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  #26  
Old 04-29-2006
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Originally Posted by 2003stealthedge
i know, but aleast im a buff whack job!!!!
Do you have a picture? At 249 im not seeing a buff whackjob because you'd be one ripped mofocker.
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  #27  
Old 04-29-2006
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Not so. Did you read the reference from the research or not? Do you know what DNA strand breakage is and what it implies. I actually GAVE you the information. Try to understand it or not, whatever.

Since it would be a long term risk, and it's usage is not long established and studied, it's a very good reasoning process to look at it.

My, you guys get very emotional when challenged with facts. Interesting. Are you so emotionally wedded to "chemical enchancement" that you can't stand to look at facts and make a reasoned decision?

And that's not true about supplements. Some accumulate, some use up liver enzymes being metabolized and cause indirect toxicity, etc. It's well know that MOST people do not look into supplements closely, and you folks appear to be some of them.

It's AMAZING to me that you allow yourselves to be "sold" on this stuff by the people marketing it. Perhaps, YOU should do some research before you post, as I did.
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  #28  
Old 04-29-2006
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eh as long as it works. People do worse. Why do people smoke when it causes alot. People drink like fish when it poses alot of threats as well. If i take this for the rest of my life i could see the dangers but i wont be.
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  #29  
Old 04-29-2006
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demonstrated to enhance nitric oxide activity and normalize vascular function in patients with heart disease.
Also found this, no research supporting NO gaining strength. No pointed out risk tho either.
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Nitric oxide
Muscle Pumper?
Nitric oxide (NO) supplements actually contain arginine, which is converted into NO in the body. NO is supposed to speed growth and recovery time. Sounds great until you consider the credible research--there isn't any.
Quote:
The chemical is nitric oxide (NO), which is primarily produced in the blood vessels' endothelium, or lining. There it increases blood flow, prevents fatty deposits from sticking to blood vessel walls, keeps walls from getting too thick and stiff, and prevents the arteries from narrowing.



And finally! To smash your argument into the ground. Probably the most important part,

Quote:
Nitric oxide (NO) supplements actually contain arginine
Aaron
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  #30  
Old 04-29-2006
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Originally Posted by n3elz
Not so. Did you read the reference from the research or not? Do you know what DNA strand breakage is and what it implies. I actually GAVE you the information. Try to understand it or not, whatever.

Since it would be a long term risk, and it's usage is not long established and studied, it's a very good reasoning process to look at it.

My, you guys get very emotional when challenged with facts. Interesting. Are you so emotionally wedded to "chemical enchancement" that you can't stand to look at facts and make a reasoned decision?

And that's not true about supplements. Some accumulate, some use up liver enzymes being metabolized and cause indirect toxicity, etc. It's well know that MOST people do not look into supplements closely, and you folks appear to be some of them.

It's AMAZING to me that you allow yourselves to be "sold" on this stuff by the people marketing it. Perhaps, YOU should do some research before you post, as I did.
Howabout you do your research first buddy.

Your body needs a certain amound of nitric oxide to (summing up really generally) have good blood flow etc etc. Boosted levels of it also help bring down the risk of heart disease. Now you're gonna say "well too much is bad for you and will give you cancer". Well, what is too much? Your body takes the arginine and converts it to nitric oxide. Anyone with a sophomore highschool biology class under their belt knows that your body almost always processes what it needs then pushes the rest out as waste. So these supplements push large amounts of arginine and your body uses a good portion for a *heightened* level of Nitric Oxide which is good for you. Also, I'm not 100% sure about the ingredients of Nitrix, but usually the workout drugs have a lot more carbos or proteins in them, sortof "filler".

Aaron
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  #31  
Old 04-29-2006
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Boy, not so. You haven't really said anything. Here's what's so:

The arginine is converted to NO, and not JUST in the endothelial cells. This is the problem.

The research has been done because vasodilators and like Viagra and so forth exploit similar mechanisms to increase flow. This is why NO enhancing are used to treat heart disease.

Oh, by the way, genius: these are prescription which tell you there are many risks to using them.

Finally, anything which breaks DNA strands is BAD. Are you having a problem understanding that? Do you really think what you posted "smashes" arguments?

Because no one has yet done long term studies on NO increases, do you think that the information already in on DNA strand breakage is not credible? Do you not understand how cancer works?

Truly, you are not impressing me.
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  #32  
Old 04-29-2006
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Originally Posted by Red_Ak_Ranger
Howabout you do your research first buddy.

Your body needs a certain amound of nitric oxide to (summing up really generally) have good flow etc etc. Boosted levels of it also help bring down the risk of heart disease. Now you're gonna say "well too much is bad for you and will give you cancer". Well, what is too much? Your body takes the arginine and converts it to nitric oxide. Anyone with a sophomore highschool biology class under their belt knows that your body almost always processes what it needs then pushes the rest out as waste. So these supplements push large amounts of arginine and your body uses a good portion for a *heightened* level of Nitric Oxide which is good for you. Also, I'm not 100% sure about the ingredients of Nitrix, but usually the workout have a lot more carbos or proteins in them, sortof "filler".

Aaron
I've highlighted key points of your argument that make is useless.

So you think your body just gets rid of anything harmful? How about iron? Do you know iron supplementation in men can lead to all sorts of problems? Look it up. Iron is a simple, necessary, compound -- yet YOU can cause it to go out of balance by using supplements.

The fact (again you have problems with this) is that supplements arrive "out of context" -- not like in food with other compounds that modify their uptake and use, and in quantities outside of what the body expects.

And somehow you think your body will just marvelously handle it all?

Very shallow reasoning AGAIN, Aaron.

And how much IS too much? You DON'T know, do you, Aaron? You DON'T know yet you are willing to argue and even convince others it's safe without knowing. That is irresponsible. Very sad for you and for anyone else listening to your arguments.
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  #33  
Old 04-29-2006
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It has also recently been seeing use as a supplement in bodybuilding. It is believed that it's dialation of the blood vessels (vasodilation) increases blood flow to the muscles, which in turn leads to increased strength, endurance and muscle size. As it is a fairly new product on the market, there is as of yet little research to conclusivley prove or disprove these claims. Nitric oxide supplements do not actually contain nitric oxide, but rather arginine and other precursors such as citrulline, Pycnogenol, L-aspartic acid, and ginsenosides which the body synthesizes into nitric oxide.
I'm done discussing it with you. Obviously you're a genius and your years of research outweigh mine. We all now know we're doomed to cancer. I've yet to see anything related to "Nitrix supplement causing cancer" and most of the research shows that Nitrix is good for your body.

Still, I don't see how you're ******* on Nitrix when it actually has no Nitric Oxide in it. It has an amino acid and many other important chemicals. Explain how bad amino acids are please.

Quote:
It has also recently been seeing use as a supplement in bodybuilding. It is believed that it's dialation of the blood vessels (vasodilation) increases blood flow to the muscles, which in turn leads to increased strength, endurance and muscle size. As it is a fairly new product on the market, there is as of yet little research to conclusivley prove or disprove these claims. Nitric oxide supplements do not actually contain nitric oxide, but rather arginine and other precursors such as citrulline, Pycnogenol, L-aspartic acid, and ginsenosides which the body synthesizes into nitric oxide.
Oh, plus you make a GREAT apples and oranges argument with Iron. Big deal, last time i checked they're two different things.

I'm out, you're trying to prove a product with no nitric oxide in it is causing cancer. Laughable.

Aaron
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  #34  
Old 04-29-2006
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Higher levels of l-arginine works by increasing nitric oxide levels. Higher nitric oxide levels may be bad. End of argument. You're the one who seems to not be "getting it". You are taking in far more of this amino acid than you would in normal food. It may be that your body is not prepared to handle that -- again, YOU don't know.

What they "imply" when they say it doesn't have "NO" (nitric oxide) in it, is that somehow it's "safe". This is obviously a fallacy since there are no studies to support that argument. If it IS nitric oxide, or it FORMS nitric oxide, the effect is the same.

Iron is not an apples and oranges argument because YOU opened the fruit basket by saying the body regulates anyway so it doesn't matter. That simple argument about iron demolished you simple premise, whether you caught on or not. It was not saying iron is like NO, it was saying the principle of the body FAILING to regulate supplements you take in is well established.

And who ever said anything about proof, since there are no studies. YOU'RE the one throwing that term around and trying to defend something with no evidence. What I said is that how it works is cause for concern, gave you some initial information to read, and even suggested that certain antioxidants might minimize the hazard.

But instead of, "gee thanks for the warning", you launched into a literal TIRADE about "proof" and what you learned in biology class, etc. You've never refuted the premise of those articles about NO, all you've done is tried to win by emotion and accusation.

Again, very poor debating skills, poor reasoning, and emotional "head banging" of the first order.

Keep using things you don't understand, Aaron. When you grow up and LEARN to read my first post and it's tone, and the information I provided, you may change your mind about this whole conversation.
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  #35  
Old 04-29-2006
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FYI: I'm done in this thread also. You guys can go back to "pumping up" and then you can simply pound anyone who dares challenge you on your supplements.

I dropped in to warn you of the possibilities. 2002StealthEdge decided his fate is to die of cancer (silly) and you decided that if someone hasn't died or whatever you're not listening. Now, "Don Vito" I'm not surprised at. But I am surprised at you, Aaron.

End of input.
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  #36  
Old 04-29-2006
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Originally Posted by n3elz
FYI: I'm done in this thread also. You guys can go back to "pumping up" and then you can simply pound anyone who dares challenge you on your supplements.

I dropped in to warn you of the possibilities. 2002StealthEdge decided his fate is to die of cancer (silly) and you decided that if someone hasn't died or whatever you're not listening. Now, "Don Vito" I'm not surprised at. But I am surprised at you, Aaron.

End of input.

LOOOOOOOOOL john you crack me up but i gotta love ya
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