runs rough
#27
Went to the dealer _ lots of stock _ of single Platinum plugs...
The number for those is SP432.
The double Platinum are SP478.
More Information for MOTORCRAFT SP478
These will be available from Rock Auto in 3 days _ apparently.
I'll go back tomorrow and ask about the SP478...
The SP432 was 12 bucks incidentally from the dealer.
The number for those is SP432.
The double Platinum are SP478.
More Information for MOTORCRAFT SP478
These will be available from Rock Auto in 3 days _ apparently.
I'll go back tomorrow and ask about the SP478...
The SP432 was 12 bucks incidentally from the dealer.
#29
It appears they are both single platinum _ according to Rock Auto.
There are obviously other differences, but I would have to dig some more to find out.
2002 FORD RANGER 3.0L V6 Spark Plug | RockAuto
There are obviously other differences, but I would have to dig some more to find out.
2002 FORD RANGER 3.0L V6 Spark Plug | RockAuto
#31
#32
When I go back to the dealer, I'll ask.
But all the reading I've been doing, the gap is the most important.
I've come across other forums when the guy puts new plugs on and it misfires and has power drops.
Resetting the gap (bigger) clears that up.
I always check my gap any way on new plugs.
New plugs as a rule of thumb, should start life off at the smaller end of the scale.
The gap will grow as the plug ages.
#33
#34
OK so that states .44 gap for mine, and the SP-432 (single plat) so we can ignore that model plug it seems.
Autozone just confirmed that it needs to be double plat or better, so double plat or iridium basically.
I really like NGK's, just as a general rule, but i'm fine with Motorcraft, i hate Bosch... Don't ask.
Anyway, I think i'd have to go to Iridium if i wanted NGK, and at $8 a plug, it's prob not worth it.
Oh, and totally with you on the gap, no one bothers with that for some reason.
Autozone just confirmed that it needs to be double plat or better, so double plat or iridium basically.
I really like NGK's, just as a general rule, but i'm fine with Motorcraft, i hate Bosch... Don't ask.
Anyway, I think i'd have to go to Iridium if i wanted NGK, and at $8 a plug, it's prob not worth it.
Oh, and totally with you on the gap, no one bothers with that for some reason.
#35
#36
At the Ford dealer again this morning _ lots of stock of the double Platinum SP478 _ in Canada and the US.
I asked him about heat range and he didn't know, but between the numbers of 478 and 432, I'm guessing that the "4" is the heat range, so both the same.
In the old days (probably still the same today) the tips of the plug simply extended more into the combustion chamber _ became hotter.
The colder plugs had shorter tips recessed back into the plug.
I'm betting that if you compared the two, the tip lengths would be the same.
One thing that I still can't quite get my head around is Ron's explanation of the plugs wired in a series.
On one plug the spark jumps from the centre electrode to the ground post, while the waste spark plug jumps from the ground post to the centre electrode.
Ground is ground, why would wiring the plugs in a series change where the current flows ?
Current flows from positive to negative _ from the centre electrode to the ground electrode.
The only time when I've seen the spark jump from the ground electrode to the centre is on a British car with positive ground _ a very stupid way of wiring things.
It's more efficient to have the current flow from a hot surface to a cold surface, not the other way around.
But that still doesn't explain why one bank of plugs would fire from the ground electrode to the centre in a waste spark system _ the polarity hasn't changed ?
Why would any way of wiring them (series or parallel) change which way the spark jumps.
It's not as if the ground on the plug is isolated _ it can't be, the ground electrode is connected to the negative side of the battery _ at all times.
I asked him about heat range and he didn't know, but between the numbers of 478 and 432, I'm guessing that the "4" is the heat range, so both the same.
In the old days (probably still the same today) the tips of the plug simply extended more into the combustion chamber _ became hotter.
The colder plugs had shorter tips recessed back into the plug.
I'm betting that if you compared the two, the tip lengths would be the same.
One thing that I still can't quite get my head around is Ron's explanation of the plugs wired in a series.
On one plug the spark jumps from the centre electrode to the ground post, while the waste spark plug jumps from the ground post to the centre electrode.
Ground is ground, why would wiring the plugs in a series change where the current flows ?
Current flows from positive to negative _ from the centre electrode to the ground electrode.
The only time when I've seen the spark jump from the ground electrode to the centre is on a British car with positive ground _ a very stupid way of wiring things.
It's more efficient to have the current flow from a hot surface to a cold surface, not the other way around.
But that still doesn't explain why one bank of plugs would fire from the ground electrode to the centre in a waste spark system _ the polarity hasn't changed ?
Why would any way of wiring them (series or parallel) change which way the spark jumps.
It's not as if the ground on the plug is isolated _ it can't be, the ground electrode is connected to the negative side of the battery _ at all times.
#37
Yeah, i followed that explanation as far as the reason for the reversal, i don't understand that part either.
So 432 is out, single plat, so is the Autolite plug i have (posted above) for the same reason.
SP-500 is for the Flexfuel version as you found out, leaving (so far) SP-478 for double plats.
So 432 is out, single plat, so is the Autolite plug i have (posted above) for the same reason.
SP-500 is for the Flexfuel version as you found out, leaving (so far) SP-478 for double plats.
#38
Picture(s) is/are worth a thousand words.
With the plugs at either end of the secondary windings, that's what Ron meant when he says "wired in a series.
With it that way the currant has to flow from positive to negative and you get the spark jumping in the other direction on the one plug.
Personally I think it would make more sense wiring it in parallel, but it would probably cost more.
You would have two plugs sharing the same of all the windings on the secondary circuit.
This would increase the load, so you would need more windings (I think that's right), but then you would at least have the spark jumping from the centre electrode to the ground electrode as it should be _ no need for double platinum plugs.
With the plugs at either end of the secondary windings, that's what Ron meant when he says "wired in a series.
With it that way the currant has to flow from positive to negative and you get the spark jumping in the other direction on the one plug.
Personally I think it would make more sense wiring it in parallel, but it would probably cost more.
You would have two plugs sharing the same of all the windings on the secondary circuit.
This would increase the load, so you would need more windings (I think that's right), but then you would at least have the spark jumping from the centre electrode to the ground electrode as it should be _ no need for double platinum plugs.
#39
#40
Yeah, i followed that explanation as far as the reason for the reversal, i don't understand that part either.
So 432 is out, single plat, so is the Autolite plug i have (posted above) for the same reason.
SP-500 is for the Flexfuel version as you found out, leaving (so far) SP-478 for double plats.
So 432 is out, single plat, so is the Autolite plug i have (posted above) for the same reason.
SP-500 is for the Flexfuel version as you found out, leaving (so far) SP-478 for double plats.
I used this cross reference cgart from NGK and it show its equivalent to the Ford sp478 is one inch.
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9965
Look under specs in the link.
And here is that same Ford plug at Advanced Auto Parts, it also list it as one inch.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...478/18090042-P
When I need new plugs I will go with NGK, I'm done with Ford Motor Craft and their mystery numbers and their lack if info about it on the web.
NKG specs comes right out and tells you everything.
You can enter you truck make, year and model and it gives the correct ones.
Their cross reference chart seems to work well too.
That's how I found that the Motor Craft ones were too long.
#41
That's some good info you found there, and i agree, the mystery numbers and stupid specs, replacements and no supersedence is really annoying, not to mention pointless.
I'm wary of the site you linked though, not because it's bad info, it's good, but it's not NGK, it's a part of sparkplugs.com - doesn't mean we can't use it to our advantage.
Incidentally, NGK's actual site does not list *any* plug for the Vulcan motor, just wires.
Best part? You'll love this; when i enter my vehicle, that NGK you listed isn't on the list at all.
The laser platinum that shows up (most expensive of the lot) is this one:
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9969
Also, am i right in saying (based on the chart we've seen on rockauto) that Iridium will also stand up to the backward firing?
I'm wary of the site you linked though, not because it's bad info, it's good, but it's not NGK, it's a part of sparkplugs.com - doesn't mean we can't use it to our advantage.
Incidentally, NGK's actual site does not list *any* plug for the Vulcan motor, just wires.
Best part? You'll love this; when i enter my vehicle, that NGK you listed isn't on the list at all.
The laser platinum that shows up (most expensive of the lot) is this one:
https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=9969
Also, am i right in saying (based on the chart we've seen on rockauto) that Iridium will also stand up to the backward firing?
#44
Interestingly, putting the original plug code from the owners handbook in their cross reference, gives this plug: https://www.ngk.com/product.aspx?zpid=10167
It's not double plat, in fact it's not even single plat, but even Amazon's sometimes dumb compatibility thingy says it fits.
Seems if we care about platinum, specifically double, then we need the fancy pants versions.
Honestly though, the only reason (i think) we need that, is if we're trying to make original service intervals, which is 100k.
If the lesser material plugs are cheaper, and last 20-40k, then maybe we don't care and just run those?
It's not double plat, in fact it's not even single plat, but even Amazon's sometimes dumb compatibility thingy says it fits.
Seems if we care about platinum, specifically double, then we need the fancy pants versions.
Honestly though, the only reason (i think) we need that, is if we're trying to make original service intervals, which is 100k.
If the lesser material plugs are cheaper, and last 20-40k, then maybe we don't care and just run those?
#45
That's all it's for, so you don't have to change plugs as often and it's not really an issue on the 3 litre because the plugs aren't too bad too get at.
Many new vehicles (maybe the 4 litre Rangers) you either have to remove the front tire(s), and inner fender well, or raise the engine off its mounts.
When my dad was teaching mechanics, a mid 70's Buick came in and the engine had to be raised off its mounts to access the plugs.
Back then you couldn't remove the inner fender well and there were no fancy Platinum plugs.
That's another thing I don't get about the Iridium plugs, only the tip is Iridium, what good are they if the ground electrode is only nickel ?
Many new vehicles (maybe the 4 litre Rangers) you either have to remove the front tire(s), and inner fender well, or raise the engine off its mounts.
When my dad was teaching mechanics, a mid 70's Buick came in and the engine had to be raised off its mounts to access the plugs.
Back then you couldn't remove the inner fender well and there were no fancy Platinum plugs.
That's another thing I don't get about the Iridium plugs, only the tip is Iridium, what good are they if the ground electrode is only nickel ?
#46
Sheesh, i always thought the older stuff was easier, but then i'm used to smaller older stuff, not American older stuff.
Anyway, so if we can get a regular change interval out of "regular plugs" even with the reverse sparking, what's a 'good' NGK plug that's not just their cheapest version?
I notice finewire tech is used on some of the NGK's too?
Anyway, so if we can get a regular change interval out of "regular plugs" even with the reverse sparking, what's a 'good' NGK plug that's not just their cheapest version?
I notice finewire tech is used on some of the NGK's too?
#47
As long as the heat range is correct _ most important _ the then correct gap _ second.
Other then those two things, all the rest are just developers design, I don't think one is any better or worse then other _ just my opinion, but I'm tired worrying about plugs for now.
When I change mine (It'll be while), I'll let you know and how it goes.
Other then those two things, all the rest are just developers design, I don't think one is any better or worse then other _ just my opinion, but I'm tired worrying about plugs for now.
When I change mine (It'll be while), I'll let you know and how it goes.
#48
#49
#50
Wow, did this thread get derailed, sorry Red !
Can't help you with a machine shop or mechanic, but....
Consider some reconditioned heads.
If the head gaskets are shot, then it's been over heated, head gaskets just don't fail, something has to cause them to fail and over heating is the most common cause.
If you want to re-use your old heads, have them pressure tested and magnefluxed first.
Valves and guides are inexpensive, so just replace them, grinding valves is a waste of time.
Seats should be cut, not ground, grinding seats is old school, carbide bits from the stone get embedded in the seat and cause hot spots leading to premature failure.
Don't ever "lap" valves in either when it's cold, the fit changes when the engine is brought up to temperature.
Add a bit of engine oil to each bore and do the compression test again, if the numbers are unchanged, then the valves are shot, if the compression improves then it needs rings.
From the low compression numbers, I would say the valves have been totally melted.
Even with bad rings, the compression rings should not cause the numbers to be that low.
I suppose if it was severely over heated, the rings would lose their tension.
Sometimes the rings can grow in length to the point where the ends touch, this causes ring landing damage to the piston and in most cases, the rings break.
The only cure for this is a full engine rebuild or replacement.
Vulcan engine is very though durable though and easy to work on.
Can't help you with a machine shop or mechanic, but....
Consider some reconditioned heads.
If the head gaskets are shot, then it's been over heated, head gaskets just don't fail, something has to cause them to fail and over heating is the most common cause.
If you want to re-use your old heads, have them pressure tested and magnefluxed first.
Valves and guides are inexpensive, so just replace them, grinding valves is a waste of time.
Seats should be cut, not ground, grinding seats is old school, carbide bits from the stone get embedded in the seat and cause hot spots leading to premature failure.
Don't ever "lap" valves in either when it's cold, the fit changes when the engine is brought up to temperature.
Add a bit of engine oil to each bore and do the compression test again, if the numbers are unchanged, then the valves are shot, if the compression improves then it needs rings.
From the low compression numbers, I would say the valves have been totally melted.
Even with bad rings, the compression rings should not cause the numbers to be that low.
I suppose if it was severely over heated, the rings would lose their tension.
Sometimes the rings can grow in length to the point where the ends touch, this causes ring landing damage to the piston and in most cases, the rings break.
The only cure for this is a full engine rebuild or replacement.
Vulcan engine is very though durable though and easy to work on.
Last edited by Jeff R 1; 08-05-2017 at 10:31 AM.