Nissan Frontier vs. Ford Ranger
#76
03-18-2005
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Originally Posted by n3elz
It's in all of us. But so are you. Look at what you drive, etc.
#77
03-18-2005
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Originally Posted by n3elz
You substitute consumer greed for corporate greed. Both are a problem. Greed is a human nature problem, and NOT limited to big corporations. Some of you liberals forget that.
Us liberals? The majority of corporate leaders are conservatives! I think you have that backwards. Look at G Dubya, Mr. oil man, baseball team owner. Cutting taxes liek a mad man! We need taxes to run our country (not going any further)
I am not turnign this topic, please NO, but I had to say somethign about that staement.
#78
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I guess this ties in with the greed, but now a lot of people are buying cars on social status, they could care less on how much it costs as long as they have that Lexus or BMW. There arent too many people showing off their Fords (other then us). Other than maybe Cadillac (and H2's thought they arent luxury cars), there arent too many US luxury cars that will give that person (and who knows why they think this) that social status of what car they drive
And these were the people that came into NTB while i was working there looking for the 4 cheapest tires...uuughhh...don't buy it if you can't afford to own it...sometimes it's not that they cant afford it, but they were just greedy and thought tires was a good place to cut corners...and then they get into an accident and ruin their $50k car and insurance rates go up...but i'm not bitter :)
And these were the people that came into NTB while i was working there looking for the 4 cheapest tires...uuughhh...don't buy it if you can't afford to own it...sometimes it's not that they cant afford it, but they were just greedy and thought tires was a good place to cut corners...and then they get into an accident and ruin their $50k car and insurance rates go up...but i'm not bitter :)
#79
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My replies to John G's post below are in all caps, and in parentheses, within his post.
Originally Posted by n3elz
He he! Hi, John Mac' -- long time no see! 
I agree with you more than disagree these days (ITS ABOUT TIME Y0U SAW THE LIGHT. I WAS BEGINNING TO THINK I'D NEVER BE ABLE TO BRING YOU AROUND.)-- but buying American MUST be part of the equation, and sometimes it's ALL we can do. (MY POINT WAS THAT SOMETIMES IT HAS NO EFFECT AND THUS CANNOT BE PART OF THE EQUATION, AND ON THE OTHER HAND SOMETIMES IT CAN HAVE AN EFFECT AND BE PART OF THE EQUATION.)
American products may have eventually changed, by public demand, WITHOUT imports. I don't totally buy that imports "improve" American business -- but I concede that it SOMETIMES does. (AGREED.)
I think far often, foreign suppliers are just undercutting us until we wilt. Then they will begin to jack their prices. China is already starting to do this. (NO ****. ITS BEEN SO EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF CAPITALISM AS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN RULES OF THE GAME AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ONE. ITS ONE OF THE WAYS YOU WIN. THE U.S. HAS DONE ITS SHARE OF PLAYING BY THAT RULE. YOU CAN'T FAULT THE OTHER GUYS FROM DOING SO ALSO.)
And I maintain that the availability of cheap imports in MANY sectors still IS the reason for industrial decline. It's an old story: undersell your competitor until they fold. If we can think of it, so can other countries. I believe this does happen. (AGAIN. NO ****. ITS BEEN SO EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF CAPITALISM AS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN RULES OF THE GAME AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ONE. ITS ONE OF THE WAYS YOU WIN. THE U.S. HAS DONE ITS SHARE OF PLAYING BY THAT RULE. YOU CAN'T FAULT THE OTHER GUYS FROM DOING SO ALSO.)
So, with allowances that some of the forces you cite exist, I still don't concede that buying American doesn't help. As I say, NOT doing that makes it worse no matter what -- so how it can be a good thing? The "competitive" argument is too narrow to me to carry any weight in a broad look at the problem.
By the way, that "service economy" you talk about? It's an untried economic theory with plenty of evidence that it will harm us in the long run. How about if we depended on a French owned Asian company for our military firepower? Is that a situation you think would be wise?(I DID NOT SAY THAT I THINK ITS WISE TO MOVE MORE AND MORE TO A LIGHT INDUSTRY AND INFOTECH AND SERVICE ECONOMY, THO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE ARE DOING. I MERELY SAID THAT ITS A FACT THAT THAT IS HAPPENING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK THAT ITS EXTREMELY UNWISE, SHORTSIGHTED, AND HARMFUL IN THE LONG RUN. I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE SHOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO KEEP AND SUPPORT OUR HEAVY INDUSTRY, AND FOR THAT MATTER AS MUCH AS WE CAN OF OUR LIGHT INDUSTRY, AND FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT YOU THINK THAT.)
If the American military ever starts buying from Airbus I give up.
How's things up there in the far north? (JUST FINE. AT WORK WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A REGULAR SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE, FOR WHICH I WORK. ITS BEEN LIKE SPRING HERE MOST OF THE WINTER. HARDLY ANY SNOW OR COLD WEATHER. FAMILY'S FINE. HAD OUR FIRST GRANDCHILD, A BOY, 13 MONTHS AGO.
I agree with you more than disagree these days (ITS ABOUT TIME Y0U SAW THE LIGHT. I WAS BEGINNING TO THINK I'D NEVER BE ABLE TO BRING YOU AROUND.)-- but buying American MUST be part of the equation, and sometimes it's ALL we can do. (MY POINT WAS THAT SOMETIMES IT HAS NO EFFECT AND THUS CANNOT BE PART OF THE EQUATION, AND ON THE OTHER HAND SOMETIMES IT CAN HAVE AN EFFECT AND BE PART OF THE EQUATION.)
American products may have eventually changed, by public demand, WITHOUT imports. I don't totally buy that imports "improve" American business -- but I concede that it SOMETIMES does. (AGREED.)
I think far often, foreign suppliers are just undercutting us until we wilt. Then they will begin to jack their prices. China is already starting to do this. (NO ****. ITS BEEN SO EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF CAPITALISM AS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN RULES OF THE GAME AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ONE. ITS ONE OF THE WAYS YOU WIN. THE U.S. HAS DONE ITS SHARE OF PLAYING BY THAT RULE. YOU CAN'T FAULT THE OTHER GUYS FROM DOING SO ALSO.)
And I maintain that the availability of cheap imports in MANY sectors still IS the reason for industrial decline. It's an old story: undersell your competitor until they fold. If we can think of it, so can other countries. I believe this does happen. (AGAIN. NO ****. ITS BEEN SO EVER SINCE THE BEGINNING OF CAPITALISM AS AN ECONOMIC SYSTEM. THAT'S ONE OF THE MAIN RULES OF THE GAME AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN ONE. ITS ONE OF THE WAYS YOU WIN. THE U.S. HAS DONE ITS SHARE OF PLAYING BY THAT RULE. YOU CAN'T FAULT THE OTHER GUYS FROM DOING SO ALSO.)
So, with allowances that some of the forces you cite exist, I still don't concede that buying American doesn't help. As I say, NOT doing that makes it worse no matter what -- so how it can be a good thing? The "competitive" argument is too narrow to me to carry any weight in a broad look at the problem.
By the way, that "service economy" you talk about? It's an untried economic theory with plenty of evidence that it will harm us in the long run. How about if we depended on a French owned Asian company for our military firepower? Is that a situation you think would be wise?(I DID NOT SAY THAT I THINK ITS WISE TO MOVE MORE AND MORE TO A LIGHT INDUSTRY AND INFOTECH AND SERVICE ECONOMY, THO THAT'S OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE ARE DOING. I MERELY SAID THAT ITS A FACT THAT THAT IS HAPPENING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I THINK THAT ITS EXTREMELY UNWISE, SHORTSIGHTED, AND HARMFUL IN THE LONG RUN. I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH YOU THAT WE SHOULD HAVE CONTINUED TO KEEP AND SUPPORT OUR HEAVY INDUSTRY, AND FOR THAT MATTER AS MUCH AS WE CAN OF OUR LIGHT INDUSTRY, AND FOR THE SAME REASONS THAT YOU THINK THAT.)
If the American military ever starts buying from Airbus I give up.
How's things up there in the far north? (JUST FINE. AT WORK WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A REGULAR SESSION OF THE LEGISLATURE, FOR WHICH I WORK. ITS BEEN LIKE SPRING HERE MOST OF THE WINTER. HARDLY ANY SNOW OR COLD WEATHER. FAMILY'S FINE. HAD OUR FIRST GRANDCHILD, A BOY, 13 MONTHS AGO.
#80
03-18-2005
Whoo hoo! Congrats, "grandpop" or "pop-pop" or however you'll be known!
I have the two, but we lost one last fall. He died in the womb 1 week before his due date. Rotten placenta -- literally. No one knows why. The baby, who would have been named Elijah, was otherwise perfect.
But my daughter is trying again and she's pregnant now with what we hope will be our third.
We had a pretty normal winter down this way. I heard it was unseasonably mild up there. Oh well, that's the weather.
You're scaring me, John -- I'm starting to agree with you on too many things, lol!
Good to see you back on, though.
I have the two, but we lost one last fall. He died in the womb 1 week before his due date. Rotten placenta -- literally. No one knows why. The baby, who would have been named Elijah, was otherwise perfect.
But my daughter is trying again and she's pregnant now with what we hope will be our third.
We had a pretty normal winter down this way. I heard it was unseasonably mild up there. Oh well, that's the weather.
You're scaring me, John -- I'm starting to agree with you on too many things, lol!
Good to see you back on, though.
#81
03-18-2005
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Originally Posted by NHBubba
Even the original design stems from the pre-Ford owned Mazda and a lot of things haven't changed on it since.
The Auto Alliance Rangers on the other hand are heavily influenced by Mazda.
#82
03-19-2005
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Hmmm didn't this thread start out asking about Frontiers compared to Rangers?
Anyway...my opinion is that the Frontier is a way ugly truck with lots of "silly" things on it that are going to fail and need dealer replaced for $60 labor and a $200 part you can't buy at NAPA. As far as the PREMIUM FUEL requirement...ANY FOREIGN TRUCK MADE RIGHT NOW....I.E. TOYOTA OR NISSAN REQUIRES PREMIUM FUEL!!!
They do this for two reasons...one cuz they don't know how to make a torquey motor! Two) for Emissions requirements and to allow them to run higher compression and make for horsepower. Look at their torque numbers...very low.
My gosh the Tundra has like 280 horse and 250 torque...even the BASE FORD V-8 is better...and this is their TOP o LINE engine...gimme a break.
Oh and one last thing...if you have to put a supercharger on from the factory to BOOST perfomance to the level comparable to your competitors is pretty pathetic. The lightning had a supercharger to make INSANE HP and Torque...NOT adequate HP and barely there Torque!
THE END!
Anyway...my opinion is that the Frontier is a way ugly truck with lots of "silly" things on it that are going to fail and need dealer replaced for $60 labor and a $200 part you can't buy at NAPA. As far as the PREMIUM FUEL requirement...ANY FOREIGN TRUCK MADE RIGHT NOW....I.E. TOYOTA OR NISSAN REQUIRES PREMIUM FUEL!!!
They do this for two reasons...one cuz they don't know how to make a torquey motor! Two) for Emissions requirements and to allow them to run higher compression and make for horsepower. Look at their torque numbers...very low.
My gosh the Tundra has like 280 horse and 250 torque...even the BASE FORD V-8 is better...and this is their TOP o LINE engine...gimme a break.
Oh and one last thing...if you have to put a supercharger on from the factory to BOOST perfomance to the level comparable to your competitors is pretty pathetic. The lightning had a supercharger to make INSANE HP and Torque...NOT adequate HP and barely there Torque!
THE END!
#83
03-19-2005
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OK OK I take it back I shoulda looked before I spoke...my info in my brain was dated...I just looked this up...very IMPRESSED with TOYOTA and NISSAN! They still take Premium though.
Ranger FX4 Level II SuperCab 4WD Frontier Tacoma Access Cab V6 4WD
Standard Engine 4.0L 207 hp V6 4.0L 265 hp V6 4.0L 245 hp V6
Horsepower 207 @ 5250 RPM 265 @ 5600 RPM 245 @ 5200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 238 @ 3000 RPM 284 @ 4000 RPM 282 @ 3800 RPM
Valve Configuration 12/SOHC 24/DOHC 24/DOHC
Displacement (cc) 4015 3954 3956
Bore X Stroke (in.) 3.95 X 3.32 3.76 X 3.62 3.70 X 3.74
Compression Ratio 9.7:1 9.7:1 10.0:1
Fuel Type/System Gas/MPFI Gas/SEFI Gas/EFI
Turbocharger No No No
Supercharger No No No
Very impressive that Toyota and Nissan actually have Torque now..just a few years ago they didn't...or at least compared to Ford, Chevy, Dodge
I apologize for my inaccurate rant...
Ranger FX4 Level II SuperCab 4WD Frontier Tacoma Access Cab V6 4WD
Standard Engine 4.0L 207 hp V6 4.0L 265 hp V6 4.0L 245 hp V6
Horsepower 207 @ 5250 RPM 265 @ 5600 RPM 245 @ 5200 RPM
Torque (lb-ft) 238 @ 3000 RPM 284 @ 4000 RPM 282 @ 3800 RPM
Valve Configuration 12/SOHC 24/DOHC 24/DOHC
Displacement (cc) 4015 3954 3956
Bore X Stroke (in.) 3.95 X 3.32 3.76 X 3.62 3.70 X 3.74
Compression Ratio 9.7:1 9.7:1 10.0:1
Fuel Type/System Gas/MPFI Gas/SEFI Gas/EFI
Turbocharger No No No
Supercharger No No No
Very impressive that Toyota and Nissan actually have Torque now..just a few years ago they didn't...or at least compared to Ford, Chevy, Dodge
I apologize for my inaccurate rant...
#84
03-19-2005
#85
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Originally Posted by n3elz
Wow. FOUR pages in just such a short time. Jeff, I bet you never thought it would take off in the direction it did, lol. That's my fault though, I politicized it. I'm not apologizing for that though! I think it's a good discussion.
#86
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Back on the earlier pages about nationality of brands, etc...
Nissan is 45% owned by Renault, 25% owned by a Japanese holding company, and the rest is publically traded. I like that they're designed in CA, and made in Tennessee, but it is true that the profits go to a French conglomerate.
Just the same, Ford, being another international conglomerate, imports the 4.0L and the 5R55E from the EU. Oligarchys rule.
Nissan is 45% owned by Renault, 25% owned by a Japanese holding company, and the rest is publically traded. I like that they're designed in CA, and made in Tennessee, but it is true that the profits go to a French conglomerate.
Just the same, Ford, being another international conglomerate, imports the 4.0L and the 5R55E from the EU. Oligarchys rule.
#88
06-21-2005
Originally Posted by n3elz
I guess you can consider one if it's at least BUILT here -- but I'm still on an "as much as possible buy domestic" kick.
Toyota trucks are VERY nice. It's possible to make the argument that some foreign goods are better; but still not be in favor of buying them.
I meant my statement to be "provocative", I'm afraid!
Leo, I remember you lost a post somewhere else (GenEdge banning topic?) which is why I ragged you about it!
Toyota trucks are VERY nice. It's possible to make the argument that some foreign goods are better; but still not be in favor of buying them.
I meant my statement to be "provocative", I'm afraid!
Leo, I remember you lost a post somewhere else (GenEdge banning topic?) which is why I ragged you about it!
in the words of Hank Hill(King of the hill on fox)"Buy American even if it doesn't work as well."
#90
06-21-2005
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From the United Auto Workers website:
Pickups made in the USA by the UAW union:
Chevrolet Colorado - American Owned
Chevrolet SSR - American Owned
Dodge Dakota - German Owened
Ford Ranger - American Owned
GMC Canyon - American Owned
Lincoln Mark LT - American Owned
Mazda B-series - Japanese Owned
Some are manufactured in the USA by the UAW union while others are mede in Canada and Mexico:
Chevrolet Silverado -- American Owned
Dodge Ram - German Owened
Ford F-series -- American Owned
GMC Sierra - American Owned
Toyota Tacoma - Japanese Owned
Made in the USA by non-union workers:
Toyota Tundra - Japanese Owned
Toyota Sequoia - Japanese Owned
Nissan Frontier - Japanese Owned
Nissan Titan - Japanese Owned
It should also be pointed out that Dodge is now German owned and our beloved 4.0 SOHC is a German engine.
Pickups made in the USA by the UAW union:
Chevrolet Colorado - American Owned
Chevrolet SSR - American Owned
Dodge Dakota - German Owened
Ford Ranger - American Owned
GMC Canyon - American Owned
Lincoln Mark LT - American Owned
Mazda B-series - Japanese Owned
Some are manufactured in the USA by the UAW union while others are mede in Canada and Mexico:
Chevrolet Silverado -- American Owned
Dodge Ram - German Owened
Ford F-series -- American Owned
GMC Sierra - American Owned
Toyota Tacoma - Japanese Owned
Made in the USA by non-union workers:
Toyota Tundra - Japanese Owned
Toyota Sequoia - Japanese Owned
Nissan Frontier - Japanese Owned
Nissan Titan - Japanese Owned
It should also be pointed out that Dodge is now German owned and our beloved 4.0 SOHC is a German engine.
Last edited by SnowGoAK; 06-21-2005 at 03:49 PM.
#91
06-21-2005
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#92
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Originally Posted by rngprerunner
You gotta admit though, the new Yota is a very nice truck.
#94
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#96
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I think on complex finished products like automobiles, "Made in the USA" is a relative term. So many parts come from so many sources that I think it is hard to label the final product as "American Made". Even if final assembly does happen here..
For example as an engineer, I would like to think that design would be a non-trivial part of the process. Where a vehicle was designed should therefore also be important.
For example as an engineer, I would like to think that design would be a non-trivial part of the process. Where a vehicle was designed should therefore also be important.
#97
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General Ford Ranger Discussion
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08-30-2004 10:45 PM
