with price of gas skyrocketing wondering if worthwhile converting my 4.0 ohv to run e85... i know less power.. anyone try it? one concern i seen thus far is a lack of filling stations

 

go to fueleconomy.gov i was looking at a e85 powered 4.7l dakota, the only way it would be cheaper to run the dak on e85 instead of gas would be if e85 was $2.50 a gallon and gas was $4.00 a gallon, at the current prices it costs about $2000 more a year to run that truck on e85....i would love to stick it to the arabs but id rather keep my $2000

 

Give up the idea. E85 is crap, it causes internal engine wear due to the alcohol washing the oil out of the cylinders as well as all of the driveability issues that come with it not to mention what a waste of money it is.

 

so if a vehicle is said to run it, couldnt you sue ford for any engine damage done by e85?


I've only tried it once in my 04 trac, and i didnt notice a difference, but gas mileage as defiently not there

 

just one option i am concerning ( not worthwhile to trade ranger in HUGE loss on my part if i did!) other is a small street bike but the way new yorkers drive not rushing into that idea.. just starting reading about e85 yesterday prior to that never really heard of it ( lack of filling stations may contribute to that) around here heard e85 is about $3 a gallon isn't there a porion of gasoline mixed in it to give it lubricating properties or just not enough? kits are available to convert for just over $400

e85 has worse mileage from what i read anyways ( less power in a gallon of e85 vs gasoline) i believe the gain is cost per gallon?

 

Everyone says it has worse MPG, but I am on my second tank and getting the same mileage I did on 87.

 

e85 is about 2/3 as efficient as gasoline so it would have to be 2/3 of the price to make it worth it. That will never happen because the e85 has to get to the gas station somehow (using a gasoline powered tanker). It is however equivalent to 105 octane gasoline.

 

Unless your truck/4.0 is setup to run both gas and E85, then you shouldn't be putting it in your tank. The only 4.0's setup to run both fuels is in the Explorer and the Explorer Sport Trac and it is an option in those.

In conclusion, NOT all engines can or are setup to run E85.

 

How many times will the real facts about ethanol have to be said on this board?

Ethanol contains less energy per unit of mass than gasoline does. However, ethanol has an equivilant octane rating of 110. Higher octane means and engine can have higher compression and/or more advanced timing. Higher compression and more advanced timing both make an engine run more efficent. Thus, an engine that is equiped to run E85 and gasoline can (and many do) constantly push the timing forward untill the engine begins to detonate prematurely and the timing will be backed off. When the engine is running gasoline the timing will be retarded, E85 and the timing will be advanced. Thus, similar power output and milage can be had with E85. Make an engine to run strictly on E85 and you can get more power output and better milage. Ethanol isnt used in automotive racing because it makes less power and is less efficent.

Ethanol does not cause premature engine wear. Gasoline dissolves oil just as well as ethanol.

Ethanol combustion emits less carbon monoxide and burns more completely (meaning less unburned fuel for the cats to deal with) than gasoline. NOx emmissions at the head are higher but that is fixed by the cat not having to deal with as much carbon monoxide and unburned fuel.

Ethanol also has a neat property that increases the efficency of combustion. It requires more energy to atomize/vaporize ethanol. Thus, when it is injected it saps more heat out of the air resulting in a cooler, more dense charge.

Gasoline has no useful lubrication properties, and neither does ethanol. Ethanol is corrosive to certian metals. Thus, ethanol vehicles have stainless steel and brass fuel line fittings.

Any gasoline engine can be run with ethanol if you convert your fuel system over. When I built my Kart I took a briggs 8hp motor, modified the combustion chamber for higher compression and less hot spots, converted the carburator to brass fittings (needles, fittings, lines, etc...) and advanced the timing by moving the magneto. The kart felt like it had nearly doubled its power output.

The problem with converting engines to ethanol that werent intended to run ethanol is that the timing will not be self adjusting meaning that the engine will have noticable power and mileage loss. If all dodge did to that dakota is swap in a new fuel system....that is the reason for thoes results.

 

I think the U.S. ought to go to Hydrogen powered vehicles vs. the ethanol powered vehicles. When hydrogen is burnt it turns into good ole H2O (that is water for the people who don't know).

 

Hydrogen comes from the electrolysis of water. That energy comes from the power plants which burn natural gas and coal to make power. But we can assume that once it is implemented we will be largely geo-thermal, wind, hydro-electric, and nuclear powered.

Hydrogen fuel cells are in their infancy. For small communter vehicles it is more efficent to run battery powered cars. As size and and distance driven increases, however, hydrogen becomes a more viable option (geater energy density). But it still presents the problem of having a tank of highly compressed hydrogen gas on board. If a 50gallon tank of liquid fuel catches fire in a wreck we have a big, slow fire. If a tank of hydrogen is ruptured and ignited we have a hindenburg on the highway.

But we need to keep all of our options open. Each fuel has its drawback. Ethanol has the problem of industrial production on a scale that meets US demands.

 

I have put e85 into my truck the past couple times Ive flled it up. There was a drop of 1 mpg, but it was not sluggish at all, so Im going to use it for now on.

 

Technology is in place for hydrogen to be safe. GM and BMW both have vehicles on the road now that are hydrogen powered.

Hydrogen Powered Equinox:


Cut away:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14848423/

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...sTNlAXDAkk1+s=




http://www.hydrogen-fuel.org/

 

If your tuck isnt set up to run E85 DO NOT USE IT. It will eat at your hoses and tubes and then deposit that rubber in your cylinders. You can goto a JY and get all the hoses and tubes off of a explorer set up to run E85 for under $50.

 

There were some 4.0's that were set up as Flex Fuel, it was in the late 90's I think. One of the mods on RPS had one.

Like I said, I am running it, no change in MPG, it has a bit more pep, I am only paying $3.30 a gallon, and I am running clean. E85 does have its down falls, but I will burn it as long as it is available.

 

My Sport Trac is setup for it. I would love to try running it more, I just dont have e85 close enough to make it worth the trip to fillup

 

One guy here on the board is setting up an ethanol-only machine with 11:1 compression and optimized timing. With the 105 octane it should be a monster. I don't want to reveal who it is in case it's not being talked about yet -- I just haven't been following the topics on some of these builds that are in progress.

 

It was like that here for a long time, the closest place was some NASA facility in Houston. The Kroger, a chain of grocery stores started selling it in select locations. Now there are about 6 of them scattered across DFW. The biggest problem is that Only 2 pumps have E85, so you have to wait a bit longer if there is a line.

And Scott, The Kroger 5.4 miles from your coordinates (@ the intersection of Broad & Lancaster) has E85 according to this website.

http://www.e85refueling.com/distance.php?page=2

 

Yeah, thats the one i went to before


but i just moved to maine, and its one of the remaining blue states on that map

 

there are kits available to convert for about $400 so unless it includes fuel line, fittings..not a viable option? its about 4.09 here my worry at rate the fuel price going up going to be $5 a gallon by winter...its not even june yet!

 

Ahh, didn't know you moved, its cold up there.

 

Electric cars are the best thing. Hydrogen cars currently cost around a million a piece, and then the maintence costs outweigh the saving at the moment. You want to screw the Arabs over? By a GM Volt coming out soonand has 3 modes at the moment. 40 miles, 200 miles, and 500 miles.

 

makes getting a programmer a more attractive purchase to me anyways ( only way to change timing,etc?)

 

I ran E85 in my 2000 a lot when I worked in St Louis and drove back and forth a lot. It burns faster so in the long run I didnt see any saving aside from the environment.