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4.0L OHV & SOHC V6 Tech General discussion of 4.0L OHV and SOHC V6 Ford Ranger engines.

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  #26  
Old 09-05-2008
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Originally Posted by 08XLT4x4 View Post
The problem with your logic though is that you seem to imply that all of them at some point will fail. I do not agree with that. If it were true, we would hear a lot more about these aftermarket mods failing or messing peoples trucks up since so many people on here do these mods! You are just as likely to end up with a bad ignition/ coil pack form the factory as you are to get a faulty unit from a reputable aftermarket company.

The performance gains from these things are questionable... i will agree with you there, but to tell everyone that all aftermarket performance mods are unreliable and will mess the truck up is just nonsense!
Where did I say all of them would fail at some point? All electronic components have a failure rate, and all I'm saying is without proper reliability testing (to SAE standards) the failure rate is going to be higher than the OEM
tested components. And because they don't have the proper outgoing tests,
it's possible to get an aftermarket coil with a defect that will destroy the PCM coil drivers!
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  #27  
Old 09-06-2008
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well i read an article on the pack and ended up getting the screamin demon pack and underdog wires. they should be here next week. I went with autolite plugs which is basically motorcraft the brass core plugs so i can gap. I also built my own intake for her using spectre air filter and one of their aluminum flanges that'll bolt up to the MAF flange. I used some abs tubing to turn it down 90 degrees and it fits real well. I will wait to leave it and drive it on my truck untill i put the coil pack on so i can feel any performance increase i get. Thanks for all that helped in my decisions. I need to borrow my friends digi camera to post up that intake for you guys. Unless you can tell me how to upload it with my phone
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  #28  
Old 09-06-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Where did I say all of them would fail at some point? All electronic components have a failure rate, and all I'm saying is without proper reliability testing (to SAE standards) the failure rate is going to be higher than the OEM
tested components. And because they don't have the proper outgoing tests,
it's possible to get an aftermarket coil with a defect that will destroy the PCM coil drivers!
I just said that you seem to imply such.

Anyway, I really like what you have to say about this stuff, dont get me wrong... seriously I've learned a ton by reading your posts, thanks.
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  #29  
Old 09-06-2008
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I have the screamin demon coilpack, and so far so good. I have gapped my plugs to .65 like it said. Its just a nice overall upgrade with other additional bolt-ons.
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  #30  
Old 09-06-2008
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ya thats what i figured. all i need now is the e-fan kit and ud pulleys as well as headers and a power pack. then hopefully when i get my money from the military i'll boost my truck or put the dixon bro's long travel suspension FTW!!
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  #31  
Old 09-08-2008
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Bob is right in one respect. Or I should say that he's *most likely* right in one respect. And that's testing. It's called "DV testing" in the oem realm.

Design Validation testing on the OEM level is done not only in the lab (SAE standards) but they also put the parts in vehicles that go all the way around the world. From northern canada / Alaska down to the deserts.

Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM auto parts realms (in engineering) I definately would say that its unlikely the screamin demon coil is up to OEM reliability standards.

Now having said that. I think something that escapes Bob often times is that cars guys like to experiment and modify. Often times it is indeed a waste of money. Such is many areas of life. I'm sure that if Bobs spending habits were shown to all.. we'd find some areas of waste. Camera equipment maybe?

As far as OEM performance. I'm pushing my stock coil pretty hard with a 50shot of nitrous. It's doing fine so far. Maybe when my truck gets up into the 125k mile range I'll try a screamin demon.

Rich
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2008
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Bob is right in one respect. Or I should say that he's *most likely* right in one respect. And that's testing. It's called "DV testing" in the oem realm.

Design Validation testing on the OEM level is done not only in the lab (SAE standards) but they also put the parts in vehicles that go all the way around the world. From northern canada / Alaska down to the deserts.

Having worked in both the aftermarket and OEM auto parts realms (in engineering) I definately would say that its unlikely the screamin demon coil is up to OEM reliability standards.

Now having said that. I think something that escapes Bob often times is that cars guys like to experiment and modify. Often times it is indeed a waste of money. Such is many areas of life. I'm sure that if Bobs spending habits were shown to all.. we'd find some areas of waste. Camera equipment maybe?

As far as OEM performance. I'm pushing my stock coil pretty hard with a 50shot of nitrous. It's doing fine so far. Maybe when my truck gets up into the 125k mile range I'll try a screamin demon.

Rich

When it comes to electronic components testing (or qualification) there are 2 parts:

1) Functional Characterization

This is when the component is characterized to check how robust the design is. Voltage, temperature, and frequency are the three main parameters that would be varied to see if the component will still operate. Typically, these parameters are varied outside what would be seen in the application.

2) Reliability Testing

This is the one I've previously posted about, and the lack of this testing on the aftermarket products is why the failure rate will be higher. There are three stress tests that are done that also exceed the application conditions
that give an acceleration factor, that tests for long term reliability.

A) HTOL stress: High Temperature Operating Life
In this stress, the components are put in a temperature chamber to heat the components up (beyond the application temps) and are powered up statically, or operated dynamically at voltage levels above the application conditions.

B) TC stress: Thermal Cycle or Thermal Shock
In this stress, the components are placed in a chamber with a cold, and hot region, and the components are constantly cycled from cold to hot, and back to cold. This test checks for differences in materials that will result in conductor cracks, causing an open in a circuit.

C) T&H stress : Temperature & Humidity
In this stress, the components are put in a chamber at elevated temp and humidity. (85 degress C / 85% humidity are industry standard conditions).
Another type of this stress is call "Pressure Pot" which would be like a pressure cooker. This stress looks for defects like packaging cracks, or other
materials issues that would cause failures from corrosion.

The functional characterization and reliability testing conditions are all called out in SAE standards. The same standards exist for the Japanese, and European automotive industries.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2008
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Originally Posted by wydopnthrtl View Post
Now having said that. I think something that escapes Bob often times is that cars guys like to experiment and modify. Often times it is indeed a waste of money. Such is many areas of life. I'm sure that if Bobs spending habits were shown to all.. we'd find some areas of waste. Camera equipment maybe?
Rich, I would define "waste" as paying money for a product, or products that offer no benefit. When it comes to aftermarket ignitions, or coilpacks, there is absolutely no advantage to products like Screamin Demon. Matter of fact, I find this statement about aftermarket ignitions from NGK's website insteresting:

"With this mind, many think the larger the gap the better. In fact, some aftermarket ignition systems boast that their systems can tolerate gaps that are extreme. Be wary of such claims. In most cases, the largest gap you can run may still be smaller than you think."


When it comes to camera equipment, however, I think the big $$$ I have paid for DSLR's and lenses result in the high quality photos I have shown,
so I don't consider these a "waste".
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  #34  
Old 09-09-2008
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I'm not judging your purchases at all Bob.

As far as your claim of "no gains". I'd not *assume* that, as you do.

Back to the topic of a coil pac. Here is what I do to increase the ignition process. And keep in mind the cost is not really of concern to me regarding this... I close the gap to 0.04", use a plug with a cut back ground strap (or at least one with a reduced size), a VERY high quality plug, and index the ground strap away from the face of the piston.

My idle is smoother than stock and I have no problem igniting a ton of fuel when mixed with air and nitrous when using the stock coil.

Often times people think that a larger gap means you'll make more power. Well the gains are very very small as compaired to the low load and cold plug misses you might have. I mean.. on a 4.0L V6 you might gain 2-3hp at best over a stock coil that's in good condition.

Bob your montra is to keep it stock and don't waste money on things that do nothing. I believe that's a false outlook. I take the approach of understanding the science of whats going on in the combustion chamber and adressing it with the highest quality method I can. Sometimes that means aftermarket parts. And sometimes that means stock parts.

Rich
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  #35  
Old 09-21-2008
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Just to antagonize all these replies, just send an email to each manufacturer and ask how they test their product against OEM products, especially reliability. Donít expect a reply overnight but id bet if the company is good they would offer specs or testing procedures for their product.
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  #36  
Old 09-21-2008
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just my oppinion, before you all start talkin **it about stuff you have idea about

Last edited by jimehat112; 09-21-2008 at 10:20 PM.
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  #37  
Old 09-22-2008
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well my OEM coil did fail and i replaced it with the screamin demon because it was cheaper... the truck runs smoother than any 3.0 i have ever seen now too
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  #38  
Old 09-22-2008
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Originally Posted by jimehat112 View Post
Just to antagonize all these replies, just send an email to each manufacturer and ask how they test their product against OEM products, especially reliability. Donít expect a reply overnight but id bet if the company is good they would offer specs or testing procedures for their product.
Been there, done that! I specifically asked Performance Distributers, and MSD if the did the SAE recommended reliability testing on electrical components, and they never responded!
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  #39  
Old 09-22-2008
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Originally Posted by Takeda View Post
Been there, done that! I specifically asked Performance Distributers, and MSD if the did the SAE recommended reliability testing on electrical components, and they never responded!
IMO (and experience) aftermarket parts suppliers seldom test to the same extremes as do the OEMs.

Now, that doesn't mean that they won't perform the same or even better. It just means that they don't validate as does the OEM suppliers.

Rich
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  #40  
Old 09-30-2008
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Originally Posted by jimehat112 View Post
Just to antagonize all these replies, just send an email to each manufacturer and ask how they test their product against OEM products, especially reliability. Donít expect a reply overnight but id bet if the company is good they would offer specs or testing procedures for their product.

I guess your got the same replies (NOT) that I received!


The only companies that will answer are the companies making the OEM electrical components, that comply to the SAE testing standards.
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  #41  
Old 10-01-2008
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Well, good or bad I bought a SD to improve spark "I thought" anyway I will let you guy's know if it fails.
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