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  #1  
Old 10-21-2010
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Icon9 Check engine light for lean banks?

So I bought and installed a K&N cone filter and after a full day of driving the check engine light came on. We ran the codes and it says that bank 1 and 2 are running lean. I have an 05 3.0 2wd. I cut the stock air box off at the very end of the intake not altering the O2 sensor, installed the filter on the end of the stock intake tube and welded up a cold air box with a lid. The only thing that was unplugged to do this was the sensor at the end of the intake but was plugged back in correctly. Truck seems to run fine with no idle problems or change for the worse at any speed.. Anyone got a clue what it might be??
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Old 10-22-2010
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you got an air leak somewhere after the MAF sensor...its allowing unmetered air into the motor
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Old 10-22-2010
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check all the clamps and hose connections its definately a MAF sensor issues have you tried cleaning it you might of gotten to much oil on the K&N filter and passed it on to the MAF sensor
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Old 10-22-2010
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I'll check for both.. Thanks guy's. It came pre-oiled and I didn't add anymore to it. It didn't seem like too much but I'll double check to be safe.
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Old 10-24-2010
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I have had my K&N in for 3 years and get these codes all the time. I even cleaned the MAF sensor and the entire tube and tightened everything. No leaks detected anywhere. Still threw the code 5 miles down the road.... Now i Just keep my code scanner in the truck and clear it when I need too... ie inspection time.
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Old 10-24-2010
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the o2 sensor is in the exhaust not the intake. the sensor at the end of the intake you unplugged is the MAF sensor...K&N filters are junk and i wouldnt use one on my lawnmower, it is the root of your problems because the MAF sensor can not keep up with the flow of the k&n most likely
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Old 10-25-2010
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Originally Posted by Toreador4x4 View Post
the o2 sensor is in the exhaust not the intake. the sensor at the end of the intake you unplugged is the MAF sensor...K&N filters are junk and i wouldnt use one on my lawnmower, it is the root of your problems because the MAF sensor can not keep up with the flow of the k&n most likely
I have the K&N intake and I have no issues whatsoever about 15,000 miles with it

the thing alot of guys forget to do is to unplug the battery when installing it so when you plug it in and start up the truck it goes into learning mode and it adjusts according to the change (ie addition of performance parts) as long as its not too radical of a change it will run fine
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Old 10-25-2010
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yea mine has been fine for the 4000 i put on(knock wood lol)
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Old 10-25-2010
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OK - Every post above mine is mostly wrong, or all wrong.

If you know for a fact that your filter has been installed correctly (no leaks) and you are getting lean codes, it has to do with your long term fuel trims. (assuming the filter itself is causing the problem)

When the MAF estimates flow it does so because its been calibrated for the stock intake. When you change the intake the geometry and calibration is thrown off. The oxygen sensors end up seeing leaner mixtures than expected and the software in the ECU increases the pulsewidth on the closed loop fuel KAM table. The short term trims then go closer to zero, and the long term trims are positive. If they get too positive (I forget how much %) the ECU throws a code.

This is the very reason I recommend a dyno tune (or a street tune) for people who have aftermarket intakes.

I wrote a beautiful diagnosis thread for rich/lean codes on either RF, or FRF (can't remember)

I suggest you find that and read it.

Everyone who's posted above me needs to learn a bit more on closed loop fuel techniques here.

Oh - and you wasted your money on this intake. It's not going to make your truck any faster.
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  #10  
Old 10-26-2010
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Oh - and you wasted your money on this intake. It's not going to make your truck any faster.
i beg to differ...i think it was worth every penny...no it doesnt make your truck any faster but it does wonders for throttle response and it sounds badass when you start it in the morning and when you jam the skinny pedal
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Old 10-26-2010
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i beg to differ...i think it was worth every penny...no it doesnt make your truck any faster but it does wonders for throttle response and it sounds badass when you start it in the morning and when you jam the skinny pedal
Have you ever seen a specification for throttle response?

Engine performance is measured in terms of torque and horsepower.

If the engine reacts quicker to throttle input at low rpms that will be visible by the torque curve as compared to prior to installation.

Of the some hundreds or so cars I've tuned I've never seen this do what you say - maybe you know more than I do.

If it makes it worth every penny to make your truck sound better than that's just fine. I'd rather spend the 300 dollars that the intake costs, and buy some data logging fuel software and a wide-band sensor to actually be able to measure where the opportunities for real improvement in the timing maps and fuel table are.

But that's right - your just concerned about how "bad" it sounds when you mash the skinny pedal.
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  #12  
Old 10-26-2010
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not to mention i also avg 1-3 MPG better than when i had my stock intake on...and when i have to drive 70 miles a day every little bit helps
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Old 10-26-2010
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Originally Posted by djfllmn View Post
not to mention i also avg 1-3 MPG better than when i had my stock intake on...and when i have to drive 70 miles a day every little bit helps
Then your stock intake was extremely clogged.

If you get 1-3mpg better with an aftermarket intake than you know more than Ford. They will hire you with a 7 digit salary, because the money you will save them in CAFE research/design requirements is uncalculable.

You are either an engineering mastermind, or full of BS. I vote the latter.
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  #14  
Old 10-26-2010
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no my stock intake was fine...and i do get better mileage...do you have one on your truck? no so you wouldnt know
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  #15  
Old 10-26-2010
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Originally Posted by djfllmn View Post
no my stock intake was fine...and i do get better mileage...do you have one on your truck? no so you wouldnt know
I get parts like that for free because the companies pay me to test them. I recalibrate ECU's for a living.

I have a K&N replacement filter in my 04 and it made no difference what so ever. I didn't pay for the part and the factory filter was a year and a half old so I changed it.

If you worked on building and tuning engines for a living you'd know that the head is the restriction. The surfaces are cast, narrow and transitions are violent. The valves are small, the openings are narrow and the cams don't lift them long enough, or high enough.

Last edited by Jp7; 10-26-2010 at 08:03 AM.
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  #16  
Old 10-26-2010
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lucky s.o.b...how the hell did you end up with a job like that?
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  #17  
Old 10-26-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jp7 View Post
OK - Every post above mine is mostly wrong, or all wrong.

If you know for a fact that your filter has been installed correctly (no leaks) and you are getting lean codes, it has to do with your long term fuel trims. (assuming the filter itself is causing the problem)

When the MAF estimates flow it does so because its been calibrated for the stock intake. When you change the intake the geometry and calibration is thrown off. The oxygen sensors end up seeing leaner mixtures than expected and the software in the ECU increases the pulsewidth on the closed loop fuel KAM table. The short term trims then go closer to zero, and the long term trims are positive. If they get too positive (I forget how much %) the ECU throws a code.

This is the very reason I recommend a dyno tune (or a street tune) for people who have aftermarket intakes.

I wrote a beautiful diagnosis thread for rich/lean codes on either RF, or FRF (can't remember)

I suggest you find that and read it.

Everyone who's posted above me needs to learn a bit more on closed loop fuel techniques here.

Oh - and you wasted your money on this intake. It's not going to make your truck any faster.
You must think you are the king of tuning if you knew better you would know that this actually DOES help.If you data log while driving it for at least 20 miles this is how long it takes the computer to relearn you will see changes in fuel trim tables I know some ford techs that verified this I tune my cars also and I know all about tuning if you tune the car via a tuning device of your choice to the mods it will respond better I agree on that but to put down people for buying stuff is just plain lame .I bought the truck with the intake already and it definately helps with fuel economy not astronamical but it does I verified this with another ranger and you can feel the improvement .The intake wont make the truck a racer on the street but it helps with gas mileage as long as you don't over oil the filter and clean the MAF sensor and reset the computer after that.
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  #18  
Old 10-26-2010
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^finally some support on the better mileage and throttle response...thank you
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  #19  
Old 10-26-2010
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I've had both...A K&N FIPK and stock. Nothing changed besides more intake noise, which I didn't care for. I sold the FIPK on craiglist for more then I paid. I guess that is one benifit of it.

To the original poster, Did you knock a line off the intake when changing the filter? Seen it before.
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Old 10-26-2010
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JP7, not sure if it applies on Ford only or not, but when the LTFT and STFT are maxed out at 25% or -25% it will illuminate the CEL for a lean or rich condition

fordtech, if you were a ford tech, you would know that 20 miles is not how long it takes to complete a drive cycle, there is no fixed distance. the PCM will not complete an OBDII drive cycle until all the conditions described in the PC/ED or workshop manual have been met
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  #21  
Old 11-02-2010
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WOW... An epic battle.. In response to those who are looking to help me, all the hoses are connected, the codes have been cleared with a scanner and after a few days it has come back. Haven't disconnected the battery, I will try that tomorrow.

For the record I only purchased the cone filter, the rest is stock. I cut the intake tube from the stock air box and the cone fits perfectly on the 2.5" tip just before the MAF sensor. All is tightened securely and filter rests in a closed (to engine bay) cold air box.

Also for the record, despite whatever technical specs can be conjured up, I physically notice gains in throttle where the pedal seemed to give no change in acceleration shortly after the half way point I now notice significant gains at both city and highway speeds. Passing is significantly easier. A drop in K&N also made a significant difference in my R1, as well as the one in my wife's Yaris and my brothers S10 with no issues from any of them. Thus I would not have changed this one without having proof of it's noticeable gains.

If anyone knows of a way to get around this please speak up, I've never known a vehicle to have issues from a filter change. This vehicle seems to dislike change when all others I've had ran better with upgrades.
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  #22  
Old 11-02-2010
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even if you have cleaned the MAF sensor clean it again. Spray it with some cleaner and clean it CAREFULLY with a cuetip .But before you do this unplug the battery for at least an hour and then put it all together and wait another ten mins and then plug in the battery and turn it on this code has to do with the MAF sensor since alll you did was change out the filter this is the only thing that could be wrong also clean out the sensor plug with electric parts cleaner.

And it does take 20 miles for all the systems on the vehicle to run their first cycle I've had cars that ran fine for 20 miles and then throw a code this is after all the engine management systems are fully in sync that why a car will run fine right after you first hook on the battery even though its throwing codes after a while.

Last edited by fordtech; 11-02-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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  #23  
Old 11-03-2010
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well the ECM in our trucks are two trip systems...that means it will throw a code if it sees a problem for 2 consecutive trips
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Old 11-03-2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtech View Post
even if you have cleaned the MAF sensor clean it again. Spray it with some cleaner and clean it CAREFULLY with a cuetip .But before you do this unplug the battery for at least an hour and then put it all together and wait another ten mins and then plug in the battery and turn it on this code has to do with the MAF sensor since alll you did was change out the filter this is the only thing that could be wrong also clean out the sensor plug with electric parts cleaner.

And it does take 20 miles for all the systems on the vehicle to run their first cycle I've had cars that ran fine for 20 miles and then throw a code this is after all the engine management systems are fully in sync that why a car will run fine right after you first hook on the battery even though its throwing codes after a while.
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Originally Posted by djfllmn View Post
well the ECM in our trucks are two trip systems...that means it will throw a code if it sees a problem for 2 consecutive trips
there are some systems that require the vehicle to complete one, two or numerous drive cycles for the CEL to illuminate, not just two trips in the vehicle, but two drive cycles of the PCM...there are some systems like MAF that are constant monitor systems, as soon as you unplug the MAF the CEL will go on...fodtech, i hope you dont work at a dealership, thats one of the first things you are taught in ford training is what has to happen to complete an OBDII drive cycle

here...

Description of On Board Diagnostic (OBD) Drive Cycle
The following procedure is designed to execute and complete the OBD monitors and to clear the Ford P1000, inspection/maintenance (I/M) readiness code. To complete a specific monitor for repair verification, follow steps 1 through 4, then continue with the step described by the appropriate monitor found under the OBD Monitor Exercised column. For the EVAP/secondary AIR monitor to run, the ambient air temperature must be between 4.4 to 37.8C (40 to 100F), and the altitude below 2,438 meters (8,000 feet). If the P1000 code must be cleared in these conditions, the powertrain control module (PCM) must detect them once (twice on some applications) before the EVAP monitor can be bypassed and diagnostic trouble code (DTC) P1000 is cleared. The EVAP bypassing procedure is described in the following drive cycle.

The OBD drive cycle is carried out using a scan tool. Refer to the manufacturer's instruction manual for each described function.

A detailed description for clearing the DTCs is found in this section. Refer to Clear The Continuous Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) And Reset The Emission Monitors Information in The Powertrain Control Module (PCM).

Drive Cycle Recommendations
WARNING Strict observance of posted speed limits and attention to driving conditions are mandatory when proceeding through the following drive cycles. Failure to follow these instructions may result in personal injury.
1. Most OBD monitors complete more readily using a steady foot driving style during cruise or acceleration modes. Operating the throttle in a smooth fashion minimizes the time required for monitor completion.
2. The fuel tank level should be between 1/2 and 3/4 full with 3/4 full being the most desirable.
3. The evaporative monitor can operate only during the first 30 minutes of engine operation. When executing the procedure for this monitor, stay in part throttle mode and drive in a smooth fashion to minimize fuel slosh.
4. When bypassing the EVAP engine soak times, the PCM must remain powered (ignition ON) after clearing the continuous DTCs and relearning emission diagnostic information.

For best results, follow each of the following steps as accurately as possible:

OBD Monitor Exercised Drive Cycle Procedure Purpose of Drive Cycle Procedure
Drive Cycle Preparation Note To bypass the EVAP soak timer (normally 6 hours), the PCM must remain powered after clearing the continuous DTCs and resetting the emission monitors information in the PCM.
1. Install the scan tool. Turn the ignition on with the engine off. Cycle the ignition off, then on. If needed, select the appropriate vehicle and engine qualifier. Clear the continuous DTCs and reset the emission monitors information in the PCM. Bypasses the engine soak timer. Resets the OBD monitor status.
2. Begin to monitor the following PIDs (if available): ECT, EVAPDC, FLI and TP MODE. Start the vehicle without returning the ignition to the OFF position.
3. Idle the vehicle for 15 seconds. Drive at 64 km/h (40 mph) until the engine coolant temperature (ECT) is at least 76.7C (170F). Executes SEC AIR flow check monitor (if applicable).
Prep for Monitor Entry
4. Is the intake air temperature (IAT) between 4.4 to 37.8C (40 to 100F)? If not, complete the following steps, but note that step 14 is required to bypass the EVAP/secondary AIR monitor and clear DTC P1000. Engine warm-up and provides IAT input to the PCM.
HEGO
5. Cruise at 64 km/h (40 mph) for at least 5 minutes. Executes the HO2S monitor.
EVAP
6. Cruise at 64 to 89 km/h (40 to 55 mph) for 10 minutes (avoid sharp turns and hills). NOTE: To initiate the monitor, the throttle should be at part throttle, EVAPDC must be greater than 75%, and FLI must be between 15 and 85%, and for fuel tanks over 25 gallons FLI must be between 30 and 85%. Executes the EVAP monitor if the IAT is between 4.4 to 37.8C (40 to 100F).
Catalyst
7. Drive in stop and go traffic conditions. Include 5 different constant cruise speeds, ranging from 32 to 89 km/h (20 to 55 mph) over a 10 minute period. Executes the catalyst monitor.
EGR
8. From a stop, accelerate to 72 km/h (45 mph) at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle. Repeat 3 times. Executes the EGR monitor.
SEC AIR/CCM (Engine)
9. Bring the vehicle to a stop. Idle with the transmission in drive (neutral for M/T) for 2 minutes. Executes the idle air control (IAC) portion of the comprehensive component monitor (CCM) and the SEC AIR functional check (if applicable).
CCM (Transmission)
10. For M/T, accelerate from 0 to 81 km/h (0 to 50 mph), and continue to step 12. For A/T, from a stop and in overdrive, moderately accelerate to 81 km/h (50 mph) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop the vehicle and repeat without overdrive to 64 km/h (40 mph) cruising for at least 30 seconds. While at 64 km/h (40 mph), activate the overdrive, accelerate to 81 km/h (50 mph) and cruise for at least 15 seconds. Stop for at least 20 seconds and repeat step 10 five times. Executes the transmission portion of the CCM.
Misfire and Fuel Monitors
11. From a stop, accelerate to 97 km/h (60 mph). Decelerate at closed throttle to 64 km/h (40 mph) (no brakes). Repeat this 3 times. Allows learning for the misfire monitor.
Readiness Check
12. Access the On-Board System Readiness (OBD monitor status) function on the scan tool. Determine whether all non-continuous monitors have completed. If not, go to step
13. Determines if any monitor has not completed.
Pending Code Check and EVAP Monitor Bypass Check 13. With the scan tool, check for pending codes. Conduct the normal repair procedures for any pending code concern. Otherwise, repeat any incomplete monitor. If the EVAP monitor or SEC AIR monitor is not complete and the IAT was out of the 4.4 to 37.8C (40 to 100F) temperature range in step 4, or the altitude is over 2438 m (8000 ft.), the EVAP bypass procedure must be followed. Go to Step 14. Determines if a pending code is preventing the clearing of DTC P1000.
EVAP Monitor Bypass
14. Park the vehicle for a minimum of 8 hours. Repeat steps 2 through 11. Do not repeat step 1. Allows the bypass counter to increment to 2.
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  #25  
Old 11-03-2010
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thanks for clearing that up justin...i didnt know it was a mix of a trip system and constant monitor
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