Auto vs Stick
#1
Very true, Colin, and worth repeating as you did. The Torsen diff was already gone by the time I got this axle, and I believe the guy who bought it also did not get it. I'd stay away from that diff in those replaced axles for sure. Even if it had been there, I would not have used it.
Whoops, had to many posts when i slipt the thread, sorry man~Modslp
Whoops, had to many posts when i slipt the thread, sorry man~Modslp
Last edited by ScottG; 04-19-2005 at 08:46 PM.
#2
Can someone explain the MANUAL transmission fetish to me?
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
#3
Originally Posted by SonicRanger001
Can someone explain the MANUAL transmission fetish to me?
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
#4
#5
#6
Originally Posted by SonicRanger001
I have control just fine...if you take the time to pay attention to your RPM's you can get the auto to do just about what you want...not perfect but close...
So are there any other reasons besides that...
So are there any other reasons besides that...
#7
#8
#9
#10
#11
Originally Posted by SonicRanger001
I have control just fine...if you take the time to pay attention to your RPM's you can get the auto to do just about what you want...not perfect but close...
There's just something about operating a manual transmission. To me it makes me feel more part of the process, more like a person operating a machine, rather than a guy on a bus suggesting what might happen and what might not. Modern vehicles are going auto everything, even fly-by-wire throttle control, so the vehicle does what IT thinks you meant, rather than what you actually told it to do! .. This issue is a to-each-their-own sort of thing. You either prefer to drive stick or you don't.. and well, I do!
Originally Posted by n3elz
Many offroad trucks are going automatic (and I'm talking professionals here) because they break less with them.
Originally Posted by shadyluke
I got an automatic because I got a deal on the truck plus with a 4x4 I find the autos are a lot easier to use in the snow and itz easier in the city.
But the snow thing I can't disagree w/ more. I've argued it before and won't get into it again, but I think engine braking w/ a manual is far easier and more advantageous in low traction situations w/ a stick than w/ an auto, especially w/ 4x4. .. Although it can be more dangerous if you don't pay attention or know what you're doing and do something stuipid too!
#12
#13
Happens in any topic I get in. Don't know why.
Colin, I'm not talking about TRANSMISSION breakage: I'm talking u-joints, CV's, driveshafts, etc. The auto cushions the torque delivery and preserves the entire drivetrain. They use autos to save the whole drivetrain. You missed the point.
An auto also give you 2:1 speed reduction under load due to the torque converter. It's like having a "crawl box" in your drivetrain and allows slower rates. Essential for me with a 2WD without a low range, but useful for a 4WD with a low range to get slower crawl speeds up inclines.
Also, the torque converter is FAR superior to "slipping the clutch" to get a big load moving. Face it: manuals have their place but they are NOT superior to the automatic designs -- just different. The torque converter in the automatic conveys benefits and the automakers know and have measured this -- thats why towing capacity is higher with automatics.
Originally Posted by NHBubba
Yeah, but when they DO break something it'll cost a lot more to fix
An auto also give you 2:1 speed reduction under load due to the torque converter. It's like having a "crawl box" in your drivetrain and allows slower rates. Essential for me with a 2WD without a low range, but useful for a 4WD with a low range to get slower crawl speeds up inclines.
Also, the torque converter is FAR superior to "slipping the clutch" to get a big load moving. Face it: manuals have their place but they are NOT superior to the automatic designs -- just different. The torque converter in the automatic conveys benefits and the automakers know and have measured this -- thats why towing capacity is higher with automatics.
#14
Thanks John now I see how I was wrong in my thinking. Although I see no difference between an auto and manual with engine braking in the snow. Half the time in Erie I drive without the overdrive on and constantly downshift on grades and such. I had a manual last year up here and I feel I am better off with an auto. Just my opinion tho.
#15
Well, the auto is not superior either as such. Some have a "manual is better" and I think kind of macho mindset about this. I have an engineering mindset: each design has plus and minus details and it just depends on what you're doing.
Both can get the job done. Sometimes, for some jobs, one is better than another, particularly for a particular driver and vehicle. But neither rules.
Both can get the job done. Sometimes, for some jobs, one is better than another, particularly for a particular driver and vehicle. But neither rules.
#16
Originally Posted by Wowak
If you know how to drive a manual transmission right, its NOT close. Not nearly. Not to mention that with a manual you're getting about 7% more power to the rear wheels.
I totally agree. When I had the manual, I could smoke my tires whenever I wanted to, and that was with the 3.0l (4.10's don't hurt either), but now my 4.0l has to think for a heartbeat before it decides I really want acceleration and will downshift. Manuals will just be more fun to drive, unless you're stuck doing 0 to 5 mph on the highway during rushhour.
Can't blame my computer though, I'm bi-polar when I drive. I'm either in granny mode to safe gas, or will floor it because the little voices inside tell me too.
#17
#18
The 7% more power fact isnt supported by any dyno of a 4.0 ranger I have seen.
Manual = fun yes..
manual = more gas mileage No.
With the new autos you can shut off overdrive.
This puts you at 3000 rpm@60 I find thats enough for any hills around here.
Now if I was doing the twisties at 40mph and it was hunting .. well I suspose
I could use 2.. The torque converter will lock in all gears except 1.
I wish I had a manual everytime I drive the truck on a sunny day.
I'm glad of the automatic when I'm driving home from work at 2am and its 5 degrees out... or when I'm stuck in cleveland rush hour... or when I'm climbing a rockpile...towing a 4000lb u-haul trailer with bad wheel bearings... etc
If I could have Both in a truck that would just be perfect :)
Rand
Manual = fun yes..
manual = more gas mileage No.
With the new autos you can shut off overdrive.
This puts you at 3000 rpm@60 I find thats enough for any hills around here.
Now if I was doing the twisties at 40mph and it was hunting .. well I suspose
I could use 2.. The torque converter will lock in all gears except 1.
I wish I had a manual everytime I drive the truck on a sunny day.
I'm glad of the automatic when I'm driving home from work at 2am and its 5 degrees out... or when I'm stuck in cleveland rush hour... or when I'm climbing a rockpile...towing a 4000lb u-haul trailer with bad wheel bearings... etc
If I could have Both in a truck that would just be perfect :)
Rand
#19
#21
I used to use the electronic shift functions all the time in my dads Mercades ML 500 and his E 430. That was always fun. The thing I didn't like about em was there was no clutch so when you would shift it took a min before the tranny actually shifted. I remember the first time I tried it I took it almost to reline and tapped it and it went to redline before it shifted. Was scary at first now I just know to compensate for that. I never meant to take it that far but I did. Oh well, only happened once so we won't tell him.
#22
Originally Posted by SonicRanger001
Can someone explain the MANUAL transmission fetish to me?
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
Ford's ratings for manual vs auto tranny are VERY different...does this mean auto is stronger or what? I just don't see the value in a manual tranny in a truck of our size anymore?
In a sporty car like my old Focus SVT I do...or the new Mustang...but our trucks???
Please give me a dissertation!
The reason that Ford downrates the towing capacity of the manual is because of uphill launches from a dead stop. A manual throws power away to heat while slipping the clutch on initial launch but the torque converter in an automatic doubles the available torque when starting from rest. This is a tremendous advantage for the automatic. Ford has a very severe test that requires a fully loaded truck/trailer combo to be launched from rest on a very steep incline (20%, I believe.) All else being equal, an automatic can walk away on the same hill that will fry a clutch into oblivion. That's the ONLY reason the manual is rated for a lower GCVW.
Originally Posted by n3elz
Colin, I'm not talking about TRANSMISSION breakage: I'm talking u-joints, CV's, driveshafts, etc. The auto cushions the torque delivery and preserves the entire drivetrain. They use autos to save the whole drivetrain. You missed the point.
An auto also give you 2:1 speed reduction under load due to the torque converter. It's like having a "crawl box" in your drivetrain and allows slower rates. Essential for me with a 2WD without a low range, but useful for a 4WD with a low range to get slower crawl speeds up inclines.
Also, the torque converter is FAR superior to "slipping the clutch" to get a big load moving. Face it: manuals have their place but they are NOT superior to the automatic designs -- just different. The torque converter in the automatic conveys benefits and the automakers know and have measured this -- thats why towing capacity is higher with automatics.
An auto also give you 2:1 speed reduction under load due to the torque converter. It's like having a "crawl box" in your drivetrain and allows slower rates. Essential for me with a 2WD without a low range, but useful for a 4WD with a low range to get slower crawl speeds up inclines.
Also, the torque converter is FAR superior to "slipping the clutch" to get a big load moving. Face it: manuals have their place but they are NOT superior to the automatic designs -- just different. The torque converter in the automatic conveys benefits and the automakers know and have measured this -- thats why towing capacity is higher with automatics.
My personal preference is for manuals. They have their limitations but I enjoy driving them. Also, I do my own repairs and plan to keep my truck for several years. The 5RXXE section in my shop manual is 375 pages long. The M5OD section is 64 pages long. Every automatic transmission my family has owned has either failed outright or exhibited some type of questionable behavior.
Last edited by V8 Level II; 04-19-2005 at 09:31 PM.
#23
Ha ha! I enjoy driving them also, but with all the radios and electronics in my vehicle, and all, the automatic makes sense for me. I have nothing against manuals, I just bristle when I hear automatics "automatically" relegated to the clase of "inferior" without regard to application or all capabilities.
And you know what? Ford's automatics in particular have a bad record matched probably only by some Mitubishi designs. But that's not true for all automatics necessarily. So from a Ford perspective, one might have a good reason to get a manual.
And you know what? Ford's automatics in particular have a bad record matched probably only by some Mitubishi designs. But that's not true for all automatics necessarily. So from a Ford perspective, one might have a good reason to get a manual.
#24
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