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  #101  
Old 10-11-2008
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Originally Posted by fddriver02 View Post
Couldn't do it could you.

In the end I would trust Rich's word against yours any day. He actually tries mods.

If you notice the quote in my post, I was answering Mark's post!!
  #102  
Old 10-11-2008
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I was answering Mark's post!!
he was tellin you to take the test. not go find some one else to ask.
  #103  
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he was tellin you to take the test. not go find some one else to ask.
Well, as it turned out, I saved him some money, didn't I!
  #104  
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Well, as it turned out, I saved him some money, didn't I!
no....
  #105  
Old 10-11-2008
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effin finally. i thought this thread was about open filters and the factory pcm, not a stinkin tstat thread.
thats what i thought!
  #106  
Old 10-12-2008
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he answered my post with SOMEONE ELSE'S opinion!!!!

not his own! this is yet another example of bobs arrogance and lack of knowledge.

hes creditably is zero to me and should be to everyone else on this site and on the entire planet.

he does however take pretty pictures (that no one seems to care about)


  #107  
Old 10-12-2008
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can we please get back on topic? don't see how any of this has to do with open air filters! otherwise please start a new topic to argue about thermostats!
  #108  
Old 10-12-2008
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Originally Posted by 04 EDGE View Post
he answered my post with SOMEONE ELSE'S opinion!!!!

not his own! this is yet another example of bobs arrogance and lack of knowledge.

hes creditably is zero to me and should be to everyone else on this site and on the entire planet.

he does however take pretty pictures (that no one seems to care about)



Mark, let me try to make this clear to you! Pete's opinion of how a thermostat operates is exactly the same as mine, NOT like Rich's, or your's, since you are in 100% agreement with Rich!!

Hopefully this will help you pass the "Heating and Cooling" section on the ASE test!!!
  #109  
Old 10-12-2008
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bob, i aced that test years ago

and FYI ASE tests are area specific, heating and cooling (engine) are grouped in the engine repair test.

HVAC systems have there own test, it has a lot to do with "thermodynamics" something you know nothing about.

and how is your guy more certified?

i have all eight areas covered
  #110  
Old 10-12-2008
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Originally Posted by 04 EDGE View Post
bob, i aced that test years ago

and FYI ASE tests are area specific, heating and cooling (engine) are grouped in the engine repair test.

HVAC systems have there own test, it has a lot to do with "thermodynamics" something you know nothing about.

and how is your guy more certified?

i have all eight areas covered

Well Mark, you DID NOT know the correct way a thermostat operated, ("i 100% agree rich.") so if you "aced" the test, it must not have had
any questions regarding thermostat operation on it. I
DO KNOW how a thermostat works, and I'm very familiar with thermodynamics, it's used extensively in power electronics!!!!

Pete has is ASE Masters, has published several books, and teaches it:


"AutoServiceTech was founded in April, 2007 by Peter F. Meier, an ASE Master Auto Technician with over 30+ years experience in the automotive field, specializing in electrical/electronic systems diagnosis, and driveability diagnosis. Originally established as a "web" connection for those who follow Pete's articles in Motor Age magazine, it is growing to become a supplier of on-site training and training guides to meet the demands of ever increasing technology.

In January, 2007, Pete began teaching an advanced automotive diagnosis course at a local technical school. He saw the need for education that not only introduced the latest technology, but also reinforced the need to remember the basics. After all, without a solid foundation, there is nothing to build higher skills on. His first book, Automotive Driveability: A Guide to Engine Performance Diagnosis, followed the format of simplified explanations with lots of practical applications to help technicians who were struggling improve their diagnostic capability."



So, like I original stated, he has better credentials than you do!!

Last edited by Takeda; 10-12-2008 at 03:26 PM.
  #111  
Old 10-13-2008
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well bob, this i will give you, you did a great job of ruining rich's thread!

your one of R-F's most valuable members!
  #112  
Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Mark, let me try to make this clear to you! Pete's opinion of how a thermostat operates is exactly the same as mine, NOT like Rich's, or your's, since you are in 100% agreement with Rich!!
Bob I find it absolutely amazing that you can point to an opinion of someone who is qualified.. and who says EXACTLY what I've said. And this matches Marks understanding/experience as well.
Yet you simply deny it and WTHOUT SUBSTANCE FROM YOURSELF, say it matches your uninformed opinion instead.

Just amazing.. Bob you could be the poster child for the DNC.






OK I've had my fun with Bob... so back to the original topic.

My conclusion is simply this. If you have a open air filter and a *stock tune* Chances are that your leaving some power on the table. So either step up to a tune where the timing reduction takes place higher... or box in the filter.. or maybe just stick with the stock filter.
I've choosen to go K&N FIPK, box in the filter, and try to semi-duct in fresh air.

Rich
  #113  
Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Bob I find it absolutely amazing that you can point to an opinion of someone who is qualified.. and who says EXACTLY what I've said. And this matches Marks understanding/experience as well.
Yet you simply deny it and WTHOUT SUBSTANCE FROM YOURSELF, say it matches your uninformed opinion instead.
h

I'm afraid not Rich, you have stated that the thermostat has to close to
allow the coolant to cool in the radiator, then Mark said he was in 100% agreement with you! This DOES NOT HAPPEN!!!!

This was your original post, which was WRONG:

"A colder stat will stay open longer and if the heat is great enough.. it won't close. Then what happens is the coolant doesn't stay in the rad long enough to cool down. The whole cooling system just continues to build more and more heat."


And D posted this in the same thread, which contradicts your understanding of how a thermostat works:

"I run a 160degree T-Stat with an External Temp sensor thats in the lower radiator hose ( I believe ZaBeard has his running as well ). Never overheated.. YET. Don't think it will either"


Pete summarized it the best, a thermostat DOES NOT close for cooling!!!!!

Last edited by Takeda; 10-14-2008 at 09:29 AM.
  #114  
Old 10-14-2008
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Rich, i'm curious if you have seen anything about the difference between plastic and aluminum intake piping. It seems to me that the aluminum may absorb more of the engine heat and pass it on to the incoming air. I've also seen products from summit to thermally jacket intake plumbing in hopes of keeping out engine heat.

Also, has anyone ever tried ceramic coating or wrapping there headers and exhaust on a ranger? So instead of trying to keep out engine heat from getting into the engine through the air, stop the engine compartment from getting as hot in the first place?
  #115  
Old 10-14-2008
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Originally Posted by My91Ranger View Post
Rich, i'm curious if you have seen anything about the difference between plastic and aluminum intake piping. It seems to me that the aluminum may absorb more of the engine heat and pass it on to the incoming air. I've also seen products from summit to thermally jacket intake plumbing in hopes of keeping out engine heat.

Also, has anyone ever tried ceramic coating or wrapping there headers and exhaust on a ranger? So instead of trying to keep out engine heat from getting into the engine through the air, stop the engine compartment from getting as hot in the first place?

Heat from the radiator is what heats the engine compartment, matter of fact the airflow from the radiator is what goes across the bottom of the intake tube.

Last edited by Takeda; 10-14-2008 at 08:36 AM.
  #116  
Old 10-15-2008
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so what you are saying bob is the radiator gives off more heat then the exhaust manifolds




you are some piece of work bob.
  #117  
Old 10-16-2008
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so what you are saying bob is the radiator gives off more heat then the exhaust manifolds




you are some piece of work bob.
No, I said that the heat from the radiator is blown across the bottom of the intake tube!!! There is nothing to direct the heat from the manifolds across
the intake tube!
  #118  
Old 10-16-2008
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Rob, in spite of Bob's limited understanding of heat transfer.. heat does just that. It transfers from one mass to another.
Aluminum/metal will hold the heat longer than will plastic. Buuut it will also take longer to absorb the heat. Same goes for rubber. The stock intakes are made from rubber because of two overiding reasons. First the rubber ones greatly help reduce induction howl and they provide an excellent way for engine rock to not effect the filter housing.

IMO plastic is best for making power because it will cool off the quickest. You can't stop heat soaks on a street vehicle. But you can get rid of the heat quicker than with the stock rubber "zip tube" or a metal version.

btw, I've done numerous tests with how quick the intake charge & engine room cools. Once heat soaked it pretty much takes 25-30mph of vehicle speed to flush the engine room. And it takes a good 3 seconds of WOT (or heavy) throttle to cool that inlet air charge.

Rich
  #119  
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Heat from the radiator is what heats the engine compartment.
so the exhaust manifolds put off no heat then right?
  #120  
Old 10-16-2008
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Mark, it's like talking to a child who just doesn't comprehend. If Bob would think of it as heat "transfer" he'd understand that world is not a simplistic all or nothing situation.

There are times when the stat is open. And there are times when it's closed. It JUST DEPENDS on how much heat is being supplied by the motor **and** how much heat is being disipated by the other things like exhaust, rad, and surrounding mass. Running down the hwy in the winter.. the stat is closed about 1/2 the time! In the summer it's opening, closing, and is open to small amounts. It just depends on the heat and it's transfer rates.

Bob seems to think a stat is a light switch. All or nothing. It's not like that at all. It's like a water faucet. It can be anywhere from wide open, 1/2 open, 1/4 open, 1/8 open, to fully closed.

I've said this before and Bob won't seem to acknowledge it..

40% of the heat goes out the exhaust.
40% (or less) goes into the cooling system.
20% goes into the air and brackets touching the engine.

In part yes the intake will heat from the rad. Especially when sitting still or creeping along. But thats not the only source of heat.

Heat transfers from hot to cold. It's that simple... no matter what evidence Bob *doesn't give*.

Rich

Last edited by wydopnthrtl; 10-16-2008 at 06:55 AM.
  #121  
Old 10-16-2008
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this sucks what could have been a very informative thread about open filters turned into into bickering match about tstats... hoping if i can find a way to get cool air to mine i will see an improvement... every write up i have seen about ram air they get reasonable gains
  #122  
Old 10-16-2008
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
I've said this before and Bob won't seem to acknowledge it..

Rich
No Rich, what you said was this, which is WRONG!!!


"A colder stat will stay open longer and if the heat is great enough.. it won't close. Then what happens is the coolant doesn't stay in the rad long enough to cool down. The whole cooling system just continues to build more and more heat."
  #123  
Old 10-16-2008
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Oh it doesn't suck. The info is still there. Just like the rest of life.. you gotta wade though the "Bobs" of the world and look at the facts.

Rich
  #124  
Old 10-16-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
No Rich, what you said was this, which is WRONG!!!


"A colder stat will stay open longer and if the heat is great enough.. it won't close. Then what happens is the coolant doesn't stay in the rad long enough to cool down. The whole cooling system just continues to build more and more heat."
And what I said was true. No matter what your perception is.. it's still true because not only have I done this first hand.. but it's also backed up by science.



Rich
  #125  
Old 10-16-2008
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in your opinion is a retune still necessary if the filter gets cold air? bad experience with handheld programmers prefer not to get one
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