Ranger Start Push button Question
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From: NL, Canada
Ranger Start Push button Question
hi guys, so just replaced my Starter motor on my 03 ranger 4.0 sohc ( Very sad with how little space there is to work on it). Well anyways in the process I broke the starter ignition wire as it was corroded on the old starter and snapped when i went to unbolt the old one. Well I repaired it ; and then, replaced the starter and unfortunately with all the severe snow and Ice we've had here, The ice built up on top of my differential / starter motor area and pushed on the wire and it broke again( ignition wire). So Now of course I can't start my truck again, its parked in snow and I can't move it to my garage.
I tried touching the ignition wire off the stud while someone cranked the truck but im assuming the connection is too weak to crank the truck because nothing happens. I tried jumping the solenoid only to realize that wouldn't work.. So I have a troublesome to repair this wire again.
Can I run a start button and leave it hooked up in the truck like push button start? that way if this happens again I won't have to deal with the little space available to access the starter.
Two designs i don't like with the truck so far are the starter motor location / access and also how hard it is to work on the front axle without removing it from the truck. My last vehicle was a jeep, it was more troublesome for parts however easy to work on.
I tried touching the ignition wire off the stud while someone cranked the truck but im assuming the connection is too weak to crank the truck because nothing happens. I tried jumping the solenoid only to realize that wouldn't work.. So I have a troublesome to repair this wire again.
Can I run a start button and leave it hooked up in the truck like push button start? that way if this happens again I won't have to deal with the little space available to access the starter.
Two designs i don't like with the truck so far are the starter motor location / access and also how hard it is to work on the front axle without removing it from the truck. My last vehicle was a jeep, it was more troublesome for parts however easy to work on.
Start motor should have 2 wires, well 1 wire and 1 cable to battery positive terminal
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
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From: NL, Canada
Start motor should have 2 wires, well 1 wire and 1 cable to battery positive terminal
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
Likes: 2
From: NL, Canada
Start motor should have 2 wires, well 1 wire and 1 cable to battery positive terminal
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
The wire runs to the starter relay in the engine fuse box, its usually a yellow/blue stripe wire
Is this the wire that broke?
Its not an ignition wire it just activates the solenoid on the top of starter motor to Crank the engine
Button wouldn't fix this, still need that wire to activate starter motor, and yes you could use a button for that on any vehicle
The START button on newer cars are used because there are NO KEYS , a digital wireless fob is used to activate the vehicles spark and fuel system when its in the vehicle, and since there is no key to turn to START a Button had to be used to start and STOP the engine
so I just tried a few things and no luck. I am not a happy camper because I need my vehicle and now its out of commission.
Tried recrimping the ignition wire, put it back on the stud for the switched power on the starter motor and nothing, no crank. So i decided to charge up the battery and tried again, nothing. No sign of cranking. I also tried to bypass everything and give +12v power to the stud on the starter to activate the solenoid and the engine will crank but not fire. I located both fuse panels and going to try the fuse next for the ignition/ switched power. The trucks in the snowbank too which makes this hard to work on, we've had some severe snow. Truck was running fine two days ago sadly.
2003 has PATS(passive anti-theft system) so turn on the key and make sure the "Theft" light comes on and then goes OFF, if it Flashes then you can not start the engine, fuel injectors are turned off no bypass for that
If "theft" light goes off then jumping the solenoid should work to start engine, clutch switch wouldn't matter
Just a heads up, there is a fuse in the cab fuse box, #24 7.5amp, if solenoid wire was ever shorted out when trying to start engine then this fuse would BLOW, so no starter activation using the key after that, until new fuse was used
Do this, make a longer wire with the correct size eye or tab slot to fit solenoid, attach it to solenoid and run it up to engine fuse box
Try to pull back the light green with a red stripe(for solenoid) so you can work on it without getting under the truck, it runs up to the engine bay Fuse box as well
Trying to re-splice the short wires under the truck is very hard to do, so don't bother, add longer wire
Then you can work on reconnecting the wires or add a button
If "theft" light goes off then jumping the solenoid should work to start engine, clutch switch wouldn't matter
Just a heads up, there is a fuse in the cab fuse box, #24 7.5amp, if solenoid wire was ever shorted out when trying to start engine then this fuse would BLOW, so no starter activation using the key after that, until new fuse was used
Do this, make a longer wire with the correct size eye or tab slot to fit solenoid, attach it to solenoid and run it up to engine fuse box
Try to pull back the light green with a red stripe(for solenoid) so you can work on it without getting under the truck, it runs up to the engine bay Fuse box as well
Trying to re-splice the short wires under the truck is very hard to do, so don't bother, add longer wire
Then you can work on reconnecting the wires or add a button
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
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From: NL, Canada
2003 has PATS(passive anti-theft system) so turn on the key and make sure the "Theft" light comes on and then goes OFF, if it Flashes then you can not start the engine, fuel injectors are turned off no bypass for that
If "theft" light goes off then jumping the solenoid should work to start engine, clutch switch wouldn't matter
Just a heads up, there is a fuse in the cab fuse box, #24 7.5amp, if solenoid wire was ever shorted out when trying to start engine then this fuse would BLOW, so no starter activation using the key after that, until new fuse was used
Do this, make a longer wire with the correct size eye or tab slot to fit solenoid, attach it to solenoid and run it up to engine fuse box
Try to pull back the light green with a red stripe(for solenoid) so you can work on it without getting under the truck, it runs up to the engine bay Fuse box as well
Trying to re-splice the short wires under the truck is very hard to do, so don't bother, add longer wire
Then you can work on reconnecting the wires or add a button
If "theft" light goes off then jumping the solenoid should work to start engine, clutch switch wouldn't matter
Just a heads up, there is a fuse in the cab fuse box, #24 7.5amp, if solenoid wire was ever shorted out when trying to start engine then this fuse would BLOW, so no starter activation using the key after that, until new fuse was used
Do this, make a longer wire with the correct size eye or tab slot to fit solenoid, attach it to solenoid and run it up to engine fuse box
Try to pull back the light green with a red stripe(for solenoid) so you can work on it without getting under the truck, it runs up to the engine bay Fuse box as well
Trying to re-splice the short wires under the truck is very hard to do, so don't bother, add longer wire
Then you can work on reconnecting the wires or add a button
Few checks. I was wrong the solenoid wire is yellow. Thats the one in which i got a couple crimps on to fix it... anyways i noted a couple things, no fuel pump when i turn the key. Can't hear it. I tested for power and no power to the solenoid wire using my voltmeter.
Regarding the theft light the truck is flashing theft.. I turn the key it flashes theft, I attempt to start --- no crank . It continues to flash theft. It does not go away like you mentioned. If i could get the truck over to my garage I could work on it easier. I will check fuse #24, i didn't check that one only 11 and 56 for continuity.
How can i get the theft to stop blinking? Would i need to get the truck flashed or something? My key fob stopped working a while back and i've just been manually locking the doors
Thats why its not starting, the flashing theft light, also disables starter motor activation wire
Turn on the key and let the theft light flash, after 1 minute it will start to flash a 2 digit code, like 1:4, or 1:6 always a 1 first, it will keep repeating the code, for a minute or so
Check Fuses 19 and 26 in cab fuse box, they power the PATS system and key reader
1:3 Key code not received. Is key screened by other keys or objects? Try different key: if okay then first key is faulty, check fuse 26
1:4 Partial code only received. Try again. If not okay use different key.
1:5 Key not programmed into PATS. key needs to be added to system
1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV
Just a heads up, if you try several times to start engine with flashing theft light, the computer will go into lock down, so you have to wait 60-90 minutes or so for it to clear
Its to prevent repeated attacks/theft attempts on the system
When you turn on the key and theft light goes OFF you have fixed the problem, with PATS in any case
Turn on the key and let the theft light flash, after 1 minute it will start to flash a 2 digit code, like 1:4, or 1:6 always a 1 first, it will keep repeating the code, for a minute or so
Check Fuses 19 and 26 in cab fuse box, they power the PATS system and key reader
1:3 Key code not received. Is key screened by other keys or objects? Try different key: if okay then first key is faulty, check fuse 26
1:4 Partial code only received. Try again. If not okay use different key.
1:5 Key not programmed into PATS. key needs to be added to system
1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV
Just a heads up, if you try several times to start engine with flashing theft light, the computer will go into lock down, so you have to wait 60-90 minutes or so for it to clear
Its to prevent repeated attacks/theft attempts on the system
When you turn on the key and theft light goes OFF you have fixed the problem, with PATS in any case
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 10:51 AM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
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From: NL, Canada
Thats why its not starting, the flashing theft light, also disables starter motor activation wire
Turn on the key and let the theft light flash, after 1 minute it will start to flash a 2 digit code, like 1:4, or 1:6 always a 1 first, it will keep repeating the code, for a minute or so
Check Fuses 19 and 26 in cab fuse box, they power the PATS system and key reader
1:3 Key code not received. Is key screened by other keys or objects? Try different key: if okay then first key is faulty, check fuse 26
1:4 Partial code only received. Try again. If not okay use different key.
1:5 Key not programmed into PATS. key needs to be added to system
1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV
Just a heads up, if you try several times to start engine with flashing theft light, the computer will go into lock down, so you have to wait 60-90 minutes or so for it to clear
Its to prevent repeated attacks/theft attempts on the system
Turn on the key and let the theft light flash, after 1 minute it will start to flash a 2 digit code, like 1:4, or 1:6 always a 1 first, it will keep repeating the code, for a minute or so
Check Fuses 19 and 26 in cab fuse box, they power the PATS system and key reader
1:3 Key code not received. Is key screened by other keys or objects? Try different key: if okay then first key is faulty, check fuse 26
1:4 Partial code only received. Try again. If not okay use different key.
1:5 Key not programmed into PATS. key needs to be added to system
1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV
Just a heads up, if you try several times to start engine with flashing theft light, the computer will go into lock down, so you have to wait 60-90 minutes or so for it to clear
Its to prevent repeated attacks/theft attempts on the system
I appreciate all the help highly. I checked the fuses as you mentioned 19 and 26. They both look good to me. I took a video cause im not sure about the code, it looks to me as 1:6 but its hard to tell because the flashes are not distinctly obvious. Key is in the ON postion. Starts changing pattern around 48 seconds i think.Please find the video attached.
I will try again in 90 minutes because im not sure what else to do.
Its not going into Code Mode so there is no 2 digit code coming up, may have to use a Code Reader, that can read Body Codes, Bxxx codes, not just engine codes, Pxxx
Yes could have been a double PATS key issue
But..................you replaced the starter because?
..........................did you notice if the Theft Light was flashing BEFORE you replaced the starter motor?
Maybe this has been a PATS issue all along, it does disable starter activation, so "acts like" a bad starter motor
Its not uncommon for a transceiver to fail, transceiver is just a powered Ring Antenna located around key slot in steering column, it has 4 wires, 12v/ground and 2 antenna wires that connect to computer(PATS software)
Its powered by Fuse 19, 25amp, in cab fuse box
Transceivers are not coded to the PATS system, so they can be replaced by another transceiver as long as it fits and uses same 4 wire connector
In 2003 Rangers there is just the transceiver and the computer involved in PATS, and the wires for them of course
PATS specific Bxxx codes here:
B1232/B2103 Transceiver internal antenna damaged. Replace transceiver.
B1342 ECU is defective (EEPROM in PCM is not working — replace PCM). PATS related when stored in PCM only.
B1600 Non-PATS Key or damaged key.
B1601 Unprogrammed encoded ignition key detected (leave ignition on for 20 seconds before trying a programmed key, in Anti-Scan Mode).
B1602 Partial detection of encoded ignition key.
B1681 Transceiver signal not detected.
B2141 Non-Volatile Memory (NVM) configuration failure — No PCM ID stored in PATS.
B2139/U2510 PCM ID does not match between the PCM and PATS control
(PATS/ICM/VIC/HEC/SCIL).
B2431 Key program failure (defective key or transceiver).
Yes could have been a double PATS key issue
But..................you replaced the starter because?
..........................did you notice if the Theft Light was flashing BEFORE you replaced the starter motor?
Maybe this has been a PATS issue all along, it does disable starter activation, so "acts like" a bad starter motor
Its not uncommon for a transceiver to fail, transceiver is just a powered Ring Antenna located around key slot in steering column, it has 4 wires, 12v/ground and 2 antenna wires that connect to computer(PATS software)
Its powered by Fuse 19, 25amp, in cab fuse box
Transceivers are not coded to the PATS system, so they can be replaced by another transceiver as long as it fits and uses same 4 wire connector
In 2003 Rangers there is just the transceiver and the computer involved in PATS, and the wires for them of course
PATS specific Bxxx codes here:
B1232/B2103 Transceiver internal antenna damaged. Replace transceiver.
B1342 ECU is defective (EEPROM in PCM is not working — replace PCM). PATS related when stored in PCM only.
B1600 Non-PATS Key or damaged key.
B1601 Unprogrammed encoded ignition key detected (leave ignition on for 20 seconds before trying a programmed key, in Anti-Scan Mode).
B1602 Partial detection of encoded ignition key.
B1681 Transceiver signal not detected.
B2141 Non-Volatile Memory (NVM) configuration failure — No PCM ID stored in PATS.
B2139/U2510 PCM ID does not match between the PCM and PATS control
(PATS/ICM/VIC/HEC/SCIL).
B2431 Key program failure (defective key or transceiver).
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 11:11 AM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
Likes: 2
From: NL, Canada
Its not going into Code Mode so there is no 2 digit code coming up, may have to use a Code Reader, that can read Body Codes, Bxxx codes, not just engine codes, Pxxx
Yes could have been a double PATS key issue
But..................you replaced the starter because?
..........................did you notice if the Theft Light was flashing BEFORE you replaced the starter motor?
Maybe this has been a PATS issue all along, it does disable starter activation, so "acts like" a bad starter motor
Its not uncommon for a transceiver to fail, transceiver is just a powered Ring Antenna located around key slot in steering column, it has 4 wires, 12v/ground and 2 antenna wires that connect to computer(PATS software)
Its powered by Fuse 19, 25amp, in cab fuse box
Transceivers are not coded to the PATS system, so they can be replaced by another transceiver as long as it fits and uses same 4 wire connector
PATS specific Bxxx codes here:
B1232/B2103 Transceiver internal antenna damaged. Replace transceiver.
B1342 ECU is defective (EEPROM in PCM is not working — replace PCM). PATS related when stored in PCM only.
B1600 Non-PATS Key or damaged key.
B1601 Unprogrammed encoded ignition key detected (leave ignition on for 20 seconds before trying a programmed key, in Anti-Scan Mode).
B1602 Partial detection of encoded ignition key.
B1681 Transceiver signal not detected.
B2141 Non-Volatile Memory (NVM) configuration failure — No PCM ID stored in PATS.
B2139/U2510 PCM ID does not match between the PCM and PATS control
(PATS/ICM/VIC/HEC/SCIL).
B2431 Key program failure (defective key or transceiver).
Yes could have been a double PATS key issue
But..................you replaced the starter because?
..........................did you notice if the Theft Light was flashing BEFORE you replaced the starter motor?
Maybe this has been a PATS issue all along, it does disable starter activation, so "acts like" a bad starter motor
Its not uncommon for a transceiver to fail, transceiver is just a powered Ring Antenna located around key slot in steering column, it has 4 wires, 12v/ground and 2 antenna wires that connect to computer(PATS software)
Its powered by Fuse 19, 25amp, in cab fuse box
Transceivers are not coded to the PATS system, so they can be replaced by another transceiver as long as it fits and uses same 4 wire connector
PATS specific Bxxx codes here:
B1232/B2103 Transceiver internal antenna damaged. Replace transceiver.
B1342 ECU is defective (EEPROM in PCM is not working — replace PCM). PATS related when stored in PCM only.
B1600 Non-PATS Key or damaged key.
B1601 Unprogrammed encoded ignition key detected (leave ignition on for 20 seconds before trying a programmed key, in Anti-Scan Mode).
B1602 Partial detection of encoded ignition key.
B1681 Transceiver signal not detected.
B2141 Non-Volatile Memory (NVM) configuration failure — No PCM ID stored in PATS.
B2139/U2510 PCM ID does not match between the PCM and PATS control
(PATS/ICM/VIC/HEC/SCIL).
B2431 Key program failure (defective key or transceiver).
I've never noticed the Theft light being on previously until now. I replaced the starter because after having issues with it not engaging sometimes. When i took the old starter off, i found that the top bolt was loose and the ground was loose but I replaced it anyways with a new starter since i had it bought. It was working like a charm for the past two or three weeks. Few days ago we had a horrible blizzard, full truck was covered in snow under the bonnet, brushed off everything i could, cleaned the belt and fan and started up the truck and let some ice and snow melt. Goes out to start it yesterday and its dead. No attempt to start, no crank. I tried a few times. So I hopped underneath, and seen that the Ice and snow built up badly on top of the front axle and starter area. It also knocked the crimp lug off the stud for the solenoid. So I fixed it today with a new wire from the Yellow switched power wire and replaced the one that broke, however still no crank. I wouldn't have even thought about the Pats system until you mentioned it and seen that it is indeed flashing theft. Just didn't make sense for the truck to think its getting robbed with the key in the ignition...
Is there a way i can reset this, I have both factory keys.
I really like my ranger and was expecting a few more years out of it after putting in a 2011 engine. Hoping not to Have to buy a newer truck because i can't afford that currently.
EDIT
Actually it looks like your PATS and computer may not be starting up at all
The slow flashing theft light means standby mode, key off
Google: Ford PATS theft light flashing rapidly
Look at the videos of the fast flashing, yours is flashing slow, like key is off
In engine bay fuse box is the PCM relay and PCM fuse, #7, 30amp, check it, also fuse 21, 10amp
Relay 54 is the PCM relay, pull it out and make sure contacts look OK
If possible have someone turn on the key while you have your finger on that relay, it should "Click" closed with key ON
Also double check fuse 19 in cab fuse box, make sure its GOOD, use a meter set to OHMs, 0 ohms for a good fuse, "looks" can be deceiving
You can get 2003 Ranger owners manual here: https://www.ranger-forums.com/genera...1-models-3747/
Page 159 has the Ranger 4.0l fuse box lay out
Actually it looks like your PATS and computer may not be starting up at all
The slow flashing theft light means standby mode, key off
Google: Ford PATS theft light flashing rapidly
Look at the videos of the fast flashing, yours is flashing slow, like key is off
In engine bay fuse box is the PCM relay and PCM fuse, #7, 30amp, check it, also fuse 21, 10amp
Relay 54 is the PCM relay, pull it out and make sure contacts look OK
If possible have someone turn on the key while you have your finger on that relay, it should "Click" closed with key ON
Also double check fuse 19 in cab fuse box, make sure its GOOD, use a meter set to OHMs, 0 ohms for a good fuse, "looks" can be deceiving
You can get 2003 Ranger owners manual here: https://www.ranger-forums.com/genera...1-models-3747/
Page 159 has the Ranger 4.0l fuse box lay out
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 12:17 PM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
Likes: 2
From: NL, Canada
EDIT
Actually it looks like your PATS and computer may not be starting up at all
The slow flashing theft light means standby mode, key off
In engine bay fuse box is the PCM relay and PCM fuse, #7, 30amp, check it, also fuse 21, 10amp
Relay 54 is the PCM relay, pull it out and make sure contacts look OK
If possible have someone turn on the key while you have your finger on that relay, it should "Click" closed with key ON
Also double check fuse 19 in cab fuse box, make sure its GOOD, use a meter set to OHMs, 0 ohms for a good fuse
You can get 2003 Ranger owners manual here: https://www.ranger-forums.com/genera...1-models-3747/
Page 159 has the Ranger 4.0l fuse box lay out
Actually it looks like your PATS and computer may not be starting up at all
The slow flashing theft light means standby mode, key off
In engine bay fuse box is the PCM relay and PCM fuse, #7, 30amp, check it, also fuse 21, 10amp
Relay 54 is the PCM relay, pull it out and make sure contacts look OK
If possible have someone turn on the key while you have your finger on that relay, it should "Click" closed with key ON
Also double check fuse 19 in cab fuse box, make sure its GOOD, use a meter set to OHMs, 0 ohms for a good fuse
You can get 2003 Ranger owners manual here: https://www.ranger-forums.com/genera...1-models-3747/
Page 159 has the Ranger 4.0l fuse box lay out
Does the computer share a common ground anywhere? My driverside power window died on me two or three weeks ago.
No the Computer is grounded in engine bay, it has several ground points
It doesn't look like the flashing is changing from key off to key on?
It should, either stop flashing or flash faster, much faster if its a PATS issue
So computer is not seeing key on, not powering up
You have a volt meter so check if Fuse 41 in engine bay fuse box has 12volt with key on, that fuse is powered by PCM relay closing when key is turned on, if it does then PCM(computer) should be powering up
If no volts or low volts at fuse 41 then PCM relay or PCM fuse is bad, or relay is not getting power from fuse 19 in the cab, key on power runs thru that fuse so you can test if that fuse has 12v with key on
12.09 volts is a dead battery
After a bettery sits for a few hours, overnight is better, it will read like this:
New battery is 12.8volts
3 year old battery is 12.5v
5/6 year old battery 12.3v and time to shop for battery sale
12.2v or less is a failed battery, or very very run down
You can't test batteries true voltage just after charging, it must sit for a few hours to get an acurate test of age and ability to hold a charge
It doesn't look like the flashing is changing from key off to key on?
It should, either stop flashing or flash faster, much faster if its a PATS issue
So computer is not seeing key on, not powering up
You have a volt meter so check if Fuse 41 in engine bay fuse box has 12volt with key on, that fuse is powered by PCM relay closing when key is turned on, if it does then PCM(computer) should be powering up
If no volts or low volts at fuse 41 then PCM relay or PCM fuse is bad, or relay is not getting power from fuse 19 in the cab, key on power runs thru that fuse so you can test if that fuse has 12v with key on
12.09 volts is a dead battery
After a bettery sits for a few hours, overnight is better, it will read like this:
New battery is 12.8volts
3 year old battery is 12.5v
5/6 year old battery 12.3v and time to shop for battery sale
12.2v or less is a failed battery, or very very run down
You can't test batteries true voltage just after charging, it must sit for a few hours to get an acurate test of age and ability to hold a charge
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 01:13 PM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
Likes: 2
From: NL, Canada
No the Computer is grounded in engine bay, it has several ground points
It doesn't look like the flashing is changing from key off to key on?
It should, either stop flashing or flash faster, much faster if its a PATS issue
So computer is not seeing key on, not powering up
You have a volt meter so check if Fuse 41 in engine bay fuse box has 12volt with key on, that fuse is powered by PCM relay closing when key is turned on, if it does then PCM(computer) should be powering up
If no volts or low volts at fuse 41 then PCM relay or PCM fuse is bad, or relay is not getting power from fuse 19 in the cab, key on power runs thru that fuse so you can test if that fuse has 12v with key on
12.09 volts is a dead battery
After a bettery sits for a few hours, overnight is better, it will read like this:
New battery is 12.8volts
3 year old battery is 12.5v
5/6 year old battery 12.3v and time to shop for battery sale
12.2v or less is a failed battery, or very very run down
You can't test batteries true voltage just after charging, it must sit for a few hours to get an acurate test of age and ability to hold a charge
It doesn't look like the flashing is changing from key off to key on?
It should, either stop flashing or flash faster, much faster if its a PATS issue
So computer is not seeing key on, not powering up
You have a volt meter so check if Fuse 41 in engine bay fuse box has 12volt with key on, that fuse is powered by PCM relay closing when key is turned on, if it does then PCM(computer) should be powering up
If no volts or low volts at fuse 41 then PCM relay or PCM fuse is bad, or relay is not getting power from fuse 19 in the cab, key on power runs thru that fuse so you can test if that fuse has 12v with key on
12.09 volts is a dead battery
After a bettery sits for a few hours, overnight is better, it will read like this:
New battery is 12.8volts
3 year old battery is 12.5v
5/6 year old battery 12.3v and time to shop for battery sale
12.2v or less is a failed battery, or very very run down
You can't test batteries true voltage just after charging, it must sit for a few hours to get an acurate test of age and ability to hold a charge
I will poke around and see where i find 12 volts, hopefully the battery is charged up enough. If the battery is just flat thats simple to fix. Just strange because the truck was fine the past couple days until yesterday
Yes, fuse 41 is for O2 heaters and they are powered on with key on using same fuse and relay as computer power, just the easiest place I could find to test power up for that system
Ignition key powers up fuse 19 in the cab
Fuse 19 powers up PCM Relay, it closes and powers up fuse 41(engine bay) and also powers up computer
Other lights on the dash come on with key on, so ignition switch does have power, its powered by just 1 wire
It could be ignition switch OUT wire is the problem, that would show up if Fuse 19 didn't power up with key on
Ignition key powers up fuse 19 in the cab
Fuse 19 powers up PCM Relay, it closes and powers up fuse 41(engine bay) and also powers up computer
Other lights on the dash come on with key on, so ignition switch does have power, its powered by just 1 wire
It could be ignition switch OUT wire is the problem, that would show up if Fuse 19 didn't power up with key on
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 02:37 PM.
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Yes, fuse 41 is for O2 heaters and they are powered on with key on using same fuse and relay as computer power, just the easiest place I could find to test power up for that system
Ignition key powers up fuse 19 in the cab
Fuse 19 powers up PCM Relay, it closes and powers up fuse 41(engine bay) and also powers up computer
Other lights on the dash come on with key on, so ignition switch does have power, its powered by just 1 wire
It could be ignition switch OUT wire is the problem, that would show up if Fuse 19 didn't power up with key on
Ignition key powers up fuse 19 in the cab
Fuse 19 powers up PCM Relay, it closes and powers up fuse 41(engine bay) and also powers up computer
Other lights on the dash come on with key on, so ignition switch does have power, its powered by just 1 wire
It could be ignition switch OUT wire is the problem, that would show up if Fuse 19 didn't power up with key on
no power at fuse 41, no computer power.
Also upon inspection i found a weird looking black fuse thats positioned close to the big relays in the main fuse box. This black relay seems to have no continuity between the pins. Not sure what its for it has only 2 pins on it and but pins are facing opposite directions.;
https://imgshare.io/image/s-l1600.kH74w
Last edited by NLBurden; Jan 23, 2020 at 03:26 PM.
How about fuse 19 in cab?
These are both Key on power fuses
EDIT, that reads like the DIODE for for the relay
Fuse 19 power-----------------Diode----------------PCM Relay
So if fuse 19 has 12v then test one of the Diode terminals it should also have 12v
Diodes have a polarity which is why terminals are not the same, so you can't accidentally switch directions
Diodes rarely fail, which is not Never, just rarely
Gotta run out for an hour or two
These are both Key on power fuses
EDIT, that reads like the DIODE for for the relay
Fuse 19 power-----------------Diode----------------PCM Relay
So if fuse 19 has 12v then test one of the Diode terminals it should also have 12v
Diodes have a polarity which is why terminals are not the same, so you can't accidentally switch directions
Diodes rarely fail, which is not Never, just rarely
Gotta run out for an hour or two
Last edited by RonD; Jan 23, 2020 at 03:30 PM.
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
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From: NL, Canada
How about fuse 19 in cab?
These are both Key on power fuses
EDIT, that reads like the DIODE for for the relat
Fuse 19 power-----------------Diode----------------PCM Relay
So if fuse 19 has 12v then test one of the Diode terminals it should also have 12v
Diodes have a polarity which is why teninals are not the same, so you can't accidentally switch directions
These are both Key on power fuses
EDIT, that reads like the DIODE for for the relat
Fuse 19 power-----------------Diode----------------PCM Relay
So if fuse 19 has 12v then test one of the Diode terminals it should also have 12v
Diodes have a polarity which is why teninals are not the same, so you can't accidentally switch directions
Thread Starter
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Member
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 209
Likes: 2
From: NL, Canada
My voltmeter died on my last night too, need to get another battery for it. so just using my test light for now.
i got voltage on one side of fuse 19 in the cab with the key in the on position.
Also I removed the diode. I got power on one side of the diode too.
I had the battery on charge the whole night too so hopefully it’s not a issue today testing.
so as your above post does that mean it’s the pcm relay?
i got voltage on one side of fuse 19 in the cab with the key in the on position.
Also I removed the diode. I got power on one side of the diode too.
I had the battery on charge the whole night too so hopefully it’s not a issue today testing.
so as your above post does that mean it’s the pcm relay?
Last edited by NLBurden; Jan 24, 2020 at 08:17 AM.
Yes, assuming the PCM fuse is good, that's fuse 7, 30amp in the engine fuse box, it should have 12volt all the time direct from battery
When PCM relay gets 12v from fuse 19(key on), it goes thru diode, this 12v closes PCM relay, which then sends 12v from fuse 7 to PCM, and fuse 41
EDIT
Didn't think of it before but you can turn on the key
Then pull out the PCM relay, it should "click open" then plug it back in and it should "click closed" if its working
When PCM relay gets 12v from fuse 19(key on), it goes thru diode, this 12v closes PCM relay, which then sends 12v from fuse 7 to PCM, and fuse 41
EDIT
Didn't think of it before but you can turn on the key
Then pull out the PCM relay, it should "click open" then plug it back in and it should "click closed" if its working
Last edited by RonD; Jan 24, 2020 at 10:09 AM.
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Joined: May 2016
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From: NL, Canada
Yes, assuming the PCM fuse is good, that's fuse 7, 30amp in the engine fuse box, it should have 12volt all the time direct from battery
When PCM relay gets 12v from fuse 19(key on), it goes thru diode, this 12v closes PCM relay, which then sends 12v from fuse 7 to PCM, and fuse 41
When PCM relay gets 12v from fuse 19(key on), it goes thru diode, this 12v closes PCM relay, which then sends 12v from fuse 7 to PCM, and fuse 41
