N3ELZ's 5R44E Transmission Rebuild Log
#51
04-11-2008
Well and update, then a long story (as in working from 6:30 PM to 2AM on the truck story, lol...)
I got the truck together with the new exhaust and ran it last night. I didn't take it out yet, but I did put it in gear and it engaged and sounded normal.
If you do the fall-back to Federal emissions you get a lot more sound for sure. My Flowmaster 40 sounds like I had once hoped it would now.
First pic is something else you want to think of changing if you take the transmission out -- it's the o-ring seal at the end of the filler tube. Mine was scratched up bad from all the dirt and sand in the top of the tube -- it looked almost "shredded" when I got it out. This is the new one in place.
The other pics show a "typical" exhaust flange for the front pipe and a "modified" one. To keep you from doing this swap easily, Ford changed the passengers side exhaust manifold on the California emission models and made the stud spacing wider, and they are not "clocked" 180 degrees from one another quite.
In fact, I didn't perceive that clocking at first, and only later remembered seeing it on my old system. You'll have to grind out the holes in the flange like thin the third picture more or less to get the flange over the studs on the passenger side.
The exhaust was a pain because I did it wrong. I tightened up the front pipe, then the CAT to front pipe connection. What I then found was that I couldn't get the muffler pipe to mate with the CAT without a great deal of grunting, straining, and pushing the muffler back with my feet while wrangling the pipes.
Then, the pipe ended up being tight against the frame crossmember. So, I loosened everthing back up, pulled the chain of things into "shape" and THEN tightened it all back up. Much better, lesson learned. This is what happens when electronic/computer guys do mechanical work, lol... (not a WORD, Mark Kruger!)
After this, a long story of despair and near defeat that turned out to be basically nothing.
I got the truck together with the new exhaust and ran it last night. I didn't take it out yet, but I did put it in gear and it engaged and sounded normal.
If you do the fall-back to Federal emissions you get a lot more sound for sure. My Flowmaster 40 sounds like I had once hoped it would now.
First pic is something else you want to think of changing if you take the transmission out -- it's the o-ring seal at the end of the filler tube. Mine was scratched up bad from all the dirt and sand in the top of the tube -- it looked almost "shredded" when I got it out. This is the new one in place.
The other pics show a "typical" exhaust flange for the front pipe and a "modified" one. To keep you from doing this swap easily, Ford changed the passengers side exhaust manifold on the California emission models and made the stud spacing wider, and they are not "clocked" 180 degrees from one another quite.
In fact, I didn't perceive that clocking at first, and only later remembered seeing it on my old system. You'll have to grind out the holes in the flange like thin the third picture more or less to get the flange over the studs on the passenger side.
The exhaust was a pain because I did it wrong. I tightened up the front pipe, then the CAT to front pipe connection. What I then found was that I couldn't get the muffler pipe to mate with the CAT without a great deal of grunting, straining, and pushing the muffler back with my feet while wrangling the pipes.
Then, the pipe ended up being tight against the frame crossmember. So, I loosened everthing back up, pulled the chain of things into "shape" and THEN tightened it all back up. Much better, lesson learned. This is what happens when electronic/computer guys do mechanical work, lol... (not a WORD, Mark Kruger!)
After this, a long story of despair and near defeat that turned out to be basically nothing.
#52
04-11-2008
#53
04-11-2008
Thanks!
So for the story...
Okay, so I began work at 6:30 last night right after dinner. Finished around 1:30 AM and after cleaning up the work area and me hit the sheets about 2AM. I'm tired today, lol.
Here's a summary of the highlights.
When bolted the tranny up, I didn't tighten the torque converter down before pulling the tranny to the engine. This made the bolts a bit harder to tighten, but I didn't think anything of it.
Well, when I went to put the torque converter to flex plate nuts on, I couldn't rotate the flexplate at all. It was totally jammed in there.
So, I backed off the bellhousing to engine bolts and pulled the tranny back and I was able to see that the little shoulders at the base of the studs for the converter weren't in the hole in the flexplate -- basically clamping the flexplate when I bolted on the bellhousing. So I got the studs in there right, and put the nuts on and when I bolted the bellhousing tight, the flexplate could still be turned. Lost some time there.
I played around with my new shortened front driveshaft for awhile. I got it at a JY and a friend shortened it for me, but the splines on the slip shaft are pretty loose. I'll need another one -- though this will work for awhile.
I got the tranny wired up, then got the exhaust bolted up like it should be after having to take it inside and modify it.
I put the starter in place and sometime around 11PM connected the battery and started the truck...
SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
You had to hear this noise to appreciate it. Ear splitting about 120 db and every dog in the neighborhood is now barking. I shut the truck down.
Well at that point I felt pretty defeated. I wasn't even mad -- just down. I envisioned some kind of metal-to-metal badness in the tranny that meant I'd have to drop again (groan), take it apart, clean out the metal shavings and flush everything out, fix what's broken and reassemble it again.
I got a diet Coke and sat and thought and decided to hit the ubiquitous internet. Got lots of hits on torque converter noise which is what I decided it must be.
What I thought was that when I clamped that thing in there I had somehow crushed the torque converter and the vanes were rubbing together.
I searched for over an hour, I kid you not. Different key words, all variations of TC, torque converter, grinding, rubbing, noise, squeal, screech, etc.
I finally hit a post about the separator plate between the bellhousing and engine getting bent in one guys install and rubbing the flywheel. I thought that the noise was in fact so loud that maybe it WASN'T inside the transmission. I had beat that plate up pretty good in the area of the starter when I was prying at the flexplate to rotate it to get the nuts on the torque converter studs.
So I went out and dropped the starter back out and to my dismay there was no way that plate was going to be rubbing the flywheel -- there was just too much spacing.
Now, for night work I wear a pretty good StreamLight head lamp that's very bright. When I was lying on the creeper looking up at the flexplate I noticed the front edge (where the teeth are) was very, very shiny and I hadn't noticed that before. The teeth weren't much worn, but they were rubbed shiny. The flexplate is pretty hard metal so it won't wear the teeth quickly I would suppose.
I looked at the starter and BINGO! The corner of the teeth was worn and rubbed and ground down all the way around the outside front of the Bendix gear. Starter teeth are softer so they wear first is my guess -- or they're just cheap, lol.
What I think happened is that from being clamped up like I had it, the entire flexplate dished a tiny bit, which caused it's perimeter to now be closer to the starter. I don't know if there is some other problem that clamping might have caused -- I guess I'll be finding out, lol.
Anyway, I put petroleum jelly on the starter ears and stuck some flat washers to them as spacers, then bolted the starter back up and started the truck. No noise.
So, I buttoned up and tightened a few things than ran the engine for a bit, put it in all the gears and verified they engaged, and topped off the transmission fluid.
The truck sounds GREAT. Going back to Federal emissions increased the volume of the Flomaster. It's not obnoxious, but it's sure a nice deep rumble and thrum now. I like it.
Like I said, by the time I got done cleaning up and all, it was 2AM. Not my best night but praise God I didn't have to drop that tranny again.
So for the story...
Okay, so I began work at 6:30 last night right after dinner. Finished around 1:30 AM and after cleaning up the work area and me hit the sheets about 2AM. I'm tired today, lol.
Here's a summary of the highlights.
When bolted the tranny up, I didn't tighten the torque converter down before pulling the tranny to the engine. This made the bolts a bit harder to tighten, but I didn't think anything of it.
Well, when I went to put the torque converter to flex plate nuts on, I couldn't rotate the flexplate at all. It was totally jammed in there.
So, I backed off the bellhousing to engine bolts and pulled the tranny back and I was able to see that the little shoulders at the base of the studs for the converter weren't in the hole in the flexplate -- basically clamping the flexplate when I bolted on the bellhousing. So I got the studs in there right, and put the nuts on and when I bolted the bellhousing tight, the flexplate could still be turned. Lost some time there.
I played around with my new shortened front driveshaft for awhile. I got it at a JY and a friend shortened it for me, but the splines on the slip shaft are pretty loose. I'll need another one -- though this will work for awhile.
I got the tranny wired up, then got the exhaust bolted up like it should be after having to take it inside and modify it.
I put the starter in place and sometime around 11PM connected the battery and started the truck...
SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!
You had to hear this noise to appreciate it. Ear splitting about 120 db and every dog in the neighborhood is now barking. I shut the truck down.
Well at that point I felt pretty defeated. I wasn't even mad -- just down. I envisioned some kind of metal-to-metal badness in the tranny that meant I'd have to drop again (groan), take it apart, clean out the metal shavings and flush everything out, fix what's broken and reassemble it again.
I got a diet Coke and sat and thought and decided to hit the ubiquitous internet. Got lots of hits on torque converter noise which is what I decided it must be.
What I thought was that when I clamped that thing in there I had somehow crushed the torque converter and the vanes were rubbing together.
I searched for over an hour, I kid you not. Different key words, all variations of TC, torque converter, grinding, rubbing, noise, squeal, screech, etc.
I finally hit a post about the separator plate between the bellhousing and engine getting bent in one guys install and rubbing the flywheel. I thought that the noise was in fact so loud that maybe it WASN'T inside the transmission. I had beat that plate up pretty good in the area of the starter when I was prying at the flexplate to rotate it to get the nuts on the torque converter studs.
So I went out and dropped the starter back out and to my dismay there was no way that plate was going to be rubbing the flywheel -- there was just too much spacing.
Now, for night work I wear a pretty good StreamLight head lamp that's very bright. When I was lying on the creeper looking up at the flexplate I noticed the front edge (where the teeth are) was very, very shiny and I hadn't noticed that before. The teeth weren't much worn, but they were rubbed shiny. The flexplate is pretty hard metal so it won't wear the teeth quickly I would suppose.
I looked at the starter and BINGO! The corner of the teeth was worn and rubbed and ground down all the way around the outside front of the Bendix gear. Starter teeth are softer so they wear first is my guess -- or they're just cheap, lol.
What I think happened is that from being clamped up like I had it, the entire flexplate dished a tiny bit, which caused it's perimeter to now be closer to the starter. I don't know if there is some other problem that clamping might have caused -- I guess I'll be finding out, lol.
Anyway, I put petroleum jelly on the starter ears and stuck some flat washers to them as spacers, then bolted the starter back up and started the truck. No noise.
So, I buttoned up and tightened a few things than ran the engine for a bit, put it in all the gears and verified they engaged, and topped off the transmission fluid.
The truck sounds GREAT. Going back to Federal emissions increased the volume of the Flomaster. It's not obnoxious, but it's sure a nice deep rumble and thrum now. I like it.
Like I said, by the time I got done cleaning up and all, it was 2AM. Not my best night but praise God I didn't have to drop that tranny again.
#55
04-11-2008
#59
04-11-2008
#61
04-11-2008
Thank you -- but it's all out of necessity. I can't afford to wheel unless I can do the work on the truck myself. I'm trying to figure out if the moments of elation when offroading is worth the moments of desparation when working on the truck...hmmm...I'll get back to you on that one.
And thanks Mark for the starter information. It's a pretty common thing in mechanical design to make an easily replaceable gear or other moving part softer to save wear on a difficult or expensive to replace part. I've seen that in the industry I'm in and figured automotive engineers must do it also.
And thanks Mark for the starter information. It's a pretty common thing in mechanical design to make an easily replaceable gear or other moving part softer to save wear on a difficult or expensive to replace part. I've seen that in the industry I'm in and figured automotive engineers must do it also.
#62
04-11-2008
IT LIVES!!!
Drove it around the block anyway. Thank you, Jesus! The trans shifts just like it did before I took it apart -- which is a good thing since there was nothing wrong with it.
The only thing different is that it goes into reverse quicker than it used to which is the one thing I was hoping to achieve with the new rings on the reverse servo.
I even left the program from Fred in there and it's fine.
I put the new front driveshaft in and here's a few pics of it in place. I hadn't finished tightening it down when I took some of these. That is a 96 or so Cherokee shaft (31.5" long) cut down to 28.5" long.
No vibrations from the rear driveshaft or anything else. No strange noises. Feels like it did before.
Quite delighted to have it rolling again!
Drove it around the block anyway. Thank you, Jesus! The trans shifts just like it did before I took it apart -- which is a good thing since there was nothing wrong with it.
The only thing different is that it goes into reverse quicker than it used to which is the one thing I was hoping to achieve with the new rings on the reverse servo.
I even left the program from Fred in there and it's fine.
I put the new front driveshaft in and here's a few pics of it in place. I hadn't finished tightening it down when I took some of these. That is a 96 or so Cherokee shaft (31.5" long) cut down to 28.5" long.
No vibrations from the rear driveshaft or anything else. No strange noises. Feels like it did before.
Quite delighted to have it rolling again!
#69
04-11-2008
#73
04-11-2008
#75
04-11-2008
