2004 front ring/pinion gear play. - Ranger-Forums - The Ultimate Ford Ranger Resource


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Old 01-12-2016
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2004 front ring/pinion gear play.

Hey guys.

So I just finished my superlift/coilover/skyjacker leafs/supercharger install , as well as a front torsen T-2 LSD. I didn't check the rotational play in the front driveshaft before dissasembly (my mistake), however, upon dissasembly, I found everything in the d35 case to be in excellent condition. The oil was shaving clean, the ring and pinion gears both looked excellent, as well as the spider and side gears in the case. When I took the carrier out, I did not see any shims of any kind. I bought new bearings and pressed them on to the exact same spot as they were on the open diff carrier. It went in perfectly. I don't know much about setting the carrier in the correct spot, other than using the shims that are in there from the factory. I've had to do it for the ford 7.5 and 8.8", but never a d35. IT doesnt look like there is any amount of adjustability as far as the carrier goes, so I assume the tolerance must be set via the pinion?

Anyway. Once I had everything back to together and was taking the truck to get aligned this morning, I was checking bolts and shaking things to make sure everything was good underneath. I gave the front driveshaft a wiggle. it has no play in it as far as direct movements goes. The bearing on both ends (tcase and d35 pinion) are tight. However, there is right around 1/4" of rotational slop in the front driveshaft. On the rear driveshaft, there is less than an 1/8" of slop.

This slightly worries me, as I just put a $500 torsen in there, and would hate for the ring and pinion gears to start wearing and put shavings inside of it. However, since there is no adjustment of positioning for the carrier, that means my old open lsd that I pulled out would have been doing the same thing, and for the past 120k miles, and the ring and pinion and oil looked perfect when I opened it up for dissasembly.

Thoughts????

Also, a big thread will be coming with pictures of the lift and supercharger and coilovers and such.
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Old 01-12-2016
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Ring pinion

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Originally Posted by Sempertye View Post
Hey guys.

So I just finished my superlift/coilover/skyjacker leafs/supercharger install , as well as a front torsen T-2 LSD. I didn't check the rotational play in the front driveshaft before dissasembly (my mistake), however, upon dissasembly, I found everything in the d35 case to be in excellent condition. The oil was shaving clean, the ring and pinion gears both looked excellent, as well as the spider and side gears in the case. When I took the carrier out, I did not see any shims of any kind. I bought new bearings and pressed them on to the exact same spot as they were on the open diff carrier. It went in perfectly. I don't know much about setting the carrier in the correct spot, other than using the shims that are in there from the factory. I've had to do it for the ford 7.5 and 8.8", but never a d35. IT doesnt look like there is any amount of adjustability as far as the carrier goes, so I assume the tolerance must be set via the pinion?

Anyway. Once I had everything back to together and was taking the truck to get aligned this morning, I was checking bolts and shaking things to make sure everything was good underneath. I gave the front driveshaft a wiggle. it has no play in it as far as direct movements goes. The bearing on both ends (tcase and d35 pinion) are tight. However, there is right around 1/4" of rotational slop in the front driveshaft. On the rear driveshaft, there is less than an 1/8" of slop.

This slightly worries me, as I just put a $500 torsen in there, and would hate for the ring and pinion gears to start wearing and put shavings inside of it. However, since there is no adjustment of positioning for the carrier, that means my old open lsd that I pulled out would have been doing the same thing, and for the past 120k miles, and the ring and pinion and oil looked perfect when I opened it up for dissasembly.

Thoughts????

Also, a big thread will be coming with pictures of the lift and supercharger and coilovers and such.
You need to check the backlash of the ring and pinion,then check contact pattern with white grease, I can not imagine not being able to set backlash,you should have some side play,and bearings should be pressed all the way on carrier
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Old 01-12-2016
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Originally Posted by scott1469 View Post
You need to check the backlash of the ring and pinion,then check contact pattern with white grease, I can not imagine not being able to set backlash,you should have some side play,and bearings should be pressed all the way on carrier
I would think so also, but from what I could tell, there was no way to shim the carrier side to side. That is what makes me think in a d35 the backlash is set by adjusting pinion depth. But, since I didnt mess with the pinion, the depth should be good. All I did was swap the ring gear onto the new carrier with new bearings, and bolted it into the exact, and I mean exact same spot. There is no way to bolt in the carrier deeper , or too one side or the other. Since the ring gear would be re-positioned in to the exact same spot in relation to the pinion, shouldn't the backlash remain the same? In this case the backlash would be what it was from the factory.
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Old 01-13-2016
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The more I read the more I understand now that i likely need to pull the housing back out to re set the carrier. I am hoping a few people with d35 experience can chime in here. There were no shims on the carrier bearings, and i pressed the new ones on to the exact same depth. The carrier could be pushed in with all of my weight on it, but it had to be lined up perfectly so it wouldn't bind. That is my preload. It didnt fall in, but I didnt have to smack it with a hammer 20 times.
What gets me is that, even if I set it up totally wrong, how could that cause that much play between the gears. If my carrier preload is off, the ring gear could be too far to the left, causing not enough contact tooth to tooth between gears, but that doesnt seem possible to shift to the side enough to cause 1/4" of rotational slop. Help me out here guys, im pretty stressed now that school is starting up next week, and I am going to have to pull the whole housing out again. I just got the damn thing aligned. Maybe i can get the cv's out by just unbolting the top of the knuckle, and then wiggling the housing out between the drop brackets of the superlift. It looks like it might be possible.
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Old 01-13-2016
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you replaced the open differential carrier with a new limited slip carrier

the pinion gear to ring gear back lash needs to set properly

if you zero experience with back lash adjustments , refer the process to a experienced person
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Old 01-13-2016
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Originally Posted by cheese_man View Post
you replaced the open differential carrier with a new limited slip carrier

the pinion gear to ring gear back lash needs to set properly

if you zero experience with back lash adjustments , refer the process to a experienced person
Right. I have a little experience, and I am sure I could figure it out if you threw me a bone. just based on tolerances, and the fact that I didnt mess with the pinion, MY guess is I will just need to throw in a small shim on the passenger side to increase the carrier bearing preload, and tighten up the backlash a hair. I'm still hoping someone can actually chime in with knowledge on the d35, with just a carrier swap.
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Old 01-13-2016
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Pinion

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Originally Posted by Sempertye View Post
Right. I have a little experience, and I am sure I could figure it out if you threw me a bone. just based on tolerances, and the fact that I didnt mess with the pinion, MY guess is I will just need to throw in a small shim on the passenger side to increase the carrier bearing preload, and tighten up the backlash a hair. I'm still hoping someone can actually chime in with knowledge on the d35, with just a carrier swap.
It's not about preload you need to check the gear pattern and how it's set up on the drive and Coast side with white grease to see how they match and then the backlash will be somewhere I'll guess of five to ten thousands I don't know offhand you have to check the book
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Old 01-13-2016
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Originally Posted by scott1469 View Post
It's not about preload you need to check the gear pattern and how it's set up on the drive and Coast side with white grease to see how they match and then the backlash will be somewhere I'll guess of five to ten thousands I don't know offhand you have to check the book
Ok. Well, For now I am sure its fine to drive around in two wheel drive until I get the time to get back in there. Let's say I get it out of there (hopefully painfree) and put some grease on it and look at the pattern and there is too much of a gap (I would think that would show as the pattern being too close to the tip of the teeth), how would I tighten the backlash?
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Old 01-14-2016
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a magnetic base dial indicator , yellow grease and patience

the dial indicator is needed for precise back lash measurement , or you risk locking the gears solid , and that is dangerous with a live front axle .

my advise to you is --- let a experienced person do the work for you .
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Old 01-14-2016
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interestingly enough, I compared the rotational slop on my re assembled to my sisters 05 Mazda B400 4x4, and they are about the exact same. Eases my mind a bit. I do understand Though That to do it right and perfect, I need to tear it back down and set it up perfectly. I HIGHLY doubt I could cause any damage to it in the next month or so, even if I used 4x4 (already have) a little. I will keep doing research and decide if I want to buy some nice calipers and learn to do it myself or take it to a shop, but for now I am sure it is ok. It is certainly on the loose side rather than too tight.
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Old 02-03-2016
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Originally Posted by Sempertye View Post
Hey guys.

So I just finished my superlift/coilover/skyjacker leafs/supercharger install , as well as a front torsen T-2 LSD. .....
where did you buy the Torsen? eight bolts on the ring gear?
I'd like to have one in the front of my 2000.
that front D35 is indeed a different animal, the bearing saddles look to be precision cast- not machined. and the end of the pinion gear is rounded, there is no flat surface to set depth from.


Perry
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Old 02-05-2016
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I bought it direct from JTEKT on their website. I am pulling it out tomorrow and taking it to the shop to get shimmed properly for backlash, and also replacing the bearing cap bolts. I torqued them to the wrong spec and stretched them a little.

This is just a test on uploading pictures for the thread I am putting up in an hour or two....
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2004 front ring/pinion gear play.-20160108_214216.jpg  
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Old 02-05-2016
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the damage is clearly evident on the outer edges of the ring gear teeth

you can clearly see the serious wear marks from improper backlash
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Old 02-05-2016
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Oh boy......cheese_man, your eyes betray you. This picture was taken before the install. That is the ring gear as it was when I swapped it from the original carrier to to Torsen. That is the wear pattern via the backlash set from the factory. So, unless the factory got it wrong, you are mistaken. The edges are crisp, and there isn't any perceivable wear on the ring, other than the surface discoloration you see on the right. Remember, Even if it is a live axle and spinning all the time, it ha no load and no pressure. And in 4x4, the torque per wheel is halved, and each diff also experiences half the full load, so wear is a lesser issue for the front diff than the rear. Over the 115,000 miles the truck had on it, maybe 100 of them were powered in 4x4. The truck was owned by an old man prior to me buying it, and he kept the truck immaculate and never offroad.
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Old 02-05-2016
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Anyways, it is at the shop now getting the backlash set properly. It was quite a bit on the loose side, but it still had the same pattern as before, and there was a small amount, and I mean a minuscule silver sheen in the gear oil. Likely a combo of the ring/pinion not seating properly and causing additional wear, and the break in of the Torsen.

It was surprisingly simple to get the D35 SLA case out with the superlift on. I didn't have to remove the coilover or control arms or any of the bracketry. I just took off the brakes from the knuckle, unbolted the top pinch bolt for the UCA, unbolted the front of the driveshaft, and that is pretty much it. I couldnt slide the CV axles out past the coilovers until the D35 was unbolted. Then I had to tilt it to either side to allow the CV's to pass under the coilover. Then you just manhandle that thing down through the front and rear cross braces and bingo.
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Old 02-06-2016
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you can clearly see that the wear pattern is not centered

you can see wear more on 1 side of the teeth than the other , the backlash was never setup properly from the factory .

and you can never press any bearing on a newer carrier in the exact same place , because the aftermarket carriers are not the exact same length as the factory carriers .

that is why back lash always needs to be reset
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