Project Dragula: B3000 Rat rod - Page 6 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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  #126  
Old 03-02-2009
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This thing is gonna be insane.... sweet build up, cant wait to see more progress
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  #127  
Old 03-02-2009
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i dont think the radius arms are gonna be up to the task of lateral location of that axle on their own. IMO you should add a track bar/PHB of some sort.

what material is that axle beam made of, and what method did you use to weld the buckets onto it?
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  #128  
Old 03-02-2009
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spend the money and get new springs, when you cut springs you effectively change the spring rate. springs are relatively cheap. Plus you have effectively done a SAS with a 2wd axle so TTB springs are going to be super stiff.

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Originally Posted by b3kbruiser View Post
Got the front end mocked up. Mind that I haven't cut the springs yet, it's going to be much lower! If you look at the radius arms, the lower knuckle is at the level the axle will sit. To make it easy and strong, I'm just going to weld them right to the axle, if I need to take them off... Eh, rat rod. I can always unbolt from the frame and grind off. So, all I have left to do on the front end is cut the springs, weld the springs into the brackets, modify and weld on the radius arms, and fabricate brackets for, then re-attach the tie rods.
I just saw this post. I have some major safety concerns. First, That front beam apears to be cast, what precautions are you taking for welding to it? Second welding the radius arms the the Beam is a HUGE No-no. There is a reason the radius arms are soft mounted. If you weld them they are going to break. The suspension is going to bind up and the weakest part is going to let go. Third, welding on spring steel (coil springs) changes its material properties and is also a very large No-no. Take the time and correct these problems, for your safety and those who share the road with you.
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  #129  
Old 03-02-2009
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Originally Posted by redranger4.0 View Post
I just saw this post. I have some major safety concerns. First, That front beam apears to be cast, what precautions are you taking for welding to it? Second welding the radius arms the the Beam is a HUGE No-no. There is a reason the radius arms are soft mounted. If you weld them they are going to break. The suspension is going to bind up and the weakest part is going to let go. Third, welding on spring steel (coil springs) changes its material properties and is also a very large No-no. Take the time and correct these problems, for your safety and those who share the road with you.
I'm glad you mentioned this, I was worrying about it today at work... The radius arms are still soft mounted to the frame, but do I need to soft mount them to the axle too? As far as I remember they where bolted onto the original control arms. I knew cutting the springs wasn't the best idea but i didn't think it was that bad... Hmmm... Know anywhere I can get custom length springs made? Oh and the axle is cast iron, I took the usual precautions, ground off the rust and paint, made short welds, and let it cool at it's own pace.
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  #130  
Old 03-02-2009
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you are introducing much more force on those radius arms by fixing them to a solid beam than they originally handled while fixed to the TIB which had an additional squishy pivot bushing near the center of the truck. all the additional twisting force will be directed at your welds.
welding cast anything can be VERY tricky and generally involves preheating and controlled cool down procedures. lots of good reading can be found by googling "welding cast iron." heres a couple real quick:
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/knowl...ronpreheat.asp
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/cast-iron.htm

i would be lookin at building some sort of combination radius arm bracket and lower coil bucket that you can attach to the original mounting holes in that beam axle, rather than trying to weld everything to it; especially not welding mild steel to a cast beam. looks like you need to make up alot of distance between the spread of the radius arm tabs and the thickness of that beam anyhow....
and add some kind of lateral locator. the radius arms dont have enough splay to locate that axle side to side.

you should be able to find springs in any circle track suspension shop, and they are cheap.
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  #131  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby View Post
you are introducing much more force on those radius arms by fixing them to a solid beam than they originally handled while fixed to the TIB which had an additional squishy pivot bushing near the center of the truck.
Right, the radius arm is still soft mounted on the frame side. Is that not enough, or is the arm itself not strong enough?

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Originally Posted by gumby View Post
and add some kind of lateral locator. the radius arms dont have enough splay to locate that axle side to side.

you should be able to find springs in any circle track suspension shop, and they are cheap.
I didn't think about it till you guys mentioned it but yeah I agree, a Panhard bar is definitly in the works. Any tips on making sure it's the right length, ect?
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  #132  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3kbruiser View Post
Right, the radius arm is still soft mounted on the frame side. Is that not enough, or is the arm itself not strong enough?



I didn't think about it till you guys mentioned it but yeah I agree, a Panhard bar is definitly in the works. Any tips on making sure it's the right length, ect?
IIRC The Arm is hard mounted on the TTB because of the bushing on the end of the TTB beam. If you look at a 1978-1979 F150 they have bushings on both sides. This is because the bushings actually allow movement because a radius arm style suspension is essentially always binding.
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  #133  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redranger4.0 View Post
IIRC The Arm is hard mounted on the TTB because of the bushing on the end of the TTB beam. If you look at a 1978-1979 F150 they have bushings on both sides. This is because the bushings actually allow movement because a radius arm style suspension is essentially always binding.
I think I'm lost. Sorry, suspension isn't my strong point... If I have the radius arm soft mounted to the frame but hard mounted it's still not going to work well? Or would it be ok?
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  #134  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b3kbruiser View Post
I think I'm lost. Sorry, suspension isn't my strong point... If I have the radius arm soft mounted to the frame but hard mounted it's still not going to work well? Or would it be ok?
You need to have both ends soft mounted. This is the axle side of the ford solid axle radius arm setup.

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  #135  
Old 03-02-2009
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Hmmm... Wait what if I used leaf springs? Thats what that axle is designed for. I should mention, ride quality isn't the biggest issue here, it's a rat rod, eh?
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  #136  
Old 03-02-2009
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Then you wouldnt need a panhard.
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  #137  
Old 03-02-2009
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Yes... I'm liking this idea. For the same cost as a new set of springs I could get a set of leaf springs from a J/Y and then it's just 4 u bolts and 4 mounting bolts to a stupid easy to make adaptor plate. I like this plan.

Red, seriously thanks for stopping me from doing something stupid, I got ahead of myself in my excitment :-p
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  #138  
Old 03-02-2009
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why not do the old one leave spring in the front style where it go left and right instead of front and back

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  #139  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Downey View Post
why not do the old one leave spring in the front style where it go left and right instead of front and back

For this heavy of a frame and body I'd still want to have some kind of lateral support, I'd think. I'd rather go for two small leafs under the frame. Plus, It's looking like I can get all the parts for less than $100, cheaper than a new set of springs, nevermind the steel to dick around with brackets, panhards, and radius arms. I'm already thinking of all kids of cool ideas to do with the foot of frame sticking out the front... Beer keg gas tank? "Bumper"?
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  #140  
Old 03-02-2009
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So your making a rat rod.... Why are we even talking about springs? You don't have springs on a rat rod!?!?! Mount that bish straight to the frame, and run some soft sidewall tires. Seriously, and you'll get low enough then for it to make sense. To make it look really good you gotta get that thing on the ground. Stupid low. Like low enough you can't park it in the driveway low.
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  #141  
Old 03-02-2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrangerRanger View Post
So your making a rat rod.... Why are we even talking about springs? You don't have springs on a rat rod!?!?! Mount that bish straight to the frame, and run some soft sidewall tires. Seriously, and you'll get low enough then for it to make sense. To make it look really good you gotta get that thing on the ground. Stupid low. Like low enough you can't park it in the driveway low.
Haha I hear you. I'm working on translating the measurments with leaf springs and it's actually going to be lower than with springs, the frame should clear the ground by maybe 6", stupidly low but still high enough I can actually enjoy a cruise around town.
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  #142  
Old 03-03-2009
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I see the physics have finally come into play. There is a lot more involved then just cutting up a vehicle and peicing it back together.

Definatly do some research and keep safety in mind......especially if this thing is going to venture out on public roads.

So far it's been an interesting build-up thread. Keep it coming.
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  #143  
Old 03-06-2009
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Quick update. Progress has stopped for a week or two while I wait for paychecks to come in, and I may not be able to afford parts after that untill April, spring break is coming up and that means bad things for bus drivers... That's a week without pay... Oye.

Anyway, here's a list, in loose order, of parts and prices I've budgeted on that I'm waiting on.

Leaf springs, shackles and mounts $120 (front suspention done)
Engine crossmember $100
Mount engine / parts to get engine running - $300
Trans / driveshaft - $500
Bodywork on cab - $100
Misc - (wiring ect) - $100
Total $1220
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  #144  
Old 03-06-2009
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Shouldn't have cut off your IFS mounts/crossmember...
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  #145  
Old 03-06-2009
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Originally Posted by 034x4 View Post
Shouldn't have cut off your IFS mounts/crossmember...
Why not?
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  #146  
Old 03-06-2009
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I firmly believe 6 inches to frame is too much. Much much to much. lol. The lowest car I ever had was less than 1/2 and inch to the skid plate that was welded to the oil pan. I got thumbs up from everyone driving around. It was the pimpest 510 ever. Too bad this was pre-camera for me.

I think a body drop is in order, and notching the frame in the front similar to how you notch one in the rear. Or hell, put the axle OVER the frame to really get it down there.

Just saying.. lol. Go broke or go home eh?
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  #147  
Old 03-06-2009
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Originally Posted by StrangerRanger View Post
I firmly believe 6 inches to frame is too much. Much much to much. lol. The lowest car I ever had was less than 1/2 and inch to the skid plate that was welded to the oil pan. I got thumbs up from everyone driving around. It was the pimpest 510 ever. Too bad this was pre-camera for me.

I think a body drop is in order, and notching the frame in the front similar to how you notch one in the rear. Or hell, put the axle OVER the frame to really get it down there.

Just saying.. lol. Go broke or go home eh?
Putting the axle straight on the frame strikes me as all around a bad idea... I'm planning on sinking a lot of money (not by real standards but by college kid standards, where $500 is life or death), and the last thing I want to do is have an axle that shakes the engine apart... I don't mind a rough ride at ALL, but still, no suspension strikes me as a bad idea all around.

Anyway, stay tuned for a huge update! I'm not giving out any hints but I'm SO happy right now! As soon as I can take pics I'll fill ya'll in.
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  #148  
Old 03-06-2009
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Ok, I need some input.

I'm going to go with a leaf spring suspension on the front for sure... If I get two heavy duty leaf springs, aka, 2000lbs each (the whole things weighs maybe 3000lbs) and use u bolts on the axle side through pre existing mounts, and going to shackles to brackets welded to the frame, would I need to use radius arms or a panhard bar? Or would the leaf springs locate the axle well enough without?
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  #149  
Old 03-06-2009
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Ok, here we go. God, buddha, or whoever is up there is definitly smiling upon my little project.. This is by far my MOST PROFITABLE CRAIGSLIST FIND EVER. HAHAHA SWEET!!! I randomly checked the free section of Craigs, and saw a post for scrap metal in my town, all the ad said was "200-300lbs of scrap, mostly steel. Come to _____ and come to backyard, I'll be there all night." I figured that was a good $5 or so in scrap, and the guy lives literally a quarter mile from me, so I figured what do I have to lose? So I head on over, and I was the first to get there... Sure enough there was a huge pile of scrap, but it was a huge pile of old auto parts! Heaven on Earth!

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See it?

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How about now?

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THERE IT IS!!! Yes sir, sitting right on top of the pile was a 4 speed toploader transmission. I asked the guy about it and he said he didn't think there's anything really wrong with it, except he didn't have the bell or tail housing and didn't want to spend the time or effort to try and sell it. Hell yeah! I'll probably rebuild it for good measure, but still, SCORE! I was looking at transmissions earlier and decided to go with and old toploader 4 speed, and was gearing up to spend $300 or more, and fate drops this little gem in my lap. BUT WAIT! THERE'S MORE!

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Leaf spings! 4 of em! (only 2 shown in pictures). They look PERFECT, too. I need to wait till the sun comes up, but they look like they are about 20" long, 6" tall, and in the 1000-1500lb range, with twin eyes, AKA, EXACTLY what I was about to spend $130 on. I need to see if I can find a part number on them and find out the weight limit too.

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Other random crap I got, transfer case for a 60's or 70's Landcruiser in great shape, a carb that I'm hoping will fit on the army jeep, and a huge bucket of every kind of bolt, pulley, and bracket a man could hope for.

Tomorrow will be fun as hell... I'm so in the mood to stay up late, but this mornign I got in a drunken jalepeno eating competition and I'm stuck inside... Oy vey.
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  #150  
Old 03-07-2009
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Yay quadruple post!



Here is my plan for the front suspension. I'm going to use the leaf springs and make a wishbone out of inch steel tubing, hinged on the crossmember and on adapter plates on the axle. Sound good, gurus?
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