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Old 09-13-2010
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advice? building a sweet sound system

I am looking to build a sweet sound system for my ranger. I am kind of new to building car sounds systems. I have done some research. The main disatvantage is that I don't have a audio store nearby to listen stuff, but this is what I'm thinking.

Head unit
Pioneer avh-p3200dvd (looked at the 4200, but I don't think I will use the dvd too much)

Speakers (this is where I'm stuck)
I want either 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 round speakers to put in the front door panels (if they'll fit)
Pioneer d series or
JL Audio c2


Subwoofer
JL Audio 12w7 in prowedge (got to measure hope it fits behind the drivers seat)
powered by a jl audio 1000.1


Is this good or should I scrap it and start over. I'm planning on building it over a couple months.
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Old 09-14-2010
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There is an old saying in the audio industry Good speakers in a great box will sound better then great speakers in a crappy box.
Before you spend all your money on components. Spend the money on some good sound insulation material, Dyna-mat is good but over priced there are a few other brands out that are good but I don't know why they think there stuff is worth so much.
There are a lot of cheaper alternatives.
Such as:
EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, classic cars, street rods and much more
Automotive Heat, Sound and Noise Insulation
Sound Deadener Fatmat 100 sq ft Bulk Pal
For just a few examples, don't get me wrong Dynamat is a good product it has it's strong points not just sound but for heat also it is just way over priced.
Spend the money on the box (cab) and buy good speakers and components and you will have a better overall system then someone who bought the best of everything and did't insulate.
Why do you want to go with a 6" round speaker in your doors when there are great replacement speakers out there that fit the oem holes.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Thanks I'll Look into sound insulation. Is it hard to install? I was going with round speakers cause I was under the impression that are better for mid-bass and highs. I was also looking at component speakers, which mostly come as round speakers.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Originally Posted by 99fordranger View Post
Thanks I'll Look into sound insulation. Is it hard to install? I was going with round speakers cause I was under the impression that are better for mid-bass and highs. I was also looking at component speakers, which mostly come as round speakers.
Your assumption is true to a point, with any multi-component speaker i.e. two way three way etc. there are trade offs but todays modern speakers are all pretty good in the sound quality arena. Where they differ is in there ability to take power and maintain sound quality.
The frame is as important as the magnet and hinge material. cheap frames will distort on a oblong speaker more than a round speaker of the same material and design.
Speaker manufactures know this and will design in fixes to eliminate this going with forged rather then a cast or stamped frame or even going with a composite material.
Fortunately for the manufactures most people can't hear the difference.
I worked for a couple years for the worlds largest speaker manufacturer who had a plant here in socal. They made speakers for all the top brands like Kenwood, Sony, Yamaha, and JBL to name a few. They didn't make Bose as they are an entity to themselves and have there own technology (more the box than the speaker).
They did all kinds of testing using all kinds of speakers what they learned was to get great sound build a great box seal it up tight and port where needed (lots of science) mainly consistency of material MDF makes the best boxes thicker is better.
So the engineering has been done, round speakers are better but oblong is still good. Insulate your cab pick speakers that sound good to you and enjoy the music.
Insulating isn't hard it is just time consuming. besides doing the floor and walls do the roof and do the doors it is also important to put some material behind the speaker on the inside of the door skin or mount your speakers into enclosures set into the door there are rubber enclosures made to do this and they work good.
Besides the benefit for sound the insulation will eliminate a lot of road noise (floor) and heat (roof) making your vehicle more enjoyable to drive.
Here is a link to my cardomain site for my truck you can get an idea of what is required to do the sound insulation. http://www.cardomain.com/id/Jakedog
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Old 09-14-2010
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Ok Awesome thanks for all your help I'll look in to sound proofing and take another look at some speaker options.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Dynamt is exactly like Monster (AUdio/Video Cable Company) It comes in a nice fancy package, that claims its beter then all others for a 500% increase in markup. When realistically, there is much better out there for a fraction of the price.

I would recommend part of the fatmat series - Rattletrap.. 100^ Rattle Trap Sound Deadener Noise Killer as when I go to do mine it will be the type I plan on going with, thin, pliable, and very acoustically dampening.
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Old 09-14-2010
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I used Fatman on the inside of my vehicle and it improved the OEM Radio Sound a lot.
Quieted the cab down A LOT too !
Fatman was cheaper than DynaMat and I for one would not need anything better.
My next step is speaker replacement and door sound deadening.

So as TR stated do some sound deadening first or at the same time and include the Speaker Enclosures too.

I am also with you on the speaker thing, 6.5” Rd Component vs 6x6 co- or tri-axile, the 6.5" will need a little trimming in the doors but shouldn’t be a big problem BUT my problem is what about the grille work vs the Door Panel Grille ?

Maybe just use some D-Series 6x8 tri-axiles and get it over with.

Thanks for starting this, I am the same boat and need help too !
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Old 09-14-2010
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What do you guys think about doing q-logic kick panel enclosures w/ 5.25'' components for the highs and then doing 6.5/ 6.75'' or 6x8 coaxles in the doors for the mids? I have to say I'm with scrambler82. Is it worth the work for 6.5/6.75 or should I just go with 6x8's. Also has anybody compared JL with Pioneer for sound quality?
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Old 09-14-2010
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One more thing about speakers… me, I am not an audiophile, I have a tin ear for the most part so high end speakers would not be much different than lower speakers.

IMHO… I believe that most of the mid to high range speakers today are built the same.

If you buy decent speaker, i.e. Pioneer D-Series, then you are going to get far better music than OEM and if you want more bass then add a sub.

Please feel free to whip me down, I’ve been owned before and want to learn.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Originally Posted by Scrambler82 View Post
One more thing about speakers… me, I am not an audiophile, I have a tin ear for the most part so high end speakers would not be much different than lower speakers.

IMHO… I believe that most of the mid to high range speakers today are built the same.

If you buy decent speaker, i.e. Pioneer D-Series, then you are going to get far better music than OEM and if you want more bass then add a sub.

Please feel free to whip me down, I’ve been owned before and want to learn.
No whipping here, my advice spend what you can afford but let your ear tell you what sounds good to you. If your going to amp it go with something that can handle the power.
I personally like Polk Audio but thats my choice, I am no expert just worked with some and tried to learn what I could. Speakers are like what WowMike2001 said about Dyna-mat sometimes you get what you pay for sometimes you pay for what you get.
Spend your money wisely and you can build an great system for not to much of an investment.
My system is listed in my sig. with less then a grand invested it serves me well does what I want it to do and cost what I could afford.
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Old 09-14-2010
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Anybody have any opinions on which ones better to go with JL or pioneer for the speakers?
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Old 09-15-2010
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I have used Pioneer Speakers in most of my previous vehicles and always liked them.
Thought this time to try something different but I am moving back to the PIoneer Speaker little by little and thinking on the D-Series Speakers if any.

ltr
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  #13  
Old 09-15-2010
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look at Phoenix Gold for speakers, u can get them at a good price on ebay. and for subs look at DC, fi, old RE, IA, Sundown. and for amps: sundown, audioque.
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Old 09-15-2010
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Originally Posted by 99fordranger View Post
Anybody have any opinions on which ones better to go with JL or pioneer for the speakers?
Nothing wrong with either brand, was listening to some Pioneer 6.5 components the other day that sounded quite nice, Pioneer has a new line called Stage 4, the 6.75 components are $899.99 at Crutchfield, way too rich for my blood. Also when I bought my JL 5x7's, I was listening to some much more expensive MB Quarts and my ears liked the Jl's better, you just need to get out to a few shops and listen to as many brands as you can.

Last edited by smcasey88; 09-15-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-15-2010
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Originally Posted by smcasey88 View Post
Nothing wrong with either brand, was listening to some Pioneer 6.5 components the other day that sounded quite nice, Pioneer has a new line called Stage 4, the 6.75 components are $899.99 at Crutchfield, way too rich for my blood. Also when I bought my JL 5x7's, I was listening to some much more expensive MB Quarts and my ears liked the Jl's better, you just need to get out to a few shops and listen to as many brands as you can.
After working for a place that made speakers (and I mean a lot of speakers 180,000 month) The name on the speaker sometimes doesn't mean much nor does the price.
Speakers are made to the customers design but basic components were pretty much the same.
Magnet size, frame, hinge and cone material are what make a difference in a speaker and how it sounds.
The price had something to do with it but it was not what determined the quality of the unit.
So use your ear to tell you what is a good sounding speaker the materials will determine how it handles power and weather it will have longevity.
If you are not going to push a lot of power through it you don't need a top shelf unit.
If you want a good system that has great sound, adjustably is the key, cross-overs and a good eq. will allow you to adjust your system to match your vehicle and type of music you listen to,
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Old 09-15-2010
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Originally Posted by the Answer View Post
look at Phoenix Gold for speakers, u can get them at a good price on ebay. and for subs look at DC, fi, old RE, IA, Sundown. and for amps: sundown, audioque.
i disagree on PG. i have a sub and amp of theres in my car and its not great. the sound is good, dont get me wrong, but the sub is just crap. the quality is sad really. but its a few years old now, maybe 3.

on to subject

i think your list is good, if that is what you want. if your wanting to build an awsome stereo you will need to amp the components, and and an EQ. not a whole lot more in terms in the money your spending, but well worth it.
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Old 09-15-2010
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Originally Posted by Turbo Roadster View Post
After working for a place that made speakers (and I mean a lot of speakers 180,000 month) The name on the speaker sometimes doesn't mean much nor does the price.
Speakers are made to the customers design but basic components were pretty much the same.
Magnet size, frame, hinge and cone material are what make a difference in a speaker and how it sounds.
The price had something to do with it but it was not what determined the quality of the unit.
So use your ear to tell you what is a good sounding speaker the materials will determine how it handles power and weather it will have longevity.
If you are not going to push a lot of power through it you don't need a top shelf unit.
If you want a good system that has great sound, adjustably is the key, cross-overs and a good eq. will allow you to adjust your system to match your vehicle and type of music you listen to,
Oh I agree with you and you have given the op alot of good advice in this thread, fwiw though I have not actually listened to the stage 4 Pioneers though, they were just standard Pioneer components and I liked them alot. And just like you said even Bose uses marginal speakers, it's all in the enclosure, I once knew an installer that went to school to learn how to build enclosures, he could take one 10" sub and build a box and you would swear it was two 12" subs
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2010
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Ok awesome thanks for all the imput guys. Im going to look around a little bit, but its a little challenging to listen to anything as there is nothing for audio stores around here. Shoot its even a 2 1/2 hour drive to walmart. All the decent audio stores are a lot further. I hate to purchase speakers without listening to them, but I'm not sure when the next time I will be going out of town is. I definatly am going to work on some sound proofing for the cab. Almost positve I'm going to amp all the speakers rather then power them off the head unit too .
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Old 09-18-2010
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buy, test, sell, buy, test, sell,

Start basic. buy some cheap, well reviewed 6 1/2" or 6 3/4" component speakers.
Amazon.com: Phoenix Gold RSD6.5CS 6.5" Radial SD Series 2-way Component System: Electronics
and nice powerful 2 channel amp. 100w rms per channel.Dial those in, sound deaden (no need to go overboard), seal doors, properly adjust gains and crossovers.

Bass is next, get a 300w rms @ 4 ohms amplifier to start with.
buy a prebuilt sealed sub/box 10 or 12" that is rated at 4 ohms, and less then 300w power handling.adjust gains, crossovers. learn how too tune that setup till it sounds great.

those are all you should need for a basic, great sounding, well rounded setup.
post back here once your get that system sounding the best your can.
then if your lacking something you can go from there.
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Old 10-02-2010
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Ok I got some of my system in

My Head unit, Pioneer avh-p3200dvd



My front speakers, Pioneer 6.5 D series



My rear speakers, Pioneer 6x8 D series



How did you people with the 6x8 pioneers get yours to fit in the rear? Seems like I might have to trim a little bit.
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Old 10-02-2010
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Good start.. whats your next move?

Im running very similar pioneer ts-d720c components running active. They can really handle power well.
The tweets alone are taking 40wrms a piece, The mids are on 100wrms a piece. They fricken jam on lots of power, those speakers are built very similar so I suspect they will handle similar power levels.
the problem I had was the tweeters are very sensitive so they tend to sound too "bright" long before the mids are powered properly, that was remedied by going active with the set. basically what Im saying is defiantly amp them! like you mentioned before.
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Old 10-02-2010
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Originally Posted by 99fordranger View Post
Ok I got some of my system in
My front speakers, Pioneer 6.5 D series



My rear speakers, Pioneer 6x8 D series



How did you people with the 6x8 pioneers get yours to fit in the rear? Seems like I might have to trim a little bit.
Those are the same ones I ordered; good choice.
I plan on 10" JL pwrd sub.
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Old 10-02-2010
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Good start.. whats your next move?

Im running very similar pioneer ts-d720c components running active. They can really handle power well.
The tweets alone are taking 40wrms a piece, The mids are on 100wrms a piece. They fricken jam on lots of power, those speakers are built very similar so I suspect they will handle similar power levels.
the problem I had was the tweeters are very sensitive so they tend to sound too "bright" long before the mids are powered properly, that was remedied by going active with the set. basically what Im saying is defiantly amp them! like you mentioned before.

Cool, I can't wait to install them. I just ordered a jl audio 300/4 to power them. I also am expecting a bulk pack of fatmat rattle trap.
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Old 10-02-2010
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Those are the same ones I ordered; good choice.
I plan on 10" JL pwrd sub.
Awesome, I'm Hoping to run a JL sub too. Which enclosure are you looking at?
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Old 10-11-2010
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Got my jl 300/4 and 1000/1 in. Starting to get excited the rear 6x8 sound awesome for being powered off the head unit. Does anyone have good sub box plans for a angled box facing the seat or in towards the cab?
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