If you notice the quote in my post, I was answering Mark's post!!

 

he was tellin you to take the test. not go find some one else to ask.

 

Well, as it turned out, I saved him some money, didn't I!

 

no....

 

thats what i thought!

 

can we please get back on topic? don't see how any of this has to do with open air filters! otherwise please start a new topic to argue about thermostats!

 

Mark, let me try to make this clear to you! Pete's opinion of how a thermostat operates is exactly the same as mine, NOT like Rich's, or your's, since you are in 100% agreement with Rich!!

Hopefully this will help you pass the "Heating and Cooling" section on the ASE test!!!

 

Well Mark, you DID NOT know the correct way a thermostat operated, ("i 100% agree rich.") so if you "aced" the test, it must not have had
any questions regarding thermostat operation on it. I
DO KNOW how a thermostat works, and I'm very familiar with thermodynamics, it's used extensively in power electronics!!!!

Pete has is ASE Masters, has published several books, and teaches it:


"AutoServiceTech was founded in April, 2007 by Peter F. Meier, an ASE Master Auto Technician with over 30+ years experience in the automotive field, specializing in electrical/electronic systems diagnosis, and driveability diagnosis. Originally established as a "web" connection for those who follow Pete's articles in Motor Age magazine, it is growing to become a supplier of on-site training and training guides to meet the demands of ever increasing technology.

In January, 2007, Pete began teaching an advanced automotive diagnosis course at a local technical school. He saw the need for education that not only introduced the latest technology, but also reinforced the need to remember the basics. After all, without a solid foundation, there is nothing to build higher skills on. His first book, Automotive Driveability: A Guide to Engine Performance Diagnosis, followed the format of simplified explanations with lots of practical applications to help technicians who were struggling improve their diagnostic capability."


So, like I original stated, he has better credentials than you do!!

 

Bob I find it absolutely amazing that you can point to an opinion of someone who is qualified.. and who says EXACTLY what I've said. And this matches Marks understanding/experience as well.
Yet you simply deny it and WTHOUT SUBSTANCE FROM YOURSELF, say it matches your uninformed opinion instead.

Just amazing.. Bob you could be the poster child for the DNC.






OK I've had my fun with Bob... so back to the original topic.

My conclusion is simply this. If you have a open air filter and a *stock tune* Chances are that your leaving some power on the table. So either step up to a tune where the timing reduction takes place higher... or box in the filter.. or maybe just stick with the stock filter.
I've choosen to go K&N FIPK, box in the filter, and try to semi-duct in fresh air.

Rich

 

I'm afraid not Rich, you have stated that the thermostat has to close to
allow the coolant to cool in the radiator, then Mark said he was in 100% agreement with you! This DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!!

This was your original post, which was WRONG:

"A colder stat will stay open longer and if the heat is great enough.. it won't close. Then what happens is the coolant doesn't stay in the rad long enough to cool down. The whole cooling system just continues to build more and more heat."


And D posted this in the same thread, which contradicts your understanding of how a thermostat works:

"I run a 160degree T-Stat with an External Temp sensor thats in the lower radiator hose ( I believe ZaBeard has his running as well ). Never overheated.. YET. Don't think it will either"


Pete summarized it the best, a thermostat DOES NOT close for cooling!!!!!

 

Rich, i'm curious if you have seen anything about the difference between plastic and aluminum intake piping. It seems to me that the aluminum may absorb more of the engine heat and pass it on to the incoming air. I've also seen products from summit to thermally jacket intake plumbing in hopes of keeping out engine heat.

Also, has anyone ever tried ceramic coating or wrapping there headers and exhaust on a ranger? So instead of trying to keep out engine heat from getting into the engine through the air, stop the engine compartment from getting as hot in the first place?

 

Heat from the radiator is what heats the engine compartment, matter of fact the airflow from the radiator is what goes across the bottom of the intake tube.

 

No, I said that the heat from the radiator is blown across the bottom of the intake tube!!! There is nothing to direct the heat from the manifolds across
the intake tube!

 

Rob, in spite of Bob's limited understanding of heat transfer.. heat does just that. It transfers from one mass to another.
Aluminum/metal will hold the heat longer than will plastic. Buuut it will also take longer to absorb the heat. Same goes for rubber. The stock intakes are made from rubber because of two overiding reasons. First the rubber ones greatly help reduce induction howl and they provide an excellent way for engine rock to not effect the filter housing.

IMO plastic is best for making power because it will cool off the quickest. You can't stop heat soaks on a street vehicle. But you can get rid of the heat quicker than with the stock rubber "zip tube" or a metal version.

btw, I've done numerous tests with how quick the intake charge & engine room cools. Once heat soaked it pretty much takes 25-30mph of vehicle speed to flush the engine room. And it takes a good 3 seconds of WOT (or heavy) throttle to cool that inlet air charge.

Rich

 

Mark, it's like talking to a child who just doesn't comprehend. If Bob would think of it as heat "transfer" he'd understand that world is not a simplistic all or nothing situation.

There are times when the stat is open. And there are times when it's closed. It JUST DEPENDS on how much heat is being supplied by the motor **and** how much heat is being disipated by the other things like exhaust, rad, and surrounding mass. Running down the hwy in the winter.. the stat is closed about 1/2 the time! In the summer it's opening, closing, and is open to small amounts. It just depends on the heat and it's transfer rates.

Bob seems to think a stat is a light switch. All or nothing. It's not like that at all. It's like a water faucet. It can be anywhere from wide open, 1/2 open, 1/4 open, 1/8 open, to fully closed.

I've said this before and Bob won't seem to acknowledge it..

40% of the heat goes out the exhaust.
40% (or less) goes into the cooling system.
20% goes into the air and brackets touching the engine.

In part yes the intake will heat from the rad. Especially when sitting still or creeping along. But thats not the only source of heat.

Heat transfers from hot to cold. It's that simple... no matter what evidence Bob *doesn't give*.

Rich

 

this sucks what could have been a very informative thread about open filters turned into into bickering match about tstats... hoping if i can find a way to get cool air to mine i will see an improvement... every write up i have seen about ram air they get reasonable gains

 

No Rich, what you said was this, which is WRONG!!!


"A colder stat will stay open longer and if the heat is great enough.. it won't close. Then what happens is the coolant doesn't stay in the rad long enough to cool down. The whole cooling system just continues to build more and more heat."

 

Oh it doesn't suck. The info is still there. Just like the rest of life.. you gotta wade though the "Bobs" of the world and look at the facts.

Rich

 

And what I said was true. No matter what your perception is.. it's still true because not only have I done this first hand.. but it's also backed up by science.



Rich

 

in your opinion is a retune still necessary if the filter gets cold air? bad experience with handheld programmers prefer not to get one