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  #26  
Old 12-23-2005
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I change mine when dirty. Use Advance Auto 5w-30 in winter, 10w-30 in summer. It is Havoline fleet oil, with a lot of detergents.

In stuff I care about, I use Penn or VR1.

None of my stuff ever see's a Fram filter.
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  #27  
Old 12-23-2005
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fram= poo i have read and even seen that napa gold is about the best...
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  #28  
Old 12-23-2005
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http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Th...%20Mile%20Myth

The US is one of the only countries that has 3k oil change. Overseas, it is easily 5-10K between changes on non-synthetic oils.
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  #29  
Old 12-23-2005
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As he so often does, 3LiterBeater has again given us an opinion that is obviously not based on research and the facts. It would be nice if he would at least once take the time to do sufficient basic, background research and inform himself before shooting his mouth off. At a mere 17 years of age, this guy acts like he knows it all. Where he got the time to become the walking encyclopedia he seems to think he is is beyond me. He says, among other things:

"You are a total moron if:
-You think frequent oil changes is detrimental to your engine.
-You run more than 3000 miles on ANY oil.
-You think fancy, expensive, synthetic oil doesn't contaminate because it has "detergents" in it."

As to being "a total moron if you think fancy, expensive, oil doesn't contaminate", the fact is that OIL does not CONTAMINATE an engine. Oil BECOMES contaminated while in the engine. Enough said on this asinine statement. Obviously synthetic oil becomes contaminated while in use in the engine. No one has ever claimed that it doesn't. But the fact is that synthetic oil does not break down as quickly as, and lasts longer than, conventional oil. It therefore can be used longer in the engine.

As to being "a total moron if you run more than 3,000 miles on ANY oil", this statement clearly shows his ignorance. A few hours of reading the hits provided by well-worded Google searches and spending some time on bobistheoilguy.com would have informed him of the fact that neutral, independent experts in the field of engines and lubricants, people who study such things for a living and have a lot of experience under their belt, have reached a common consensus that with certain motor oils, especially synthetic oil, most engines can go 5,000 to 10,000 miles between oil changes with no adverse effect on the engine. This has been proven by independent tests of the oil after usage for that period of time. According to these experts, the 3,000 mile oil change is a thing of the past and a waste of time and money. Even the oil companies, which stand to loose money if their customers change their oil less often, now say this. The fact is that both engines and oils are much better than they were, and last a lot longer than they did, 25 or more years ago (when the 3,000 mile oil change WAS a good idea).
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  #30  
Old 12-23-2005
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I dunno. I paid like $0.50 a quart, and get the $3 filter at autozone and change my oil every 3-5K miles. Maybe I am wasting my time, but hey, it gives me a chance to look over the bottom half of the truck and to check things out to make sure there are no problems, or any problems that may creep up in the future. I had always changed my oil every 3-5K miles. it even says so in the manual to change at 5K miles. regardless of "research" oil is oil, and will remian its lubricating properties alot longer than most would like to admit, its just the way it is. I have seen my buddy drive 50,000 miles on 1 oil change. sure his car was a hunk of crap, and his oil was the blackest crap filled stuff i have ever seen, but it didnt "blow up" his engine. the point here, is stick to what you know, and if your unsure check your manual. they post this information in there for a reason. Maybe new oils can go longer, hey, thats cool for the guy that can fix anything, and can make a rocket out of a stick and some mud, or the other guy with 50 million in the bank, but to me, if ford says every 5K then thats when I change it, period. I mean seriously, lets be realistic here, whats the chances of things going bad at 8,000 miles? slim to none, but even so, IF they were to go bad, can u afford to replace an engine/spend lots of time with no vehical? I cant, so I do my duties and change it at 5K miles.
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  #31  
Old 12-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
As he so often does, 3LiterBeater has again given us an opinion that is obviously not based on research and the facts. It would be nice if he would at least once take the time to do sufficient basic, background research and inform himself before shooting his mouth off. At a mere 17 years of age, this guy acts like he knows it all. Where he got the time to become the walking encyclopedia he seems to think he is is beyond me. He says, among other things:

"You are a total moron if:
-You think frequent oil changes is detrimental to your engine.
-You run more than 3000 miles on ANY oil.
-You think fancy, expensive, synthetic oil doesn't contaminate because it has "detergents" in it."

As to being "a total moron if you think fancy, expensive, oil doesn't contaminate", the fact is that OIL does not CONTAMINATE an engine. Oil BECOMES contaminated while in the engine. Enough said on this asinine statement. Obviously synthetic oil becomes contaminated while in use in the engine. No one has ever claimed that it doesn't. But the fact is that synthetic oil does not break down as quickly as, and lasts longer than, conventional oil. It therefore can be used longer in the engine.

As to being "a total moron if you run more than 3,000 miles on ANY oil", this statement clearly shows his ignorance. A few hours of reading the hits provided by well-worded Google searches and spending some time on bobistheoilguy.com would have informed him of the fact that neutral, independent experts in the field of engines and lubricants, people who study such things for a living and have a lot of experience under their belt, have reached a common consensus that with certain motor oils, especially synthetic oil, most engines can go 5,000 to 10,000 miles between oil changes with no adverse effect on the engine. This has been proven by independent tests of the oil after usage for that period of time. According to these experts, the 3,000 mile oil change is a thing of the past and a waste of time and money. Even the oil companies, which stand to loose money if their customers change their oil less often, now say this. The fact is that both engines and oils are much better than they were, and last a lot longer than they did, 25 or more years ago (when the 3,000 mile oil change WAS a good idea).
Dont forget the breakdown on your babbit bearings.
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  #32  
Old 12-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRanger02
i dont think i tottaly agree with you on that... that is the whole purpose of a heavy duty deisel oil, to extend the iterval of an oil change... i have heard of people running a good synthetic, rotella, amsoil ect.. and ONLY changing the filter at 3-5k, so they do a oil change about every other filter...

now that i know what i do.. ill probally be going back to retella in the spring/summer 5w40
The point I have tried and tried to make is that some oils may not "break down" as quickly as others, BUT... OIL STILL GETS DIRTY REGARDLESS OF WEIGHT, BASE, OR BRAND... Do you want dirty oil in your motor? I know I sure don't...
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  #33  
Old 12-23-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
As he so often does, 3LiterBeater has again given us an opinion that is obviously not based on research and the facts. It would be nice if he would at least once take the time to do sufficient basic, background research and inform himself before shooting his mouth off. At a mere 17 years of age, this guy acts like he knows it all. Where he got the time to become the walking encyclopedia he seems to think he is is beyond me. He says, among other things:

"You are a total moron if:
-You think frequent oil changes is detrimental to your engine.
-You run more than 3000 miles on ANY oil.
-You think fancy, expensive, synthetic oil doesn't contaminate because it has "detergents" in it."

As to being "a total moron if you think fancy, expensive, oil doesn't contaminate", the fact is that OIL does not CONTAMINATE an engine. Oil BECOMES contaminated while in the engine. Enough said on this asinine statement. Obviously synthetic oil becomes contaminated while in use in the engine. No one has ever claimed that it doesn't. But the fact is that synthetic oil does not break down as quickly as, and lasts longer than, conventional oil. It therefore can be used longer in the engine.

As to being "a total moron if you run more than 3,000 miles on ANY oil", this statement clearly shows his ignorance. A few hours of reading the hits provided by well-worded Google searches and spending some time on bobistheoilguy.com would have informed him of the fact that neutral, independent experts in the field of engines and lubricants, people who study such things for a living and have a lot of experience under their belt, have reached a common consensus that with certain motor oils, especially synthetic oil, most engines can go 5,000 to 10,000 miles between oil changes with no adverse effect on the engine. This has been proven by independent tests of the oil after usage for that period of time. According to these experts, the 3,000 mile oil change is a thing of the past and a waste of time and money. Even the oil companies, which stand to loose money if their customers change their oil less often, now say this. The fact is that both engines and oils are much better than they were, and last a lot longer than they did, 25 or more years ago (when the 3,000 mile oil change WAS a good idea).
So quick to pull the age card on me. Pretty sad thats all you got. The fact that I have some common sense doesn't make me a "walking encyclopedia"... If I disagree with you, I'm automatically a 17 year old, smart ***, walking encyclopedia. I'm not an "internet research expert" like yourself, I have REAL EXPERIENCE. You want to throw around your websites you look at it, and it says such a thing, so it must be true. WRONG. I've grown up driving race cars, my dad has been building motors for 35+ years, I think I have a little room to speak here, whether the big and holy JMAC says so or not.

I never said OIL contaminates MOTORS. MOTORS contaminate OIL. Regardless of what oil you run, it gets dirty. Rings don't seal, the crank case is vented, bearings wear, etc. Changing your oil every 10,000 miles is a great idea to get people to pay 6 dollars a quart for some bullcrap wazoo synthetic crap, with half of the "synthetic" oils on the market not even being Ester based. Ya know, I'm not going to start changing my oil at 5,7,10 thousand mile intervals anytime soon, because some "expert" told me its ok. Funny that among all these big, wise people and companies approving of longer intervals between oil changes, The Big Three still wants you to change it every 3K miles in the engines THEY BUILT. I have seen firsthand what happens to oil, what will happen to a motor without clean oil, and I for one would much rather have clean, fresh bean oil in my motor...

On a side note, there is alot of variables in determining intervals. How many heat cycles is such oil change going to go through. Do you drive highway, or stop and go traffic? Whats the climate like in your region?

JMAC... Kiss my 17 year old ***, you butt nugget...
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  #34  
Old 12-24-2005
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Such talk
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  #35  
Old 12-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater
The point I have tried and tried to make is that some oils may not "break down" as quickly as others, BUT... OIL STILL GETS DIRTY REGARDLESS OF WEIGHT, BASE, OR BRAND... Do you want dirty oil in your motor? I know I sure don't...

Then why not just change it when it is dirty?
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  #36  
Old 12-24-2005
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They recommend 3k because they put regular motorcraft oil in it and most people keep putting the same oil and filters on their vehicle as it came with, hence why it says change it every 3k miles. They don't take into account synthetic oil or any other kind of oil. If they started putting synthetic in, they would probably change the manual to the interval that the oil manufacturer recommends.
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  #37  
Old 12-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRanger02
fram= poo i have read and even seen that napa gold is about the best...
I use the WIX racing in things I care about. I buy a bunch at a time though a business, and only get them one or two dollars cheaper than if you were to go buy a NAPA WIX Racing. Same thing, just says Napa.
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  #38  
Old 12-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanted
Then why not just change it when it is dirty?
Thats the point I am making. Cheap *** 80 cent oil and 9 dollar a qt AMSOIL snake oil gets dirty all the same. Because one oil is synthetic, or a different weight, or cost more doesn't make a crap worth of difference. They all get dirty and contaminated. Thank you for proving my point.
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  #39  
Old 12-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone
They recommend 3k because they put regular motorcraft oil in it and most people keep putting the same oil and filters on their vehicle as it came with, hence why it says change it every 3k miles. They don't take into account synthetic oil or any other kind of oil. If they started putting synthetic in, they would probably change the manual to the interval that the oil manufacturer recommends.
You guys keep overlooking what I am trying to point out. Your over complicating things. Synthetic oils may LUBRICATE better, they may not BREAK DOWN as quickly as conventional oil, BUT THEY ALL GET DIRTY AND CONTAMINATED.
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  #40  
Old 12-24-2005
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Funny thing is, we have an Acura 3.2 CL Type S and the manual calls for Mobil 1 Syn at 3,000 mile intervals..
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  #41  
Old 12-24-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PW01
Such talk
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  #42  
Old 12-24-2005
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My 92 on conventional get an easy 5k before dirty. I don't know anything on the 3.0's, and how long they should last.
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  #43  
Old 12-25-2005
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i have a 93 4.0 and the only oil that has ever been in it and will be in it is penzoil 5w-30 i belive dont rember got to look at the bottle but i change it evey 3000 miles because i also have 18500 miles on my truck it goes in clean and comes out clean every time i change it
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  #44  
Old 12-28-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LiterBeater
So quick to pull the age card on me. Pretty sad thats all you got. The fact that I have some common sense doesn't make me a "walking encyclopedia"... If I disagree with you, I'm automatically a 17 year old, smart ***, walking encyclopedia. I'm not an "internet research expert" like yourself, I have REAL EXPERIENCE. You want to throw around your websites you look at it, and it says such a thing, so it must be true. WRONG. I've grown up driving race cars, my dad has been building motors for 35+ years, I think I have a little room to speak here, whether the big and holy JMAC says so or not.

I never said OIL contaminates MOTORS. MOTORS contaminate OIL. Regardless of what oil you run, it gets dirty. Rings don't seal, the crank case is vented, bearings wear, etc. Changing your oil every 10,000 miles is a great idea to get people to pay 6 dollars a quart for some bullcrap wazoo synthetic crap, with half of the "synthetic" oils on the market not even being Ester based. Ya know, I'm not going to start changing my oil at 5,7,10 thousand mile intervals anytime soon, because some "expert" told me its ok. Funny that among all these big, wise people and companies approving of longer intervals between oil changes, The Big Three still wants you to change it every 3K miles in the engines THEY BUILT. I have seen firsthand what happens to oil, what will happen to a motor without clean oil, and I for one would much rather have clean, fresh bean oil in my motor...

On a side note, there is alot of variables in determining intervals. How many heat cycles is such oil change going to go through. Do you drive highway, or stop and go traffic? Whats the climate like in your region?

JMAC... Kiss my 17 year old ***, you butt nugget...
You DID say oil contaminates. Your exact words were: "You are a total moron if . . . You think fancy, expensive, synthetic oil doesn't contaminate because it has 'detergents' in it."

As to your reference to my pulling the age card on you and that's all I've got, you obviously are ignoring the rest of my previous post, in which I make other points.

Its a simple fact that at 17 years of age you can't possibly have that much experience in, and knowledge of, something like the protective properties of motor oil and how long such properties last. I don't care how long you might have worked on vehicles with your dad. A kid doesn't know squat about such things until he at least gets up into his early teens. And the mere fact that someone has driven race cars and has a dad who builds engines doesn't mean that the person knows anything about the protective properties of motor oil and how long such properties last. For that matter, neither does how long the kid's worked on motor vehicles with his dad. I know a number of people who've worked on motor vehicles for decades who show a shocking lack of knowledge about certain things, even though they know a lot about many other things. I know people whose dads rebuild engines and the people couldn't care less about working on vehicles. I've known people who've raced cars who don't know much about maintaining them.

You want to talk about the "REAL experience" that you brag about? The rest of us also have experience you know. If experience is what you think matters, then I've been working on cars and trucks since 1956, when I was 13 years old, and I've been driving (and maintaining) them since 1958. So your pitiful few years of experience is a joke compared to my experience. As to the experts I referred to in my previous post, my words were "neutral, independent experts in the field of engines and lubricants, people who study such things for a living and have a lot of experience under their belt".

As to your driving race cars, anyone who knows what they're talking about knows that you can't compare race cars to daily drivers when talking about how long oil lasts. As you yourself said "there is a lot of variables in determining intervals". Nothing lasts as long in a race car as it does in a daily driver.

Of course you don't take what you read when researching an issue as the gospel truth. I didn't say that you should. You sift through the info and opinions and form your own judgments. If you think that your own personal experiences give you all you need to get through life successfully, and that you have nothing to learn from others, you've got a long hard road ahead of you.

You keep referring to oil getting dirty, so it then needs to be changed. Well I've got news for you. Oil doesn't just get dirty, or dark, because of the contaminants it picks up. As oil is used in an engine, the oil ITSELF changes color and darkens, and many oils do so quite quickly, irregardless of how much contaminants the oil picks up. But the question is whether the oil still provides adequate protection, and you can't answer that question by simply looking at the oil and saying "Oh, gee, its dirty, time to change the oil." For one thing, the oil filter filters out most of the contaminants (and so, of course, you also have the question of whether the oil filter is still doing its job). And aside from contaminants, there's the question of whether what the oil company added to the oil as a protective package is still working. You can only determine the level of contaminants and whether the additives are still doing their job by having the used oil tested in a lab, not by looking at how "dirty" the oil is.

As to the Big 3 recommending a 3,000 mi. oil change for all their vehicles, you again don't know what you're talking about. Many vehicles made by the Big 3 (and by overseas manufacturers) now come with a factory recommended oil change of 5,000 to 10,000 miles. My 03 Ranger manual recommends 5,000 miles. Its a fact, deal with it.

You're right about one thing though -- you're "a 17 year old, smart ***". A lot of us on this site don't take too kindly to having some know-it-all kid who hasn't been around long enough to know much about anything tell us things like "You are a total moron if . . . You run more than 3,000 miles on ANY oil."
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  #45  
Old 12-29-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01rededge
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Th...%20Mile%20Myth

The US is one of the only countries that has 3k oil change. Overseas, it is easily 5-10K between changes on non-synthetic oils.
Convert Kilometers to miles...
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  #46  
Old 12-29-2005
D.
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"I don't care how long you might have worked on vehicles with your dad. A kid doesn't know squat about such things until he at least gets up into his early teens."

I was pulling Trannies/engines and rebuilding trannies when I was 13. Was rebuilding them even earlier.. well over 20+ years ago.

*I* change oil every 2500 miles. I ( more or less ) dont TRUST synthetic oils or the hype about them. If someone wishes to go 5000 miles between changes, good for them.. Not happening with my mills. Ive blown/beat and built REAL Hemis, 427 Side Oilers, a ZL1.. Oil and water failures are what kill engines almost as bad as human stupidity.
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  #47  
Old 12-29-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanted
Then why not just change it when it is dirty?
What is Dirty oil? Can an oil be a nice light brown color yet not lubricate properly? Will an oils properties change after being heated/cooled/heated again a few hundred times.. can certian elements of a ' synthetic ' oil burn out its ridgidity before the mineral basing of it does.. you betcha. And vise versa as well.
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  #48  
Old 12-30-2005
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D, I'd say you run your engines a little bit harder than most.....
When you change your spark plugs bi-monthly.. that tends to confirm it... :)

**Directed to 3literassclown**
I guess I'm a total f-in moron then.

Fact of the matter is If you dont agree with my opinion please keep it civil.
The forum used to be friendly but its going downhill fast with a half dozen
people or less making it that way.

Farthermore. If you know so much POST a source for your stated opinion.
I CAN.

Rand
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  #49  
Old 12-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand
**Directed to 3literassclown**
I guess I'm a total f-in moron then.

Fact of the matter is If you dont agree with my opinion please keep it civil.
The forum used to be friendly but its going downhill fast with a half dozen
people or less making it that way.

Farthermore. If you know so much POST a source for your stated opinion.
I CAN.

Rand
I guess so. SOURCE? Unlike you guys my "source" isn't an internet bullsquat testimonial or some yoohoo bobtheoilguybilllubricantdudefella.com...
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  #50  
Old 12-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
Its a simple fact that at 17 years of age you can't possibly have that much experience in, and knowledge of, something like the protective properties of motor oil and how long such properties last.
Why not? I've seen the inside of HUNDREDS of engines. I pull motors down to the crank. How often do you see main bearings? Big end rod bearings? Crank journals? Pistons? Rings? Ring landings? Wrist pins?... I bet I have seen more internals in the last 3 months than you have seen EVER... I have a pretty good idea as to what goes on with oil, its life, its heat range, its lubrication quality. Our 9,000 rpm 358 inch motors with 230 psi compression that build way more heat, endure way more load, spin constant rpm well above your trucks redline for an hour DONT RUN SYNTHETIC OIL and THEY GET THE OIL CHANGED EVERY DAY OUT because regardless of what we run in them, they all get DIRTY..



Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
I don't care how long you might have worked on vehicles with your dad. A kid doesn't know squat about such things until he at least gets up into his early teens. And the mere fact that someone has driven race cars and has a dad who builds engines doesn't mean that the person knows anything about the protective properties of motor oil and how long such properties last.
A person whos living depends on the quality and longevity of an engine built by such person doesn't know anything about oil? Put down the crack pipe old timer...


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
For that matter, neither does how long the kid's worked on motor vehicles with his dad. I know a number of people who've worked on motor vehicles for decades who show a shocking lack of knowledge about certain things, even though they know a lot about many other things. I know people whose dads rebuild engines and the people couldn't care less about working on vehicles. I've known people who've raced cars who don't know much about maintaining them.
Your telling me I know nothing about my own business. I spend 10 hours a day in the shop, I'm as much a part of building, repairing, and mantaining the vehicles I race as I am a driver... This is ridiculous, this is like me telling an Engineer he doesn't have basic mathematic skills...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
So your pitiful few years of experience is a joke compared to my experience.
Whats pitiful is that in your 400 years of automotive experience your as ignorant as anyone could be...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
As to your driving race cars, anyone who knows what they're talking about knows that you can't compare race cars to daily drivers when talking about how long oil lasts. As you yourself said "there is a lot of variables in determining intervals". Nothing lasts as long in a race car as it does in a daily driver.
I didn't directly compare race applications to street applications..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
If you think that your own personal experiences give you all you need to get through life successfully, and that you have nothing to learn from others, you've got a long hard road ahead of you.
I don't consider someone running off about something he "sourced" from "experts" on the internet as something to be "learned" from he/she.. Your damn right the only thing I do, and will believe is what I see with my own two eyes, through trial and error, not some horsecrap I heard from you... Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.. But, in the same sense, I guess my "word" is no more credible than your own..

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmacmaster
You're right about one thing though -- you're "a 17 year old, smart ***". A lot of us on this site don't take too kindly to having some know-it-all kid who hasn't been around long enough to know much about anything tell us things like "You are a total moron if . . . You run more than 3,000 miles on ANY oil."
Well then, you all should have an "old timer" pow wow and just boot me outta here for not being 90 years old. I guess as long as you old guys are around, I'm not welcome. Thats fine. This forum is full of ignorant, internet pro, jackasses... regardless of age. Maybe I'll come back when I'm old, run synthetic oil for 900,000 miles, and agree with everyones horsecrap... maybe then I will be welcome...
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