99 2.5 Tuner
Anyone know any good Tuners to use on the 2.5 Lima engines to increase power and fuel economy that won't break the bank?
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The "chips" are a waste of money.
I doubt any software change would be noticeable on a stock 2.5l in any case. Ford doesn't de-tune engines, they want the best MPG(which is also the lowest emissions) and the most power from every engine. There is a compromise between power and MPG, that's the Laws of Physics, not Ford, lol. When you want more power from an engine you add more fuel, simple as that, a "bigger cam" pulls in more air so more fuel can be added. A turbo charger pushes more air in so more fuel can be added. Pattern here is "more fuel can be added" A 5.0l engine doesn't have more power that a 2.5l because it is physically bigger and weights more, it has more power because it can burn more fuel per minute than the 2.5l. I think there are still some companies around that you can send an EEC-V(computer) to and have them program it for your engine changes, might even be one in Salt Lake; or you can buy a programmer, plan on $600+ for that. You want to get a few more horse power AND increase MPG a bit, switch to an electric radiator fan, doesn't cost too much and if engine doesn't have to drag that belt driven fan around, HP and MPG BOTH go up. Also it really helps in cold weather, the Lima 2.x engines bleed heat, many have to cover the front of the rad in winter just to get heater to work, lol. This is because the belt fan, even if not fully engaged, still circulates cold air around the engine bay, e-fan is just off in cold weather |
Second the e-fan one of the first mods i did on my 3.0 and its very noticeable few extra ponies about 10 to 15 miles per tank more. Plus it seems to rev faster which would be good for you since like mine your 4 cyl power band is way up the rpm range peak hp is like 4600rpm so it would help you get there faster and make it feel faster. Again its not a horsepower adder just a horsepower freer. You may also look at a custom header if tuned correctly it can move the power band down the rpm range so you can hit it faster my headers helped with that quite a bit.
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RonD, thanks, lot of good info. Ya I was planning on the e fan.
I've heard that living in SLC engines don't get enough O2 because of the elevation. But then I've also heard the stalk air filter was made for a bigger engine anyway, so it doesn't really matter. So that's the reason I was looking at the tuner, so I could customize the air fuel ratio for this elevation. And I don't want to "upgrade" to one of those bolt on air filters that are supposed to move more air, because I'm pretty sure that just means they filter the air less. Any ideas? |
Stock air systems have been Cold Air Intake(CAI) style since the 1970's, even before on some, so yes, it would be a waste of money to change stock air system for performance reasons, this has been dyno to death, they don't add power period.
Although a good CIA system can "sound" very cool, and if done right you won't lose power, and nothing wrong with spending money on a good "sound" system Around 1990 Ford switched over to MAF(Mass Air Flow) system. The way it works is to measure the air flowing into the intake, the information is used by the computer to calculate the amount of fuel needed for the volume of air. There is also an IAT(intake air temp) sensor, this compensates for cold air which is denser than warm air. The Ford MAF sensor uses a heated wire, air moving past the heated wire cools it, the more air flowing the cooler. BUT denser air(sea level) will also cool it more than lighter air(5,000ft). So the MAF sensor along with the IAT sensor(correcting for actual air temp) compensate for any change in elevation. The fact you drive at the higher elevation all the time simply means you will have less power than at sea level, that's just the physics of it, not a tuning issue. Turbos are very popular in Denver(the mile high city) because of the lower air pressure, these give added power, BUT, that same turbo engine would still have more power at sea level, lol. |
Any recommendations on efans? RonD?
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I have only done the Taurus e-fans and they are often hard to find now.
There are two good reads in this tech section here: Ford Ranger Heating & Colling Technical Library The Volvo fan looks interesting and 2 speeds is nice but not required, you can just use it as a 1 speed. I like the Radiator probe temperature switch, very simple to install. Summit racing has this one: http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...3653/overview/ But there are others, the probe fits between the fins in the rad, when the rad heats up to the temp you set, the fan comes on, when temp drops the fan goes off. The switch above is not to power the fan motor, that is done with a high amp relay, the above type of switch is to turn the relay on and off so low amp side. If you do 4 wheeling with water crossings then you should install an on/off toggle switch as well, so you can turn off the e-fan in high water, another nice benefit with the e-fan, no water coated engine electrics like with a belt driven fan, lol. |
Are the 3.0 and 2.5 cooling systems the same?
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??
All "water" cooled internal combustion engines have pretty much the same cooling system, "water" jackets, water pump, thermostat and radiator with pressure cap, some have expansion tanks and others have overflow tanks. Are the radiators the same, usually not, if that was the question |
Originally Posted by RonD
(Post 2072464)
You want to get a few more horse power AND increase MPG a bit, switch to an electric radiator fan, doesn't cost too much and if engine doesn't have to drag that belt driven fan around, HP and MPG BOTH go up.
Just like when you’re buying an amplifier and one company puts the max wattage on the box while the other puts the RMS wattage on the box. The max is higher which creates the illusion to the buyer that it’s more powerful when, in most cases, it’s actually WEAKER than the amp with the RMS wattage on the box. RMS is continuous power which is what you need to be concerned about. Max wattage is an arbitrary number used for marketing reasons and is what an amp can deliver for a split second for a quick punch and it drains every capacitor in the amp’s power supply to do so. That often is immediately followed by a dip in power as the power supply recharges all of its capacitors. It’s ALL MARKETING in order to play on the ignorance (used properly here meaning that someone doesn’t know better, not that they are stupid. It just means they haven’t learned something yet) of the general consumer. Go look at a flow chart of air filters as well. K&N filters flow more than your standard paper filter but actually flow LESS than a NAPA Gold filter. The only REAL advantage of a K&N air filter over a NAPA Gold filter is the fact that it’s washable and reusable, PERIOD. Once you actually do research and see the testing/science behind a lot of things out there, you will see all of the holes in the marketing schemes. Another instance is gold plated audio cables. They claim they make a better connection and transfer the signal better. Guess what, there is STILL another interface between the gold plating and the metal that gold is plating. Every interface between 2 pieces is an opportunity for resistance. The ONLY way gold would truly increase signal transfer is if the connections were SOLID gold, the entire cable was made of SOLID gold, and it was ALL one piece with no solder joints anywhere in the cable. But that is NOT the case. It STILL goes through copper wires with solder connections and most of the time a steel or aluminum connector that is plated with gold but a lot of these companies charge like they ARE solid gold! I saw some “high end” RCA’s that were $120 for a 3’ cable. WHAT ARE THEY SMOKING??? So, before you go buying a bunch of stuff that someone told you you need, DO YOUR RESEARCH to make sure it’s ACTUALLY going to do what you want it to do! |
Originally Posted by LLCOLEG
(Post 2072473)
RonD, thanks, lot of good info. Ya I was planning on the e fan.
I've heard that living in SLC engines don't get enough O2 because of the elevation. But then I've also heard the stalk air filter was made for a bigger engine anyway, so it doesn't really matter. So that's the reason I was looking at the tuner, so I could customize the air fuel ratio for this elevation. And I don't want to "upgrade" to one of those bolt on air filters that are supposed to move more air, because I'm pretty sure that just means they filter the air less. Any ideas? |
Have to disagree on the E-fan
Radiator cooling fan is only needed when driving slowly or stopped, when at speed the E-fan would/should be off, so no draw on alternator or engine/crank, giving you better power(as needed) and better MPG, it certainly isn't alot but ain't 0 either Mechanical fan draws energy whether its needed or not, at speed the air flow thru grill/radiator can actually spin the mechanical fan but it still has a draw So full time draw or part time draw |
Originally Posted by RonD
(Post 2194217)
Have to disagree on the E-fan
Radiator cooling fan is only needed when driving slowly or stopped, when at speed the E-fan would/should be off, so no draw on alternator or engine/crank, giving you better power(as needed) and better MPG, it certainly isn't alot but ain't 0 either Mechanical fan draws energy whether its needed or not, at speed the air flow thru grill/radiator can actually spin the mechanical fan but it still has a draw So full time draw or part time draw |
Originally Posted by RonD
(Post 2194217)
Have to disagree on the E-fan
Radiator cooling fan is only needed when driving slowly or stopped, when at speed the E-fan would/should be off, so no draw on alternator or engine/crank, giving you better power(as needed) and better MPG, it certainly isn't alot but ain't 0 either Mechanical fan draws energy whether its needed or not, at speed the air flow thru grill/radiator can actually spin the mechanical fan but it still has a draw So full time draw or part time draw |
WOW! A 7 year old thread just to argue about a fan! LOL
I'm not taking sides but Ron is more correct. When engineers were tasked with getting as much MPG due to a bunch of EPA regulations, one of the first things every manufacture did was eliminate the mechanical fan. |
Originally Posted by Rock304
(Post 2194240)
WOW! A 7 year old thread just to argue about a fan! LOL
I'm not taking sides but Ron is more correct. When engineers were tasked with getting as much MPG due to a bunch of EPA regulations, one of the first things every manufacture did was eliminate the mechanical fan. If you’d like, I can do a test with MAF and calculated load data if you’d like. I’ll go buy an electric fan that has the same CFM as the belt driven fan on my truck. I’ll run the engine up to operating temperature and cause the fan clutch to engage so that I can record the grams per second and calculated load from the PCM with my diagnostic computer. I will then remove the belt fan and install the electric fan. I will remove one of the Coolant Temperature Sensors, install a Tee, and add a fan switch for 190°. That will be wired to a relay and I will power the fan with the relay from the battery. I’ll use 10 AWG wire for the fan motor which is what most fan supply wires are. Then I will repeat the test showing the grams per second of air and the calculated load from the PCM with the fan starting and running. Haven’t you ever heard the engine bog down when a fan starts up and the alternator increases its output to supply the power to the fan and then the load drops when the fan kicks off? If the data shows in favor of the electric fan, I will retract all of my statements. If it shows in favor of the belt fan, I don’t want to hear another word in this thread about an electric fan being better. If I’m willing to back up my claims with real data and retract my statements if I’m wrong, then I deserve the mutual respect. I will even record the data of engine load and MAF with the fan OFF to show the load of a freewheeling belt fan. |
On paper I am sure the math works, it always does, its just not always right
So I guess the dyno tests, from non-E-fan marketers, are all wrong, no HP or Torque gains switching to E-fans Having a different opinion is not disrespect, its having a different opinion |
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