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Old 05-03-2006
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Non flex to run e85?

Hey everybody. I have a 2003 2.3l ranger. I have heard that you can reprogram the computer to run e85. Any ideas? I have also been told by a mechanic friend of mine that the computer is the only difference between the non flex and flex fuel versions. Any help would be appriciated. Thanks!
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Old 05-03-2006
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No, you can't just do that. You also need new injectors. It requires more E85 for the same amount of air and the conventional fuel injectors can't keep up. E85 capable vehicles have fuel injectors rated for 1.5 to 2 times the capacity of non-flex vehicles, so your mechanic is probably wrong. It's possible Ford used the bigger injectors in all 2.3's -- but that doesn't sound like Ford.

My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.

Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
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Old 05-03-2006
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To add to what John said, E85 is very uhh, "acidic", it will eat normal hoses and seals and metal connectors. In a flex fuel vehicle they make the seals and hoses of a different material that is much more resistant to the effects of E85.

Aaron
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Old 05-03-2006
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Dead on, Aaron. E85 combines the best of two chemical "solvents", and probably amplifies the action of both. There are only a few materials which can withstand both of them and they are more expensive generally. Most automakers probably don't build with more expensive parts just to do it, lol...

It may be, as ethanol is added more and more to gasoline, that vehicles will be built to withstand it, and probably many are already. It's just hard to KNOW that.
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Old 05-03-2006
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after all is changed over to run E85, the money spent isnt worth the little gain you get from running it
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Old 05-03-2006
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It was for me: I got a $1500 tax credit for buying a multi-fuel vehicle, lol. But that has expired now.

It's nice to think you have an alternative fuel source available -- but the problem is there is NO E85 available here for public purchase. Most of the nearest one are fleet vehicle pumps that are only accessible to the fleet of the company that owns the pumps.
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Old 05-03-2006
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There are supposedly millions of E85 vehicles on the road. All companies at points have made vehicles. My friends chevy 1500, i dont remember the engine but 4.something, which is very fast, also runs on ethanol.

The benefit of ethanol is if there's a situation where there's a lack of gas at the stations, E85 vehicles will still be able to get gas where most people cannot.

The downside is it is still 85 percent gas unfortunately.

Aaron
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Old 05-03-2006
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Actually, Aaron, it's the other way around: 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline.

And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).

You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.
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Old 05-03-2006
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I HEARD that its the same price as regular gasoline now but with half the milage....? any truth to this?


and wtf i want my 1500$s for haveing a multifuel car....
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Old 05-03-2006
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Yes, but with more horsepower, conversely enough.

Since it takes more of it, per unit of air to get the right combustion ratio, you use more per stroke. HOWEVER, it has a higher energy release than gasoline, so you do get more torque/horsepower.

Confusing, no?

And I didn't GET $1500 -- what I got was a deduction that probably got me back $300 to $500 in my tax bracket. Not complaining though.

It used to be more, but as they phased it out it reduced. For TY 2002 it was $1500 and for TY 2003 I think it dropped to $1000 and then it disappeared at some point unless it was renewed.

It may be possible to amend your return from a previous year and claim the deduction.
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Old 05-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
Actually, Aaron, it's the other way around: 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline.

And therein lies the rub: the marketplace for E85 is so spotty, there are remarkably few places to get it, even in highly populated areas like the Philadelphia Metropolitan Area (which I'm on the edge of).

You MIGHT be able to run conventional cars on a mixture the other way around, in terms of the injection and combustion and all -- I'm just not sure at what threshold the ethanol becomes excessively corrosive and dissolving.

OH dang! I always though it was wierd because it was so much gas and so little ethanol! That changes my outlook on it haha.


Quote:
Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 10-15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on the way one drives, the air pressure in the tires, and additional driving conditions..

For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.
One thing they don't point out though, is Ethanol has less BTU's than gasoline.

Aaron
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Old 05-03-2006
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^^ lol i just read that exact exerpt from the site....

anyone see any prices for it? is it more but its trying to reduce are dependance or less becuase less gas?
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Old 05-03-2006
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True, but when you put so MUCH of it in a cylinder, you get more power -- still seems contradictory, but there it is!

I misstated that saying it has more power...but the way it ends up with more of it in the cylinder, it does increase power.
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Old 05-03-2006
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Originally Posted by 4X2XLT
^^ lol i just read that exact exerpt from the site....

anyone see any prices for it? is it more but its trying to reduce are dependance or less becuase less gas?
Not sure, but I think its price will go up because of demand. And not for E85 either. More because all the refineries are using ethanol as a smog reduction additive in gasoline. I think the demand that causes may raise wholesale ethanol prices in general.
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Old 05-03-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
One thing they don't point out though, is Ethanol has less BTU's than gasoline.
um...the first line...

Quote:
Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline.
BTUs are a unit of measurement of energy!
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Old 05-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
No, you can't just do that. You also need new injectors. It requires more E85 for the same amount of air and the conventional fuel injectors can't keep up. E85 capable vehicles have fuel injectors rated for 1.5 to 2 times the capacity of non-flex vehicles, so your mechanic is probably wrong. It's possible Ford used the bigger injectors in all 2.3's -- but that doesn't sound like Ford.

My 3.0 flex-fuel has a different part number injector than the standard 3.0. This is probably true for the 2.3 if they've ever made a flex fuel version of it. For some reason, my tank assembly is different also, as is the wiring to it, but it's unclear why that is.

Also, the seals and what not are potentially different in the fuel systems of E85 vehicles. Not sure about 2003.
Right. But you can buy most of the stuff from Summit or Jags. Since e85 is mostly alcohol and a lot of racers run on alcohol. It is fairly ez to convert it to e85.
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Old 05-04-2006
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True. You can probably buy everything but the PCM from third party sources.
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Old 05-04-2006
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I think replacing all the fuel components and the pcm and whatever else, just makes trying to make your engine flex fuel just about worthless. Thats alot of money and effort for gas you can't buy hardly anywhere and doesn't give you any better gas mileage.
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Old 05-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
I think replacing all the fuel components and the pcm and whatever else, just makes trying to make your engine flex fuel just about worthless. Thats alot of money and effort for gas you can't buy hardly anywhere and doesn't give you any better gas mileage.

They need to invent a truck that runs on dirt..or saltwater, moss would do good here. Damn, if i could get a paper burning engine i'd be in business.

Aaron
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Old 05-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
They need to invent a truck that runs on dirt..or saltwater, moss would do good here. Damn, if i could get a paper burning engine i'd be in business.

Aaron
you need the thing that is on the de-lorean from BACK TO THE FUTURE 2. trash powered de-lorean. good idea.

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Old 05-04-2006
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Originally Posted by svo/ranger/stx
you need the thing that is on the de-lorean from BACK TO THE FUTURE 2. trash powered de-lorean. good idea.


I'd run my vehicle on trash but chevys wont fit in the fuel tank.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2006
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Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
I'd run my vehicle on trash but chevys wont fit in the fuel tank.
good one i like that
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2006
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Oh there is also a flex fuel sensor that can tell when you are running e85 or gasoline to change the adaptive fuel strategies and such. It's a $600 Ford only part...
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Old 05-04-2006
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In the later s, John, it's no longer used. I believe starting with mine in 2002.
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Old 05-04-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
They need to invent a truck that runs on dirt..or saltwater, moss would do good here. Damn, if i could get a paper burning engine i'd be in business.

Aaron
throw a steam engine in the truck and just filll up your bed with wood lol
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