Thoughts on Synthetic oil?
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Likes: 7
From: Cincinnati, OH
It's amazing that people spend thousands of dollars on their truck, and then use cheap oil & filters to save a few pennies. I changed my oil at 500 miles on the odometer to Mobil 1 w/ Mobil 1 filter, also changed power steering fluid to Mobil 1 ATF (Wonder how many people change their power steering fluid?) , gearbox change is next. (Note: I change my engine oil on 10,000 mile intervals).
Former Ford Parts Monkey
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,107
Likes: 56
From: PA
thats how we do it at work...doesnt get all of the old fluid but it gets the vast majority of it
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From: Fayetteville, GA
Thats how I do it, but I do it every other engine oil change.
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: New Milford, CT
I run synthetic oil in all of my power equipment. My recommendation is break an engine first using conventional oil and then make the switch to synthetic. BMW motorcycles, for instance (the old R1100's for instance), have hardened cylinder sleeves. Synthetic oil is so slippery that the rings cannot 'seat' themselves in the cylinder. If synthetic oil is used in the BMW engine before the break in period is reached it'll reach and ruin the catalytic converter. In this particular engine break in isn't usually completed until you reach the 20,000 mile mark. To the best of my knowledge most car makers don't use the same hardening process. (The way that you know that the BMW engine has broken in properly is that oil consumption drops to near 0 between changes,)
In my cars I tend to run whatever oil that they come with from the factory initially. Then, at the first oil change, I switch to synthetic in whatever weight is called for in the manual. It's especially important to run full synthetic in my turbo charged engines and to change the oil at or below the recommended periods primarily because conventional oils tend to 'coke' and produce sludge that 'eats' engines.
My brother races at Bonneville every year, he won't run synthetic oil in his engines because they don't break in properly.
An interesting fact: much of the lower weight oil, (0W and 5W) is used in modern engines because they flow more easily than, say 20W. In doing so, they increase mileage slightly. This helps the automakers rise up to the government imposed CAFE standards. It'll be interesting to see what effect, if any, the lower weight oil has on engine longevity. I drive about 60,000 miles per year and I started using synthetic oil in the mid-90's. My gasoline mileage increased a bit. At the current $3.09/gallon cost, that increase may be worth making the change.
All of this may be academic, though, because, in the old days, I ran conventional oil. I had an S-10 Jimmy that I ran for 384,000 miles without a hitch. I also ran it in a 300 CI Ford '6'. When I took the valve cover off at 100,000 miles the valve train still looked new. All changes were done at 3000 miles.
Another interesting fact: a number of years ago the Marine Corps found that more damage resulted to their vehicles from 'screwed up' oil changes than from lack of oil changes. In other words, stripped drain plugs, doubling up on oil filter gaskets, & etc. caused more damage than the frequency of the changes.
It seems to me that the oil and filter should be changed religiously regardless of the type that you use and you shouldn't beat the hell out of the engine. Simple as that.
In my cars I tend to run whatever oil that they come with from the factory initially. Then, at the first oil change, I switch to synthetic in whatever weight is called for in the manual. It's especially important to run full synthetic in my turbo charged engines and to change the oil at or below the recommended periods primarily because conventional oils tend to 'coke' and produce sludge that 'eats' engines.
My brother races at Bonneville every year, he won't run synthetic oil in his engines because they don't break in properly.
An interesting fact: much of the lower weight oil, (0W and 5W) is used in modern engines because they flow more easily than, say 20W. In doing so, they increase mileage slightly. This helps the automakers rise up to the government imposed CAFE standards. It'll be interesting to see what effect, if any, the lower weight oil has on engine longevity. I drive about 60,000 miles per year and I started using synthetic oil in the mid-90's. My gasoline mileage increased a bit. At the current $3.09/gallon cost, that increase may be worth making the change.
All of this may be academic, though, because, in the old days, I ran conventional oil. I had an S-10 Jimmy that I ran for 384,000 miles without a hitch. I also ran it in a 300 CI Ford '6'. When I took the valve cover off at 100,000 miles the valve train still looked new. All changes were done at 3000 miles.
Another interesting fact: a number of years ago the Marine Corps found that more damage resulted to their vehicles from 'screwed up' oil changes than from lack of oil changes. In other words, stripped drain plugs, doubling up on oil filter gaskets, & etc. caused more damage than the frequency of the changes.
It seems to me that the oil and filter should be changed religiously regardless of the type that you use and you shouldn't beat the hell out of the engine. Simple as that.
Level III Supporter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,852
Likes: 3
From: Wisconsin
I agree. If I was running synthetics out to 10k changes I would definitely do an oil analysis. 5K on a blend is what I'll stick to. Although I do believe you can beat on your engine. Get it good and hot, I've never had one give up yet.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster, CA
Supertech is the only thing I buy at walmart because the price is so cheap they can't be making any money on it, 5 quarts for 17.00 dollars here in CA. I just wish walmart sold a better filter.
My question is why does the price of syn. go up when the price of a barrel of oil goes up. There is no petroleum products in it.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster, CA
I run synthetic oil in all of my power equipment. My recommendation is break an engine first using conventional oil and then make the switch to synthetic. BMW motorcycles, for instance (the old R1100's for instance), have hardened cylinder sleeves. Synthetic oil is so slippery that the rings cannot 'seat' themselves in the cylinder. If synthetic oil is used in the BMW engine before the break in period is reached it'll reach and ruin the catalytic converter. In this particular engine break in isn't usually completed until you reach the 20,000 mile mark. To the best of my knowledge most car makers don't use the same hardening process. (The way that you know that the BMW engine has broken in properly is that oil consumption drops to near 0 between changes,)
In my cars I tend to run whatever oil that they come with from the factory initially. Then, at the first oil change, I switch to synthetic in whatever weight is called for in the manual. It's especially important to run full synthetic in my turbo charged engines and to change the oil at or below the recommended periods primarily because conventional oils tend to 'coke' and produce sludge that 'eats' engines.
My brother races at Bonneville every year, he won't run synthetic oil in his engines because they don't break in properly.
An interesting fact: much of the lower weight oil, (0W and 5W) is used in modern engines because they flow more easily than, say 20W. In doing so, they increase mileage slightly. This helps the automakers rise up to the government imposed CAFE standards. It'll be interesting to see what effect, if any, the lower weight oil has on engine longevity. I drive about 60,000 miles per year and I started using synthetic oil in the mid-90's. My gasoline mileage increased a bit. At the current $3.09/gallon cost, that increase may be worth making the change.
All of this may be academic, though, because, in the old days, I ran conventional oil. I had an S-10 Jimmy that I ran for 384,000 miles without a hitch. I also ran it in a 300 CI Ford '6'. When I took the valve cover off at 100,000 miles the valve train still looked new. All changes were done at 3000 miles.
Another interesting fact: a number of years ago the Marine Corps found that more damage resulted to their vehicles from 'screwed up' oil changes than from lack of oil changes. In other words, stripped drain plugs, doubling up on oil filter gaskets, & etc. caused more damage than the frequency of the changes.
It seems to me that the oil and filter should be changed religiously regardless of the type that you use and you shouldn't beat the hell out of the engine. Simple as that.
In my cars I tend to run whatever oil that they come with from the factory initially. Then, at the first oil change, I switch to synthetic in whatever weight is called for in the manual. It's especially important to run full synthetic in my turbo charged engines and to change the oil at or below the recommended periods primarily because conventional oils tend to 'coke' and produce sludge that 'eats' engines.
My brother races at Bonneville every year, he won't run synthetic oil in his engines because they don't break in properly.
An interesting fact: much of the lower weight oil, (0W and 5W) is used in modern engines because they flow more easily than, say 20W. In doing so, they increase mileage slightly. This helps the automakers rise up to the government imposed CAFE standards. It'll be interesting to see what effect, if any, the lower weight oil has on engine longevity. I drive about 60,000 miles per year and I started using synthetic oil in the mid-90's. My gasoline mileage increased a bit. At the current $3.09/gallon cost, that increase may be worth making the change.
All of this may be academic, though, because, in the old days, I ran conventional oil. I had an S-10 Jimmy that I ran for 384,000 miles without a hitch. I also ran it in a 300 CI Ford '6'. When I took the valve cover off at 100,000 miles the valve train still looked new. All changes were done at 3000 miles.
Another interesting fact: a number of years ago the Marine Corps found that more damage resulted to their vehicles from 'screwed up' oil changes than from lack of oil changes. In other words, stripped drain plugs, doubling up on oil filter gaskets, & etc. caused more damage than the frequency of the changes.
It seems to me that the oil and filter should be changed religiously regardless of the type that you use and you shouldn't beat the hell out of the engine. Simple as that.
I too run several turbo engines and because of temperatures created by the extra cylinder pressures coking will happen much quicker with conventional oils. I generally run a 5w-30 syn and change at 3000 miles also. I have over 150,000 miles on my mazda mx5 running at the minimum of 17 lbs. of boost up to 25 lbs. depending on where I am driving. Inside of motor is like new and after tear down at 281,000 miles for turbo install couldn't see any visible wear on crank or rod bearings, no cylinder wear or lip. All but the break in was with syn.
Excellent write up DD430!
Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: PA
i switched my truck over to mobile one around 80k miles, ive got 106 on it now and change it about every 6,000 and it still runs like a top. I use the truck for work and load it down regularly and it still doesn't use any oil. i would recommend switching to syn to anyone.
i switched my truck over to mobile one around 80k miles, ive got 106 on it now and change it about every 6,000 and it still runs like a top. I use the truck for work and load it down regularly and it still doesn't use any oil. i would recommend switching to syn to anyone.
Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
From: Lake Elsinore CA
I don't mean to but in but that's pretty much what my post earlier stated. If you can find a synthetic blend, even online, I do that at least one time before switching to synthetic. If not, then go straight to synthetic but change it at 3000 miles. Do that twice and you should be fine.
Ok I will take that into consideration. I def don't want to mess up any moving parts in the engine since I am going to need this truck for another 4 years or so. If I did find a synthetic blend first would I do that for 3000 miles then go to synthetic and run it for 3000 miles once then go to a normal oil changing routine? Or would I need to run the blend for 3000, and run full synthetic for 3000 miles twice? Thanks for the input!
I switched all my fluids to synthetic at 125k. For my oil (I've only changed it twice so far) I am doing half-syn blend for the first two and I will be switching to full synthetic after. So next oil change I am fuel synthetic.
I do all Motorcraft for my filters. Oil, fuel, and air.
I do all Valvoline for my fluids.
I recommend doing the PS pump on Rangers every 10-20k. When I did mine I removed the PS return line and jacked up the front end turned the wheel back and forth and had my dad dump Advanced Auto crap Mecron ATF in there so it didn't run dry. When all the black and red sludge, yes sludge, not fluid, drained out I got the crap ATF out and filled it back up with Valvoline High Mileage Synthetic Mecron ATF. The same stuff in my tranny. And a bottle of Lucas power steering stop leak of course. The ring around the pulley for the pump was wet with fluid :(
I do all Motorcraft for my filters. Oil, fuel, and air.
I do all Valvoline for my fluids.
I recommend doing the PS pump on Rangers every 10-20k. When I did mine I removed the PS return line and jacked up the front end turned the wheel back and forth and had my dad dump Advanced Auto crap Mecron ATF in there so it didn't run dry. When all the black and red sludge, yes sludge, not fluid, drained out I got the crap ATF out and filled it back up with Valvoline High Mileage Synthetic Mecron ATF. The same stuff in my tranny. And a bottle of Lucas power steering stop leak of course. The ring around the pulley for the pump was wet with fluid :(
Well after much asking and researching. I think I will just stay with coventional oil b/c of the years and mileage my truck has on it (105K). But maybe in the future I will switch to a high mileage conventional oil. As of now, I have never had any leaks, seals go bad, etc.
^good point on the recommendation of changing PS. I def need to get on to that. I don't think I have changed the power steering fluid in like 50K...that's prob not good lol.
^good point on the recommendation of changing PS. I def need to get on to that. I don't think I have changed the power steering fluid in like 50K...that's prob not good lol.
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
From: Lancaster, CA
Jess, you guys don't get it. Synthetic oils are far superior in every way over conventionial oils. Blends are just that a blend of dino oil and synthetic so mixing is done at the manufacture. This pretty much proves you don't need to worry about mixing it in your motor.
The big advantage of syn is its ability to handle heat way beyond dino oil.
Here are a couple articles you can read that will dispel the myths made by uneducated people, or self proclaimed experts.
Motorcycle Oil | Ten Myths About Synthetic Lubrication - WhyBike.com
Oil Myths and Facts
Interview: Synthetic Oil Myth - LoveToKnow Cars
Synthetic Oil
This has been beat to death all over the internet, you would think we would all have figured this out by now. Syn. oil is far superior to many dino oils in the short term and every dino oil in the long term.
The big advantage of syn is its ability to handle heat way beyond dino oil.
Here are a couple articles you can read that will dispel the myths made by uneducated people, or self proclaimed experts.
Motorcycle Oil | Ten Myths About Synthetic Lubrication - WhyBike.com
Oil Myths and Facts
Interview: Synthetic Oil Myth - LoveToKnow Cars
Synthetic Oil
This has been beat to death all over the internet, you would think we would all have figured this out by now. Syn. oil is far superior to many dino oils in the short term and every dino oil in the long term.
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 854
Likes: 1
From: Madison, Ohio
I found this informative.. Here is a quote from popular mechanics..
Premium Conventional Oil: This is the standard new-car oil. All leading brands have one for service level SL, available in several viscosities. The carmakers usually specify a 5W-20 or 5W-30 oil, particularly for lower temperatures, with a 10W-30 oil as optional, particularly for higher ambient temperatures. These three ratings cover just about every light-duty vehicle on the road. Even more important, though, is changing the oil and filter regularly. A 4000 miles/4 months interval is good practice. The absolute minimum is twice a year. If your car has an electronic oil-change indicator on the instrument cluster, don't exceed its warning.
Full Synthetic Oil: The oils made for high-tech engines, whether in a Chevy Corvette or Mercedes-Benz, are full synthetics. If these oils pass stringent special tests (indicated by their labeling), it means they have superior, longer-lasting performance in all the critical areas, from viscosity index to protection against deposits. They flow better at low temperatures and maintain peak lubricity at high temperatures. So why shouldn't everyone use them? Answer: These oils are expensive and not every engine needs them. In fact, there may be some features that your car's engine needs that the synthetics don't have. Again, follow your owner's manual.
Synthetic Blend Oil: These have a dose of synthetic oil mixed with organic oil, and overall are formulated to provide protection for somewhat heavier loads and high temperatures. This generally means they're less volatile, so they evaporate far less, which reduces oil loss (and increases fuel economy). They're popular with drivers of pickups/SUVs who want the high-load protection. And they're a lot less expensive than full synthetics, maybe just pennies more than a premium conventional oil.
Higher Mileage Oil: Today's vehicles last longer, and if you like the idea of paying off the car and running the mileage well into six figures, you have another oil choice, those formulated for higher-mileage vehicles. Almost two-thirds of the vehicles on the road have more than 75,000 miles on the odometer. So the oil refiners have identified this as an area of customer interest, and have new oils they're recommending for these vehicles.
When your car or light truck/SUV is somewhat older and has considerably more mileage, you may notice a few oil stains on the garage floor. It's about this time that you need to add a quart more often than when the vehicle was new. Crankshaft seals may have hardened and lost their flexibility, so they leak (particularly at low temperatures) and may crack. The higher-mileage oils are formulated with seal conditioners that flow into the pores of the seals to restore their shape and increase their flexibility. In most cases, rubber seals are designed to swell just enough to stop leaks. But the oil refiners pick their "reswelling" ingredients carefully. Valvoline showed us the performance data of one good seal conditioner that swelled most seal materials, but actually reduced swelling of one type that tended to swell excessively from the ingredients found in some other engine oils.
You also may have noticed some loss of performance and engine smoothness as a result of engine wear on your higher-mileage vehicle. These higher-mileage oils also have somewhat higher viscosities. (Even if the numbers on the container don't indicate it, there's a fairly wide range for each viscosity rating and the higher-mileage oils sit at the top of each range.) They also may have more viscosity-index improvers in them. The result? They seal piston-to-cylinder clearances better, and won't squeeze out as readily from the larger engine bearing clearances. They also may have a higher dose of antiwear additives to try to slow the wear process.
If you have an older vehicle, all of these features may mean more to you than what you might get from a full synthetic, and at a fraction the price.
Full Synthetic Oil: The oils made for high-tech engines, whether in a Chevy Corvette or Mercedes-Benz, are full synthetics. If these oils pass stringent special tests (indicated by their labeling), it means they have superior, longer-lasting performance in all the critical areas, from viscosity index to protection against deposits. They flow better at low temperatures and maintain peak lubricity at high temperatures. So why shouldn't everyone use them? Answer: These oils are expensive and not every engine needs them. In fact, there may be some features that your car's engine needs that the synthetics don't have. Again, follow your owner's manual.
Synthetic Blend Oil: These have a dose of synthetic oil mixed with organic oil, and overall are formulated to provide protection for somewhat heavier loads and high temperatures. This generally means they're less volatile, so they evaporate far less, which reduces oil loss (and increases fuel economy). They're popular with drivers of pickups/SUVs who want the high-load protection. And they're a lot less expensive than full synthetics, maybe just pennies more than a premium conventional oil.
Higher Mileage Oil: Today's vehicles last longer, and if you like the idea of paying off the car and running the mileage well into six figures, you have another oil choice, those formulated for higher-mileage vehicles. Almost two-thirds of the vehicles on the road have more than 75,000 miles on the odometer. So the oil refiners have identified this as an area of customer interest, and have new oils they're recommending for these vehicles.
When your car or light truck/SUV is somewhat older and has considerably more mileage, you may notice a few oil stains on the garage floor. It's about this time that you need to add a quart more often than when the vehicle was new. Crankshaft seals may have hardened and lost their flexibility, so they leak (particularly at low temperatures) and may crack. The higher-mileage oils are formulated with seal conditioners that flow into the pores of the seals to restore their shape and increase their flexibility. In most cases, rubber seals are designed to swell just enough to stop leaks. But the oil refiners pick their "reswelling" ingredients carefully. Valvoline showed us the performance data of one good seal conditioner that swelled most seal materials, but actually reduced swelling of one type that tended to swell excessively from the ingredients found in some other engine oils.
You also may have noticed some loss of performance and engine smoothness as a result of engine wear on your higher-mileage vehicle. These higher-mileage oils also have somewhat higher viscosities. (Even if the numbers on the container don't indicate it, there's a fairly wide range for each viscosity rating and the higher-mileage oils sit at the top of each range.) They also may have more viscosity-index improvers in them. The result? They seal piston-to-cylinder clearances better, and won't squeeze out as readily from the larger engine bearing clearances. They also may have a higher dose of antiwear additives to try to slow the wear process.
If you have an older vehicle, all of these features may mean more to you than what you might get from a full synthetic, and at a fraction the price.
Well after much asking and researching. I think I will just stay with coventional oil b/c of the years and mileage my truck has on it (105K). But maybe in the future I will switch to a high mileage conventional oil. As of now, I have never had any leaks, seals go bad, etc.
^good point on the recommendation of changing PS. I def need to get on to that. I don't think I have changed the power steering fluid in like 50K...that's prob not good lol.
^good point on the recommendation of changing PS. I def need to get on to that. I don't think I have changed the power steering fluid in like 50K...that's prob not good lol.
mobil one with mobil one filter. the valve train is more quite. my truck is odd when i go to change it at 5k it looks clean like i just put it in? i have no clue why its just tinted a little but still clear
