96 2.3 no spark
96 2.3 no spark
Stopped on me as I was idling at a burger joint drive thru. Ran fine before.
I have read so many threads on the subject but most end up finding something I have failed to.
1. compression is good at 160 +/- 15%. Engine was a rebuild 25k miles ago.
2. Crank and cam sensors have new shielded wires, pigtails, and sensors. I thought maybe compromised somewhere. The crank is sending 200+ rpm when starting. My scan tool is fairly intelligent. It plugs in and uses my cell to monitor and run diagnostics. Done a couple of years ago and truck has been running fine. I verified not pinched or any damages.
3. Timing belt is good and was set. I always use my compression tester to know I'm on the compression stroke. The marks aren't perfect but within 1-2 mm. Yes I know the triangles from diamonds on the wheels. Mine won't align perfectly. Like a mm or 2 off. I can get them just before or just after the marks as that comes from moving the belt 1 tooth either way.
As far as I know, these trucks will at least run even if the timing marks aren't perfect. I've seen some run that were 2 teeth off.
4. Wires and plugs were replaced not long ago after hearing a tick with the wire grounding out. Still ran fine.
5. coil packs are new out the box. common for misfires in my 12 years of experience having the truck The coils have the center power verified. The other 2 show 12 v also when plugged into the coil. It seems like the grounding signal from the PCM isn't being supplied. If you unplug the coil, the wires then don't show voltage. Its just feeding through the coil without a ground. I try starting to see if the ground will become present at the signal wires from the PCM with coil unplugged. Never see voltage or ground while cranking unplugged from coil. Its like the PCM isn't there.
I discovered the center wires to both coils get really hot and had melted the tabs to hold it in place. So the wire would barely touch supplying power. That is the start of my journey to replace plugs all over the truck to ensure good contact.
7. Fuel pressure is good at 38. No fuel supply issues.
8. I tried the so called 50/50. Used starting fluid. No joy. Thought I might get lucky.
9. Once, i was testing coil with a test light. got a really big backfire. Again, confirms fuel. Just no spark. don't know how I did it.
10. The PCM is a new one. Local shop is nearby. They have verified the PCM is communicating. They reflashed it for me just to be sure.
11. All injectors, TPC, IAC, VSS are new and also have new pigtails. Again, done a couple of years ago.
12. Verified 5 volts at TPC.
13. No signs the head gasket is blown.
14. No Knock sensors on this year model
15. Oxygen sensors are both fairly new. But I have known the truck to run at least without them.
16. My harness is free of the sheathing right now as I verified there are no melted or shorted wires. The one for the Cam was shorted years ago. So Its something I check. I've traced them all back.
17. I saw a guy claim that the temperature sensor will stop it from starting. I swapped it for a new one. no luck
18. MAF was replaced also a couple of years ago. Its reading flow when cranking.
It seems like the PCM simply isn't sending the ground signal. I have verified wiring, supply power, grounds to the PCM. Verified all my wiring is correct. Habit is to replace one wire at a time. But the colors tell the story. I have the correct wiring diagrams. I have been a troubleshooter in chemical plant research for most of my adult life. That includes instrumentation. Critical thinking is not a stranger. But these trucks are simple. Or so I thought until now.
Any and all suggestions are welcome.
Thanks in advance
I have read so many threads on the subject but most end up finding something I have failed to.
1. compression is good at 160 +/- 15%. Engine was a rebuild 25k miles ago.
2. Crank and cam sensors have new shielded wires, pigtails, and sensors. I thought maybe compromised somewhere. The crank is sending 200+ rpm when starting. My scan tool is fairly intelligent. It plugs in and uses my cell to monitor and run diagnostics. Done a couple of years ago and truck has been running fine. I verified not pinched or any damages.
3. Timing belt is good and was set. I always use my compression tester to know I'm on the compression stroke. The marks aren't perfect but within 1-2 mm. Yes I know the triangles from diamonds on the wheels. Mine won't align perfectly. Like a mm or 2 off. I can get them just before or just after the marks as that comes from moving the belt 1 tooth either way.
As far as I know, these trucks will at least run even if the timing marks aren't perfect. I've seen some run that were 2 teeth off.
4. Wires and plugs were replaced not long ago after hearing a tick with the wire grounding out. Still ran fine.
5. coil packs are new out the box. common for misfires in my 12 years of experience having the truck The coils have the center power verified. The other 2 show 12 v also when plugged into the coil. It seems like the grounding signal from the PCM isn't being supplied. If you unplug the coil, the wires then don't show voltage. Its just feeding through the coil without a ground. I try starting to see if the ground will become present at the signal wires from the PCM with coil unplugged. Never see voltage or ground while cranking unplugged from coil. Its like the PCM isn't there.
I discovered the center wires to both coils get really hot and had melted the tabs to hold it in place. So the wire would barely touch supplying power. That is the start of my journey to replace plugs all over the truck to ensure good contact.
7. Fuel pressure is good at 38. No fuel supply issues.
8. I tried the so called 50/50. Used starting fluid. No joy. Thought I might get lucky.
9. Once, i was testing coil with a test light. got a really big backfire. Again, confirms fuel. Just no spark. don't know how I did it.
10. The PCM is a new one. Local shop is nearby. They have verified the PCM is communicating. They reflashed it for me just to be sure.
11. All injectors, TPC, IAC, VSS are new and also have new pigtails. Again, done a couple of years ago.
12. Verified 5 volts at TPC.
13. No signs the head gasket is blown.
14. No Knock sensors on this year model
15. Oxygen sensors are both fairly new. But I have known the truck to run at least without them.
16. My harness is free of the sheathing right now as I verified there are no melted or shorted wires. The one for the Cam was shorted years ago. So Its something I check. I've traced them all back.
17. I saw a guy claim that the temperature sensor will stop it from starting. I swapped it for a new one. no luck
18. MAF was replaced also a couple of years ago. Its reading flow when cranking.
It seems like the PCM simply isn't sending the ground signal. I have verified wiring, supply power, grounds to the PCM. Verified all my wiring is correct. Habit is to replace one wire at a time. But the colors tell the story. I have the correct wiring diagrams. I have been a troubleshooter in chemical plant research for most of my adult life. That includes instrumentation. Critical thinking is not a stranger. But these trucks are simple. Or so I thought until now.
Any and all suggestions are welcome.
Thanks in advance
Welcome to the forum
Good testing
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
CEL should come on with key on, means PCM(computer) has booted up
Crank the engine
CEL should go OFF as soon as engine starts to spin, that means PCM is getting a good timing pulse from the Crank Sensor, PCM then starts spark and fuel injectors
If CEL stays on then no spark or fuel because PCM has no timing from engine to start these
Crank shaft's harmoinic damper/pulley has a wheel on the back which is called a tone ring or reluctor wheel, it has 35 "teeth",one every 10deg, and one missing "gap" that denotes #1 TDC
The Crank sensor reads each tooth as it passes and sees the gap, PCM uses that to time spark and then injectors
Crank sensor creates its own voltage, its a Variable Reluctance(VR) sensor, so as the metal "tooth" passes by it creates AC Voltage inside the sensor, should have 0.5vAC to 1vAC when cranking, 200rpm
Most sensors can not cause a No Start, only Crank Sensor and sometimes MAF sensor can
1996 2.3l crank pulley seen here: https://www.thewrenchmonkey.ca/image...007_medium.jpg
The tone ring is a Press Fit onto the back of the pulley, while it is VERY rare the ring can slip, so you have spark but at the wrong time, but would have spark
Missing tooth is at 1:00 and cranks woodruff key slot is at 2:00 in the picture
Crank sensor needs to be very close to tone ring but not touching of course, lol
Good testing
Watch the CEL(check engine light)
CEL should come on with key on, means PCM(computer) has booted up
Crank the engine
CEL should go OFF as soon as engine starts to spin, that means PCM is getting a good timing pulse from the Crank Sensor, PCM then starts spark and fuel injectors
If CEL stays on then no spark or fuel because PCM has no timing from engine to start these
Crank shaft's harmoinic damper/pulley has a wheel on the back which is called a tone ring or reluctor wheel, it has 35 "teeth",one every 10deg, and one missing "gap" that denotes #1 TDC
The Crank sensor reads each tooth as it passes and sees the gap, PCM uses that to time spark and then injectors
Crank sensor creates its own voltage, its a Variable Reluctance(VR) sensor, so as the metal "tooth" passes by it creates AC Voltage inside the sensor, should have 0.5vAC to 1vAC when cranking, 200rpm
Most sensors can not cause a No Start, only Crank Sensor and sometimes MAF sensor can
1996 2.3l crank pulley seen here: https://www.thewrenchmonkey.ca/image...007_medium.jpg
The tone ring is a Press Fit onto the back of the pulley, while it is VERY rare the ring can slip, so you have spark but at the wrong time, but would have spark
Missing tooth is at 1:00 and cranks woodruff key slot is at 2:00 in the picture
Crank sensor needs to be very close to tone ring but not touching of course, lol
Last edited by RonD; Jul 16, 2023 at 01:05 PM.
It appears the missing tooth is at the right position as shown in your photo.
There is no spark at all. Not at any time. With a new PCM and verified to be communicating when they bench tested it for me. They reflashed it anyway just to be sure.
I verified the gap from crank to the tone ring. Not touching. 2 sensors. one new + the one it was running on.
There is no intelligence sent to the PCM for fuel presence. Nothing that would stop the PCM from sending the pulses.
I also verified the crank is sending even though I get the 200 rpm.
Now with regard to the CEL/MIL. It comes on with key on. goes off right after 2 seconds. But when cranking, comes back on.
What is your opinion?
I also did previously try with and without the MAF. I double checked wiring there and ensured no wire damage. I put on a new pigtail there also 2 years ago and when I did, i pulled the wired out the harness to I could see the entire wire so there is no guess there could be an issue. With my truck, its power, ground, and 2 signal wires. It also reads flow while cranking.
There is no spark at all. Not at any time. With a new PCM and verified to be communicating when they bench tested it for me. They reflashed it anyway just to be sure.
I verified the gap from crank to the tone ring. Not touching. 2 sensors. one new + the one it was running on.
There is no intelligence sent to the PCM for fuel presence. Nothing that would stop the PCM from sending the pulses.
I also verified the crank is sending even though I get the 200 rpm.
Now with regard to the CEL/MIL. It comes on with key on. goes off right after 2 seconds. But when cranking, comes back on.
What is your opinion?
I also did previously try with and without the MAF. I double checked wiring there and ensured no wire damage. I put on a new pigtail there also 2 years ago and when I did, i pulled the wired out the harness to I could see the entire wire so there is no guess there could be an issue. With my truck, its power, ground, and 2 signal wires. It also reads flow while cranking.
If CEL goes off then PCM is off so no spark or fuel
Reads like a wiring issue maybe PCM relay issue
Jumper PCM relay slots 30 and 87 together to give PCM power full time and see if the CEL stays on, have key on
Ford used two different kinds of relays, Mini and Micro
Mini slots seen here: https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/...iring-840x.jpg
Micro slots seen here: https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/...lay-wiring.jpg
30 and 87 do the same thing on both, well ALL relays really, pass power to a device
If CEL stays on more than 2 seconds after connecting the two slots, then you can try to start the engine, CEL should then go OFF when engine is tuirning
If it starts and runs then you can try replacing the PCM relay, if same thing is happening then its most likely the wire from ignition switch to activate PCM relay, but lets do the testing first, lol
Reads like a wiring issue maybe PCM relay issue
Jumper PCM relay slots 30 and 87 together to give PCM power full time and see if the CEL stays on, have key on
Ford used two different kinds of relays, Mini and Micro
Mini slots seen here: https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/...iring-840x.jpg
Micro slots seen here: https://www.gtsparkplugs.com/images/...lay-wiring.jpg
30 and 87 do the same thing on both, well ALL relays really, pass power to a device
If CEL stays on more than 2 seconds after connecting the two slots, then you can try to start the engine, CEL should then go OFF when engine is tuirning
If it starts and runs then you can try replacing the PCM relay, if same thing is happening then its most likely the wire from ignition switch to activate PCM relay, but lets do the testing first, lol
Tested with jumper to PCM power and even did the fuel just for kicks. I measured the voltage to the PCM as it was cranking/spinning. It never dropped below 11.5 v. So the PCM power is not the blame.
The CEL behavior repeats.
Turn key on , no cranking/spinning = CEL on but off in 2 seconds,
CEL comes back on during cranking/spinning.
You said two different things. It should remain off during cranking/spinning?
Im thinking you mean if it comes back on during cranking, it is not liking something.
It did run one time mysteriously. I turned the truck around into the shade. It died again and hasn't started again.
So something is telling the PCM not to fire and giving the light. But no code! Aside from the dreaded system test p1000
I know it a wiring issue that occurred in the drive thru. its like a wire got hot and is making contact somewhere. Hence all the new shielded wires that are new for Crank, cam, VSS. The VSS was shorted before but certainly isn't now. And they checked the PCM after I found the short.
The CEL behavior repeats.
Turn key on , no cranking/spinning = CEL on but off in 2 seconds,
CEL comes back on during cranking/spinning.
You said two different things. It should remain off during cranking/spinning?
Im thinking you mean if it comes back on during cranking, it is not liking something.
It did run one time mysteriously. I turned the truck around into the shade. It died again and hasn't started again.
So something is telling the PCM not to fire and giving the light. But no code! Aside from the dreaded system test p1000
I know it a wiring issue that occurred in the drive thru. its like a wire got hot and is making contact somewhere. Hence all the new shielded wires that are new for Crank, cam, VSS. The VSS was shorted before but certainly isn't now. And they checked the PCM after I found the short.
No,its pretty much the same on all Fords
Key on, CEL comes on and stays on
Cranking engine turns off CEL if its getting a good timing pulse
CEL will come back on after startup, IF there is an issue and codes have been set
Haven't run into CEL coming on while cranking because of a problem
Do you have a OBD2 reader that can see LIVE DATA or borrow one
I would set it to see RPMs and see what it shows as cranking speed, about 200rpms
Also when OBD2 is connected and you turn on the key if the OBD2 reader connects and then after 2 seconds disconnects then computer is off, internally
Key on, CEL comes on and stays on
Cranking engine turns off CEL if its getting a good timing pulse
CEL will come back on after startup, IF there is an issue and codes have been set
Haven't run into CEL coming on while cranking because of a problem
Do you have a OBD2 reader that can see LIVE DATA or borrow one
I would set it to see RPMs and see what it shows as cranking speed, about 200rpms
Also when OBD2 is connected and you turn on the key if the OBD2 reader connects and then after 2 seconds disconnects then computer is off, internally
As in the original question. I get 200+ rpm.
If you read my first posting, I think you will see why I'm so baffled.
I appreciate you trying to help me out.
I bought a coil tester and it should arrive today. That will settle my mind about the coil integrity.
If you read my first posting, I think you will see why I'm so baffled.
I appreciate you trying to help me out.
I bought a coil tester and it should arrive today. That will settle my mind about the coil integrity.
It has to be a wire that rubbed or melted sending an error. But it can't be Crank, Cam, TPS, IAC, a power supply or ground issue to the PCM. its getting a signal from the crank. The PCM has been bench tested to be working fine.
If I ever find out, I will have to post so the knowledge is out there. This sucks!
If I ever find out, I will have to post so the knowledge is out there. This sucks!
No one can "bench test" a Ford PCM, not even Ford
Even the Ford Shop manuals go thru all the tests and then say "try a new PCM", lol
You can hook up an OBD2 reader to the vehicle and select Live Data
Then look at what the computer is seeing from each sensor with key on
Then watch what its seeing while cranking engine
Even the Ford Shop manuals go thru all the tests and then say "try a new PCM", lol
You can hook up an OBD2 reader to the vehicle and select Live Data
Then look at what the computer is seeing from each sensor with key on
Then watch what its seeing while cranking engine
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