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Old 04-30-2005
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CEL distress.. Help please!

Hey all,

So this truck really is turning out to be a steaming pile of ****! .. And after only ~24k miles!

Ah, now that I've got that off my chest!

A couple afternoons ago I noticed some hesitation and surging while driving around town. Nothing huge, it just felt like it was almost surging or missing. It was most especially noticable at low RPM just cruising. My first thought was the clutch was slipping.. A quick dash off the line at a stoplight pretty well ruled that out. Under heavy throtle and higher RPM she seemed just fine. So it's gotta be the engine, right? Later I noticed the engine idle speed was low. It is well under 1000RPM, sometimes it stumbles and dips under 500RPM on the tach.. although it never stalls (yet).

I started thinking it was bad gas. I had just recently filled up at a different station than I usually do. I often buy my gas at the lowest bidder, w/ very little respect to 'quality' or 'major' brands. My buddy calls it 'gas-ahol'. Maybe I got a bad tank..

Well last night I was awarded w/ a nice CEL. This morning I hooked up the laptop and pulled the codes. It only has one code, and it is:

P2195 - O2 Sensor Signal Stuck Lean

Google doesn't seem to turn up much. Anybody got the full skinny on what I'm facing. 02 sensors are cheap and easy swapouts, right? But even then, I thought the 02 sensor was mostly for emisions. Does this effect engine trim as well? Or worse, is this an indicator of a bigger problem and it's just fouled or set off the 02 sensor..

It just figures that I have to get the truck inspected next month and it won't pass w/ a CEL on.. Seriously guys. Stop me before I trade this turd for a farkin' Honda Civic like everyone else!

Thanks,
-Bubba
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Old 04-30-2005
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have you ever replaced to 02 sensor?
B/C mines been out for a while the 02 sensor is really for the enviroment to help w/ pollution its not a big deal i dont think
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Old 04-30-2005
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Nope. After just 24k miles I didn't think I'd have to! Is this wrong?
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Old 04-30-2005
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just a few weeks ago my EGR valve went bad its another one of those kinda thing so i pulled the hose of and it runs better ive noticed a LITTLE throttle response... so there nothing wrong...do you go offroading?
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Old 04-30-2005
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well im going to see my dad tonight ill ask him hes a mechanic he will know. but dont sell the ranger for a Honda!!!
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Old 04-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRanger93
do you go offroading?
A little. Since joining this site I've learned that my definition of 'off roading' is not quite what it is to everyone. I occasionally drive ol' truckzilla up some mildly muddy logging and unmaintained roads and through some mild ruts and such. Enough to get my old 4x2 stuck, but nothing nearly as hard core as some here.

..And I have not done any of this yet this season. I would very seriously doubt that this is related to abuse or misuse.
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Old 04-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRanger93
have you ever replaced to 02 sensor?
B/C mines been out for a while the 02 sensor is really for the enviroment to help w/ pollution its not a big deal i dont think
Which O2 sensor? Colin has like 3 or 4 of them or something. There is one in each header of the V engine. Then there are some up and downstream from the CAT's. The ones on the headers are the CRITICAL ones and probably one of them since you having driveablitiy problems.

Your air fuel ratio is controlled (well, overridden actually) by those and if they are not right, you can be too rich or too lean. They are essential and replacement, if it's the problem, is mandatory for more than just emissions.

In late model trucks, O2 sensors are the heart of the feedback for fuel ratio control. Don't let it go.
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Old 04-30-2005
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No kidding, four of 'em uh.. The code doesn't seem to elude to wish sensor it is.

So the 02 sensor controls fuel/air mixture?! And a bad 02 sensor could (or would) result in poor engine performance? Excellent.. that's the answer I (kinda) wanted to hear. Sounds like I'll be back in gear one new 02 sensor from now.. Hopefully! ..I'll drop it off w/ ol' Mr dealer man sometime this week.

Thanks John.
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Old 04-30-2005
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Your engine idle should be between 700-800 rpm . Clean your maf, can't hurt
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Old 04-30-2005
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Hey, here's a good one: I can't find that code in the workshop manual, and it's not in the database I compiled for my scanner. Are you quite certain that code is correct? Do you have anything else to scan it with? I'm going to look for it online now.

And off topic: do you have the Alcoa wheels? Someone said they were 15x8 but your sticker on your truck (in the other post) says 15x7.
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Old 04-30-2005
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I thought it was supposed to idle at like ~1200 RPM..

John, yes, the wheels are the Alcoas.. Everyone I've ever talked to has always claimed they were 15x7s. This tag does verify it..

The code and explaination came from the free scan tool software I downloaded from scantool.net. I think they have a forum/listing of many codes. I'll look again..
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Old 04-30-2005
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Check these out:

http://www.alldata.com/techtips/2004/20040726n.html

That's someone that had a similar problem which references P2195, but that's not what they got.

and:

http://www.tradervar.com/Obd_II_code.pdf

The second reference is a complete code list and I'm going to use it as a source if I can to enhance my database for my Palm Scanner.

In the second link above, it says P2195 applies only to Bank 1 -- so that's definitely just one of the two sensors in the headers. I'll figure out which one is bank 1 if you want to do the repair yourself.
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Old 04-30-2005
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Regarding the wheels, I noticed the other day you claimed that 31x10.5x15 tires mounted on 15x7 wheels would cause odd wear. I remember thinking to myself: "Uh, that's odd, Ford mounts such a combo on the LII, and we LII users don't seem to notice any particularly odd wear." I wonder if Cooper just has slightly different specs for their 31x10.5 size than BFG does. BFG gives a recommended wheel width range of 7-9" in their specs for the ATs.. Or maybe the coopers have a slightly softer compound and just show the wear more prolificly..
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Old 04-30-2005
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I'm confused.. Both resources you linked say P2195 is indicating the 02 sensor is stuck lean, just as my scanner did. In your first link it says that the code the Mustang owner got (P1131) is for "a lack of the oxygen sensor #1 on bank #1 switching and indicating a lean condition" and refers to P2195.. I'm not sure what one code refering to another, but I'd speculate that it could be because the codes have similar diagnosis proceedures or fixes, no?!

The more I hear the more I think an 02 sensor just gave up the ghost prematurely and needs to be replaced. If the 02 sensor is that important to the way the engine runs, then surely it could explain my performance issues..
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Old 04-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
I'll figure out which one is bank 1 if you want to do the repair yourself.
Not bad info to have just in case. But this puppie's under warranty, hopefully mr. dealer man will fix it on his dime w/o too much static. Besides, it needs oil, filter and state inspection anyhow..

I seriously think this truck knows when it's time for periodic maintenence. Nearly every time I'm about due for an oil/filter change something breaks! I then say to myself, well, it's going to the dealer anyhow, might as well have them do the oil and filter while they have it..

I'm on to you Ford! Making a vehicle that stays together for 3-5k miles at a time just to get my $30-40 for an oil change! ..You wizards of motor vehicle design!
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Old 04-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHBubba
Regarding the wheels, I noticed the other day you claimed that 31x10.5x15 tires mounted on 15x7 wheels would cause odd wear. I remember thinking to myself: "Uh, that's odd, Ford mounts such a combo on the LII, and we LII users don't seem to notice any particularly odd wear." I wonder if Cooper just has slightly different specs for their 31x10.5 size than BFG does. BFG gives a recommended wheel width range of 7-9" in their specs for the ATs.. Or maybe the coopers have a slightly softer compound and just show the wear more prolificly..
Actually, it could be the stiffer sidewalls. The S/T's and the BFG A/T's are quite different there. BFG's sidewalls are thinner or softer or something.

Also, there's no guarantee that the tire on the Ranger is the same as the ones sold in stores. Auto manufacturers are famous for negotiating different specs on a supposedly standard tire.
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Old 04-30-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHBubba
I'm confused.. Both resources you linked say P2195 is indicating the 02 sensor is stuck lean, just as my scanner did. In your first link it says that the code the Mustang owner got (P1131) is for "a lack of the oxygen sensor #1 on bank #1 switching and indicating a lean condition" and refers to P2195.. I'm not sure what one code refering to another, but I'd speculate that it could be because the codes have similar diagnosis proceedures or fixes, no?!

The more I hear the more I think an 02 sensor just gave up the ghost prematurely and needs to be replaced. If the 02 sensor is that important to the way the engine runs, then surely it could explain my performance issues..
I just threw the Mustang one in there because I thought it was interesting and just in case you had other problems it might be a clue of some kind. Didn't mean to confuse the issue! Codes referring to one another is common in diagnostic charts since different symptoms can be picked up for failures which require the same part to be replaced.

And it does make sense with what you have experienced. Hope you friendly local Ford dealer has you back in spec quickly.
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Old 04-30-2005
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Oxygen sensor codes can be very difficult to diagnose and the driveability concern could either be the cause or the effect.

Generally speaking, if the driveability concern goes away when the CEL comes on, then it is a problem with the sensor itself. If it continues after the CEL, it is probably something else messing up the mixture. The system goes to the open loop fuel table when the CEL says the oxygen sensor reading is improperly and that should improve things if the sensor itself is at fault. It's like switching a switch - in fact, that's exactly what it is.

Bank 1 is the passenger side.

I worked for Honda's emission test lab and dealer tech line for ten years. If you expect to escape OBDII and engine control problems by switching to a Civic, I think you will surely be disappointed.
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Old 05-01-2005
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I am getting ready to go out in the garage and replace one of my o2's.I got a CEL for "bank 2 sensor 1 slow response"I had the "bank 1 sensor 1 slow response" code a few months back and replaced that sensor and it fixed it.I figure 150K is the lifespan for the sensors since they both went bad about the same time.It was about $50 per sensor at employee rate.And yes,bank 1 is passenger side and bank 2 is driver side.I may just replace the one behind the converter before it goes bad.My truck only has 3 sensors total.I have not noticed any difference in driveability with the CEL on or off.I just hate seeing the light.I went 140K miles before I ever saw a CEL for anything so it is nice to know the system works how it is supposed to,at least on my truck.
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Old 05-01-2005
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Thanks guys.

The Honda snip is a crack regarding the (farily substantial) reliability problems I've had w/ my truck. If you have followed my posts over the last two years, you know I get fed up and threaten to trade every year about this time.. when I start having problems. Obviously any vehicle can have problems, regardless of make. But this one does seem to be hexed! The clutch, the t-case problems, and now this CEL, all with less than 24k miles on the clock..

The drivability problems did NOT go away w/ the CEL, in fact it seems to be getting progressivly worse. Yesterday the vehicle would quite nearly stall at idle. I could see how the computer was fighting w/ the engine. It would dive under 500 RPM indicated and nearly stall, then the computer would adjust and the RPM would spring above 1000, then dive back again.

I should add that all of this is somewhat spuratic. Sometimes it does this and other times it holds steady at ~1200 RPM indicated, which is exactly where I thought it should be. Other times the engine settles to a lower idle, and stumbles a bit underway. In all cases the vehicle is still drivable..
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Old 05-02-2005
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Was your a/c on when it was dipping?
a/c on is any vent setting except floor or vent (floor/vent is on too lol)

Rand
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Old 05-02-2005
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No, no AC. I have the so called 'AC mod' and leave the switch in the off position 99.9% of the time. As I've said before, I'm not a fan of, nor do I have much use for AC.

Even still, in the few cases where I have used the AC I did not see the thing nearly stall. Something is clearly wrong..

The only thing I did to the truck (asside from drive it) before it lit the CEL was to replace the fuse for my KC accessory lights. I wasn't even using them when I had the drivability problems. I can't imagine how that would be related..

Where exactly are the O2 sensors located? It is remotely possible that I damaged one while checking the wiring before I replaced the fuse.
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Old 05-02-2005
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No likely. They are in the exhaust manifold. You can usually see them from in the wheelwells if you remove the shields.
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Old 05-02-2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3elz
No likely. They are in the exhaust manifold. You can usually see them from in the wheelwells if you remove the shields.
John, that is correct for your 3.0L but the 4.0L has them in the y-pipe. It's easy to see them from under the truck.
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Old 05-02-2005
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Yup, 'bout what I figured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwenzing
Bank 1 is the passenger side.
This too pretty well makes it official, couldn't have been my tinkering at all. The accessory lighting wiring is on the driver's side..

I betcha it is just a simple case of premature failure. If I ever get off hold I'll have an appointment to have it looked at and hopefully fixed under warranty..
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