crankin my torsion bars - Page 2 - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


Suspension Tech General discussion of suspension for the Ford Ranger.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #26  
Old 09-23-2005
FauX's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 992
Wow man, So I cranked my torsion bars, Got the exact same affect that you did but it took me less time, less work and I did it wrong, yet got the same result. Ok.
  #27  
Old 09-23-2005
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
so your balljoints are bad also right?

cass your comments are uncalled for.
  #28  
Old 09-23-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
See, there you go, all in a "snit" again.

Let me run it down for you from what it sounds like out here:

"I'm a professional so believe me whether I explain it, and DON'T cite references, DON'T give you links to confirming information, and DON'T try to explain in ANY way why I tell you things. And if you doubt me, I'll get emotional fuss at you."

You're as bad as I am!

But final deal: it was YOUR OPINION. I've never heard of that information you posted below, you've never mentioned it before -- instead you relied on "trust me I'm a professional". When someone starts leaning on that, I really begin to wonder about them if THAT'S their explanation!

I'll look into what you said -- but I still doubt it's relevant. The mounts on the frame don't move, the rubber doesn't go anywhere (it just compresses), and the upper arm still pivots through EXACTLY the same arc limits as BEFORE the crank. So what's the big deal?

If I'm missing something here, okay -- but I'll believe it when you SUPPLY proof of your claim below, or I locate it myself.

Why you have to play this game of not EXPLAINING things, but just insisting we trust you because you do it for a living, I truly DON'T understand. It's like pulling teeth to get you to EXPLAIN anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
ok john for you one last time,
the upper arm is set at the factory with the ford height specs
when you change the preload or ride height you bind the upper balljoint!
why do you think all the good lift companys are using "monoballs" on there upper arms?
dosent change geometry whatsoever!

dought me all you want i dont care.

spring loaded rubber suspension bushings are to be tightened at "ride height" unless there polly bushings (upper controll arms, exe)

this is one of the reasons i dont like comming here anymore, people ask for advice and most of you guys are giving bad or totaly wrong advice. i try to help and get bashed. so do whatever you want to your trucks i really dont care
i'll just keep fixing them the "right" way
  #29  
Old 09-23-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Okay, I have some references lined up in about 10 minutes that either prove or refute your point (I won't say which, lol!)

I'll wait and see if you walk the talk or not and prove it yourself, or whether you insist we believe you because you said so!
  #30  
Old 09-23-2005
Red_Ak_Ranger's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,221
Yah I'm gonna go with what John says. Where you learned how to do stuff in a school, he has to do it from scratch.

It's just...stupid..to say that it increases ball joint wear. It's natural movement.

Oh BTW, trust me, I'm an advanced auto student. I know what I'm talkin about.

Aaron
  #31  
Old 09-23-2005
FauX's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
so your balljoints are bad also right?

cass your comments are uncalled for.
No I don't have one bad balljoint.
  #32  
Old 09-23-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Actually, its NOT your balljoints that would be affected by this. He's RIGHT and he's WRONG on it.

As it turns out, what he's RIGHT about is that the a-arm mounts (and really, the uppers and lowers if they're rubber) with rubber bushings have an interesting way of working I'd not heard of.

(Since no explanations are forthcoming from our "expert" -- I'll have to explain as the "amateur", lol)

When rubber bushings allow rotation of the a-arm, they do not do so by sliding inside the mount. This is why they don't require lubrication! Instead they FLEX and TWIST inside the mount to allow the arm to move.

Polyurethane bushings, on the other hand, have to rotate in there to allow the arm to move. Poly bushings are impregnated with lubricant, or come with arms with zerk fittings so you can grease them. If you don't, they get noisy and can even begin to bind and self-destruct.

So, there is a great deal of wisdom in loosening those bolts and I WAS WRONG. BUT: It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BALL JOINT.

If you don't loosen them, you're stressing the rubber bushing and possibly shortening their life. Also, the bushing acts as an additional spring and can affect the feel of the ride and handling.

One more note: uniballs are said to be a TERRIBLE idea for a daily driver. They are basically "spherical bearings" and don't seal well and are subject to contamination and early wear-out. They are also pretty expensive.

Their primary use to make a really "bindless" suspension under flexing, or in cases where the upper a-arm mounts are not "co-linear" -- that is to say, in a line with one another. In a-arm designs like that, as the arm flexes, it must also move in another axis since the pivot points are not in line. Poly will not flex, but rubber will. If you want the smoothness of poly in a multi-axis flex, you must use uniballs.

Poly would be more durable for a daily driver (and a better choice than uniballs) IF the axis of rotation of the two mounting points are aligned, or other geometry features do not require another axis of movement other than rotation around the bolts.

Here are a couple of the references I found on this. If you research the topic, you'll find many more discussions.

http://www.elephantracing.com/subscribe/080404.htm

http://www.vcmc.ca/forum/archive/index.php/t-2061.html

So, bottom line: it's a good idea after all to loosen those top bolts -- BUT you won't kill your ball joints if you don't. Ford has already seen to it that your ball joints won't last and if you abuse them at ALL, expect them to need periodic replacment.
  #33  
Old 09-24-2005
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
what happens when you add more spring rate, the lower control arm drops and what does that do to the upper, it pulls it down, actuley pulling the balljoint out of the socket (made of plastic), the upper frame mounts hold the arms somewhat static , replacing a stock upper arm goes like this, loosen the balljoint to spindle nut and remove the pinch bolt, at this point you will understand why i say to loosen the frame bolts, you will not be able to get the balljoint stud out of the spindle untill you loosen the frame bolts. if you have cranked the torsion bars and have not relaxed the upper arm bushings when you try to remove the balljoint stud it will pop up out of the spindle very easy and actuley spring up with some force on its own. think of what its doing to the balljoint when its bolted together. "KILLING IT"

now for you john, we went through this same agrument on GE and seems to me i was right and your balljoints were loose.
you guys need to remember i'm no spring chicken, i have had my certs and have been fixing cars longer then most of you have been driving, or alive for that matter.
  #34  
Old 09-24-2005
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
and at this time i'm done giving advice (thats what this site ie all about i thought)

from now on i'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching you guys hack your trucks
  #35  
Old 09-24-2005
n3elz's Avatar
RF Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kennett Square, PA
Posts: 10,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
and at this time i'm done giving advice (thats what this site ie all about i thought)

from now on i'm just gonna sit back and enjoy watching you guys hack your trucks
See, that's what I'm talking about.

By the way, the contribution of the rubber bushing to spring rate is so small, it's not a big deal. Don't believe me? Remove your torsion bar and run your truck on just the bushings....

And you WERE right about my balljoints being loose and I thanked you for it, linked your post to everyone in a separate topic (it was here, by the way, not on GE). I don't have a problem with admitting I am wrong whenever somebody proves it or I do.

YOU on the other hand, are a posturer of the WORST sort and I'm rapidly losing all respect for you. You CAN'T admit you were wrong, and you pull this act like: "I'm your salvation and you guys would ruin your trucks without me around..." -- just like the post above.

You're a sad case, boy. Lose that ego and get real. Got something to say? Back it up, compadre' or I'll shoot you or anyone else down EVERY TIME I come across it. Put up or shut up is the rule. But your rule seems to be: cry and complain that no one takes you seriously when they disagree with you.

I even had to carry YOUR water to prove your point because you're too much of a child to do so.

You need to grow up.
  #36  
Old 09-24-2005
FoMoCoFiddy's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Smackdownville Tx
Posts: 4,508
Both of you grow up.
  #37  
Old 09-24-2005
04 EDGE
Unregistered User
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz

YOU on the other hand, are a posturer of the WORST sort and I'm rapidly losing all respect for you. You CAN'T admit you were wrong, and you pull this act like: "I'm your salvation and you guys would ruin your trucks without me around..." -- just like the post above.

You're a sad case, boy. Lose that ego and get real. Got something to say? Back it up, compadre' or I'll shoot you or anyone else down EVERY TIME I come across it. Put up or shut up is the rule. But your rule seems to be: cry and complain that no one takes you seriously when they disagree with you.

I even had to carry YOUR water to prove your point because you're too much of a child to do so.

You need to grow up.
i'm not the one making comments like this leo!
  #38  
Old 09-24-2005
jtslmn720's Avatar
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kent State, Kent Ohio
Posts: 7,367
but you are the one whinning about it... its not hard to just stay out of this thread... this is just going to turn into something bad and its not gunna be fun...
  #39  
Old 09-24-2005
rngprerunner's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Beach CA
Posts: 3,453
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04 EDGE
why do you think all the good lift companys are using "monoballs" on there upper arms?
Sorry I just cant help it... wish I was here sooner

Show me one lift company using Monoballs

Monoballs are used in the offroad industry because of thier solid mounting and strenght. They are not subject to sheer load like a ball joint is once they pass thier range of motion.
  #40  
Old 09-24-2005
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Fuquay Varina, NC
Posts: 3,048
thread closed
Closed Thread

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Stock 2001 torsion keys and #1 Torsion Bars - MO 01RangerEdge Suspension, Tires, & Wheels 7 01-10-2013 06:01 AM
For Sale: Superlift Shocks, #1 Torsion Bars, 99 Torsion Keys (TX) RangerNVS Suspension, Tires, & Wheels 26 01-22-2010 11:28 AM
pros and cons for crankin the t-bars braddokxlt General Ford Ranger Discussion 3 01-18-2008 11:31 AM
Lowering an EDGE. Dealing with Torsion Bars... 2.3RangerT Suspension Tech 41 01-31-2007 03:47 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:33 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.