proven fact. Sure it probably does something if it's done right but no one can really say for sure what it accomplishes as far as hard data goes, because you can't replicate driving 100mph on the dyno.
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