So I have just rebuilt my 3.0 V6 for my 2000 automatic 2-wheel drive Ford Ranger and have been having serious issues with the process of getting the transmission and motor mounted and mated together. This is currently my 3rd try, I had everything back together and went to start the motor and it ran but it didn't seem right. There seemed to be a lot of drag on the motor so I pulled the starter and just peered between the dust cover to look at any potential binding spots. After further inspection, I noticed that the motor side of the torque converter was rubbing against the rear lip of my oil pan. This was the reason I was not getting a smooth rotation of the motor. So I know at this point that the torque converter is not seated all the way on the input shaft. My question is at this point to make sure the torque converter is mated and seated properly what is the best way of doing this without removing the entire motor? I'm racking my brain and I can tell you I don't want to remove the entire engine or drop the transmission unless I absolutely have to. Any input would be appreciated.

 

If torque converter was not seated into the transmission prior to it being bolted to the engine then transmission is broken and must be rebuilt
I did this on my first automatic install 40+ years ago, fresh rebuilt trans, bummer for sure

If you can start the engine then try putting transmission in gear, D or R, doesn't matter and see if it engages, if not then damage is done, the pump in the transmission is broken

Google: How to seat a torque converter
Watch the 2min video
Applies to all automatics

After a torque converter is properly seated, aligned with pump and input shaft, it will be completely inside the bell housing, it actually hits the back of the bell housing in most, so mating the engine and transmission is fairly easy, no need to force the two together
The torque converter will slide forward to be bolted to the flexplate, on torque converters with studs you will need to turn engine or converter to line up the studs with the holes on flexplate

The flexplate should have a spacer between it and the crank on most engines as flexplates are thinner than flywheels

 

Thank you for your response, I have already taken the bell housing bolt out. Without the engine on it did go into reverse and I was able to roll the truck out of my shop I did this for two reasons one my shop has an inclined drive way and I didn't want my truck rolling away from me in neutral. The second reason was I wanted to see if the input shaft was binding up. When I pushed it out in reverse there was no sound of grinding or anything breaking it rolled very smoothly. I hope that the input shaft wasn't seated so essential it wasn't engaged far enough for the splines to align and therefore just free spinning. I'm not sure if this would have confirmed the trans is damaged or if I will have to put everything back together only to find out that the trans is done.

 

No, there would be no grinding while rolling/pushing an automatic in gear out of a garage
Only test to see if transmissions pump is broken is with engine running to see if engine can move the vehicle while in gear


All automatics run on fluid pressure provided by the internal pump(front pump), this pump is connected by slots and tabs to outside case of the torque converter, so pump only pumps/spins when engine is running
Need 80-100psi pressure for D, 140-160psi for R

You rotate the torque converter while pushing in on it to line up the slots/tabs on the pump's drive with torque converter, and the torque converter slides in all the way when they are aligned
If you force torque converter into the transmission it breaks the drive on the pump, so no pump and no fluid pressure, so no "in gear"

In this picture: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/4a8AA...W/s-l1200.webp
You can see the flat spot on torque converter shaft, there is one on each side, they need to be aligned with the pumps drive, if not and you tighten up the bell housing bolts the drive breaks

If you didn't seat the torque converter, as seen in the video, then you most likely broke the pump drive inside the transmission

 

**** my life

 

Exactly what I said 40 years ago when I did this

 

So today I unbolted the flywheel and figured out my issue with the rubbing. The flywheel has a spacer that goes between the back of the crack and the flywheel, I had that spacer on the rear of the flywheel towards the bed of the truck. So after I found that out I removed the toqure converter and tried to reseat it. Unfortunately the input shaft is sticking to far out and I can't get it pulled out to reseat it. I have tried everything from using a piece of rubber hose on the splins with vicegrips and a slide hammer to pulling on it by hand. I think the only way to get the input shaft out is to remove the bellhousing skirt itself. The trans is still in the truck and the motor is unmounted suspended from my 6 ton engine hoist. The only problem is clearance, I lm not sure if that the right thing to do but I'm running out of options and my patience was used up about 4 weeks ago.

 

The input shaft does have a front and back end, so can be put in backwards and it will stick out too far
If memory serves it should stick out passed the stator no more than 1" if its farther out then it is in backwards

Removing the bell housing means redoing the front pump so trans will need to come out and even with bell housing out it may still be stuck so you will have to further disassemble the transmission
I would continue to try to get it out(assuming its sticking out more that 1"), a new input shaft is about $50, so try direct clamp on exposed splines for a better grip, if you damage them then $50

Found the picture: https://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/...igure4__7_.jpg
Figure 4 is correct
Figure 5 is backwards

 

Yeah the shaft is sticking out a 1/2" past the surface of the bell housing. The part that the shaft sits in measure 1-3/4" out from the end of the shaft to the shoulder of the part that the sleeve of the toqure conveter slides on. Sorry I have no idea some of the names of these part of the trans. I know for certain my trans is a 4R44E but unfortunately I can't seem to find a exact spec on how far the shaft should protrude out. I looked at photos of when I too the motor out and it looks as if the shaft hasn't moved an inch.

 

Yes, its in backwards, should be sticking out no more than 1"

Found the picture: https://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/...igure4__7_.jpg
Figure 4 is correct
Figure 5 is backwards

Stator is the hollow shaft that the input shaft slides into, in the picture they are measuring from the end of the stator to the end of the input shaft, and should be 1" or less

 

Man I really appreciate your help, I'm hoping I can get the input shaft out and check the splins.

 

Update, after looking at the photos you attached I can confirm that the input shaft I in the correct way. I tried all day yesterday with the engine removed for more clearance to remove the input shaft, with no success. I have determined if the front pump is toast I will have to replace it anyway and that would require removing the bell housing itself to gain access to the front pump. I have found complete front pumps for under 200 dollars, so my thought is to take off the bell housing and try to remove the input shaft if this fails Im screwed anyways because the pump is most likely toast as well. Any thoughts, I appreciate your input.

 

If you think the pump was broken in the last attempt to install the trans to engine then yes, might as well inspect it before re-installing transmission

 

So I removed the bell housing and was able to remove the input shaft. I inspected inside where the input shaft splines aline and found no damage. I looked for cracking and metal shavings and found nothing, I also saw no damage to the splines on either end of the input shaft it's self. I was able to get the 3 full step engagement of the torque converter so now the nub of the torque converter is recessed a 1/2" from the end of the bell housing. So now Im having a issue with the torque converter siting so far back in the bell housing that I can get enough threads exposed to put a nut on. Any suggestions on how to get them on?

 

Pull the torque converter farther forward
Once torque converter has been seated properly its aligned, so it will need to come forward a bit to be bolted to the flexplate

 

So I got the torque converter botled to the flexplate and completely reassembled the engine. I made sure to double check everything including checking the cold level on the transmission. The truck starts and runs fine but there is still a loud metal on metal sound coming from the bellhousing. It could be the starter bendex not retracting but I don't known what else it could be. I let the truck idle for a couple of minutes and tried like you said to put it in gear, in this case it was in reverse. Nothing happened no change in rpm not a bump nothing. I decided to shut off the motor to reduce the chance of further distruction and now Im racking my brain to identifiy the sound I heard. Do you have any ideas of what the sound could be? I wondering if thats the sound of the front pump. Im probably going to drop the transmission smand replace the torque conveter and front pump but maybe Im missing something.

 

No, there would be no distinct sound that could be IDed as "that's the pump" or "that's the starter" or "that's the torque converter"
But metal on metal is not a good sound to hear

If there was no engagement in R then pump is not working
You can also look at ATF level on dipstick engine OFF, should be above full
Then look again engine ON, should be between min and max
If it doesn't drop then no pump

 

Okay when I checked it with he engine off and cold the trans level was at the bottom of the hash marks. So I could have had not enough trans fluid in. I read online that if the trans was cold and the engine was off that the fluid was just supposed to register in the cross hatched area on the dipstick. I'm going to remove the inspection plate on the bell housing and look to see if I see anything that doesnt look right. If all is lost I'm just going to drop he transmission and not touch the motor it's a nightmare. At this point I have pulled the motor a total of 3 times. Thank you for your input. Sorry for asking you a million questions.

 

Ever figure out what the noise was? I got a 96 3.0 making the same noise after I pulled engine to rebuild. Only my tq seated fine, and mine will move in reverse and drive as it should. But I got the metal on metal sound and flexplate looks to be touching oil pan or somewhere close to there. I'm confused where the sounds coming from.

 

Would like to add that flexplate to crank "spacer" I also put on the outside of the flexplate. But it matched with paint marker markings from whoever put it together last time so I assume it's suppose to be on the outside of the flexplate not between crank and flexplate.

 

Yeah, I unfortunately am removing the trans to replace the front pump in the transmission. But I have 2 things that have me scratching my head, first, it seems like after mating the motor and trans together the right way making sure the TC was fully seated that is changes the placement of the gear for the starter. So out of frustration, I used some washers stacked up for the 3 bolts holding the starter on to see if that gap created by the washers would move the gear further from the flywheel. I started the motor after installing the washers and the sound seemed to go away but eventually came back. The second idea I had was the placement of the washer that bolts between the crank and the flywheel. When I first reinstalled the motor I had the washer on the outside of the flywheel facing the torque converter, however, I ran into the issue of the flywheel making contact with the oil pan around the rear of the oil pan. Then I decided to put the washer on the motor side between the crank and the flywheel at that point I wasn't rubbing the oil pan however I don't know if that was because I seated the TC and was able to get a clean flush bolt up. When I removed the motor the first time I failed to document the placement of that washer so to this day I'm still not 100% sure of where it should be placed. One more thing and maybe you could confirm this for me if you had this happened, but when I seated the TC in the trans the one key everyone said would confirm was when you rotated the TC that you could hear and feel the TC ribs rubbing on the inside of the bellhousing. To clarify because that sounds very vague, the ribs on the stator side of the TC where the input shaft slides into the TC rub on the inside or back of the bellhousing where the input shaft is, but when the flywheel is bolted to the TC it draws the TC back towards the Flywheel and that rubbing should stop. In my case, I did all that but I feel like the TC is still making contact. I'm so confused, after rebuilding the motor and being super meticulous on the reassembly I am now having issues with weird noises coming from the bellhousing and I'm not sure where those sounds would be coming from exactly.

 

yes when I put the tc in and fully seated it did rub the bellhousing. Was smooth and quiet no rubbing once i bolted it to the flexplate.

 

Okay, I was just curious I also have a question maybe you could help me is there a way to remove one of the return trans coolant lines to see if the front pump is pumping trans fluid? I would prefer to remove one of the lines fire up the truck identify if there is trans fluid coming out or confirm that the front pump is done for. Also, have you been driving your truck and if so how is it driving and are you having the smell of gas still in your oil?

 

I don't have a 100% answer on checking the pump via cooling lines although it makes sense. I doubt it would confirm if the pump is actually pumping the pressure needed I don't know honestly. I'm just a parts replacer lol play Legos with trucks I'm no mechanic. No I'm not driving the truck currently I ran it long enough to find where the noise was coming from and decided to start pulling the trans to get a good look at all of it. I haven't got it out yet but I will this weekend. I have a few guesses to the problem but I'm still confused where what went wrong.
One of my assumptions is I bent the flexplate installing the engine to the trans. im a chevrolet man so im not used to the studs on the tc. So when i first put the engine in although i triple checked that the tc was fully seated i bolted the trans to the block and then realized my tc studs werent inline with the flexplate. (On the probably close to 100 chevrolets I've done they have bolts so this was never a issue I've come across). So I pulled the engine back out aligned tc studs and it went right back together. Maybe that 1/8th inch of force bent the flexplate when the studs weren't lined up? If that's the case it's a perfect bend because the sound is constant.

 

I agree with that assumption as well, I think I did the same thing when I installed the TC and bent the Flywheel. I was so concerned about lining up the motor mounts that I didn't align the studs and holes and had a pickle of time getting them lined up and bolted together. I'm a Ford guy through and through and I have grown a great hatred for engineers through this ordeal, the fact that the sun, moon, and stars have to be perfectly aligned to get these parts to mate perfectly is purely idiotic. I hate that Ford and Chevy both hate each other so much that they have to do the opposite of each other to not copy each other, last time I checked a good idea is a good idea, and maybe some commonality between the brands would be a great idea Chevy has it right with the bolts not studs for the flywheel and Im not ashamed to say it as a Ford guy.
On the idea of the flywheel being bent, I figured I would share my solution for determining the amount of bend with you maybe it might help you as well. I'm going to remove the flywheel and take it into my bench vise, I'm going to use some all thread as an axel and put a nut on all thread and put that nut under the flywheel so the flywheel will sit flush on the nut. I am going to put a washer and another nut on the all thread on top of the flywheel and tighten it down to remove almost all play in the flywheel from up and down movement at the edge where the gear teeth are. Then using my dial gauge and magnetic stand I will rotate the flywheel and check the variation. I guess you could do the same thing with the flywheel still attached to the motor and use the magnetic stand on the back of the motor on a flat surface. The sound I'm getting is not there throughout the full rotation of the motor. It seems to be at a certain degree in rotation which gives the sound a kind of cadence. That's why your assumption on a bent flywheel makes a lot of sense.
The only other thing that comes to mind that terrifies me that could be a possibility is crankshaft end play. I have a suspicion that the thrust bearing was not installed correctly and therefore there is a lateral movement of the crankshaft in rotation. When I installed all of my main bearings though including the thrust bearing I took a crankshaft end play measurement and it came out in spec. So I could be over thinking that issue however until I have confirmed the source for of the issue all possibilities are on the table.