2000 ranger 3.0 to 5.0 swap q's
#1
2000 ranger 3.0 to 5.0 swap q's
Have done a ton of research but still always manage to run in to things that were unforeseen. Registration is up on the 20th so I'm trying to get this all figured out pretty quickly...truck is a 2wd coil spring '00 3.0l v6 flex. 5.0 is from a 00 explorer, got the ecu, 4r70w + mount, just changed motor mounts to the 2wd 4.0l kind (as recommended by everyone who makes those swap plates like Ricks Rangers on EBay, etc) yet my mounts still aren't lining up with the holes in the plates. I'm wondering if the 3.0l 2wd trucks have a engine mount spacer welded to the frame and the 4.0l's do not...I'll attach two pictures of where I'm at right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I gotta get the driveshaft measured for and these motor mounts have been throwing me for a loop. First I was told the plates worked with the stock 3.0 mounts. Now if the truck was a 3.0, put 4.0 (part # 2853 right?) mounts and it'll bolt right up. Let me figure out how to get pictures on here but at least this will be up there. Either way my motor mount studs are, when one side is in the right spot, other side is about a half inch off, meaning the studs are further towards the block than what the motor mount plates are cut for.
I gotta get the driveshaft measured for and these motor mounts have been throwing me for a loop. First I was told the plates worked with the stock 3.0 mounts. Now if the truck was a 3.0, put 4.0 (part # 2853 right?) mounts and it'll bolt right up. Let me figure out how to get pictures on here but at least this will be up there. Either way my motor mount studs are, when one side is in the right spot, other side is about a half inch off, meaning the studs are further towards the block than what the motor mount plates are cut for.
#3
Whats the best way to get that spacer out? Just cut it? I saw there's like a plug in the frame which is what made me think that had to come out. It also seems like if I just set the passenger side mount in the holes that the 00 explorer oil pan will hit or rest on the steering rack. Sound normal?
Last edited by D-Rod; 03-11-2017 at 10:54 AM.
#4
#5
Hey all. Got the swap finished up and Tried to start last night. Won't start via key, but can hit starter with a jumper wire and it fires right up. After some run time I got these codes:
P0113 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input)
P1747 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1747 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid A- Short Circuit)
P0755 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0755 Shift Solenoid B Malfunction)
P0708 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0708 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit High Input)
P0743 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0743 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Electrical)
P0713 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0713 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit High Input)
P1000
P1270 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1270 Engine RPM Or Speed Limiter Reached)
P1702 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1702 TRS Circuit Intermittent Malfunction)
Noticed when I put the trans in that the back passenger side connector had fluid in it. Think I forgot to clear it out before connecting, is this what's causing all the issues? Motor isn't running correctly either, think it's just the PCM erroring since there's so many issues.
P0113 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0113 Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input)
P1747 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1747 Electronic Pressure Control Solenoid A- Short Circuit)
P0755 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0755 Shift Solenoid B Malfunction)
P0708 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0708 Transmission Range Sensor Circuit High Input)
P0743 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0743 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit Electrical)
P0713 (4R70W Code (DTC) P0713 Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Circuit High Input)
P1000
P1270 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1270 Engine RPM Or Speed Limiter Reached)
P1702 (4R70W Code (DTC) P1702 TRS Circuit Intermittent Malfunction)
Noticed when I put the trans in that the back passenger side connector had fluid in it. Think I forgot to clear it out before connecting, is this what's causing all the issues? Motor isn't running correctly either, think it's just the PCM erroring since there's so many issues.
#6
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
P07xx or P17xx are transmission codes
So yes, check the trans multi-wire connector, those codes are all related to internal solenoid circuits.
2000 automatic trans setup will use a DTR(digital transmission range) sensor.
When you turn the key to START 12volts travels out to the DTR thru a 7.5amp fuse in cab fuse box, if trans is in Park or Neutral then that 12volts passes thru it to the Starter Relay in the engines fuse box.
Starter Relay then closes and sends 12volts(from another fuse) to the starter's motor solenoid/relay
If your 2000 Ranger was a manual then there would be a Clutch switch(no DTR), which would get that 12volts from ignition switch, clutch pedal in Passes 12v to starter relay
If it was an automatic then there would be a Clutch pedal By-pass inserted into the clutch pedal switch connector, make sure it is still there.
The starter relay in the fuse box was added for security, the PATS setup would Ground this relay if correct key was in the ignition, so the 12v from the DTR could close this relay.
No Ground means no starter motor.
PATS also disabled fuel injectors and fuel pump, and since the engine starts and runs PATS is not disabling the system so starter relay should be working
Battery(12volts)-----ignition switch(START)--(7.5amp fuse)---clutch switch------DTR sensor-------starter relay----Ground(Computer)
50amp fuse---------starter relay------------starter motor---Ground
here is the wiring diagram for starting circuit, rangers and explorers used same circuit
So yes, check the trans multi-wire connector, those codes are all related to internal solenoid circuits.
2000 automatic trans setup will use a DTR(digital transmission range) sensor.
When you turn the key to START 12volts travels out to the DTR thru a 7.5amp fuse in cab fuse box, if trans is in Park or Neutral then that 12volts passes thru it to the Starter Relay in the engines fuse box.
Starter Relay then closes and sends 12volts(from another fuse) to the starter's motor solenoid/relay
If your 2000 Ranger was a manual then there would be a Clutch switch(no DTR), which would get that 12volts from ignition switch, clutch pedal in Passes 12v to starter relay
If it was an automatic then there would be a Clutch pedal By-pass inserted into the clutch pedal switch connector, make sure it is still there.
The starter relay in the fuse box was added for security, the PATS setup would Ground this relay if correct key was in the ignition, so the 12v from the DTR could close this relay.
No Ground means no starter motor.
PATS also disabled fuel injectors and fuel pump, and since the engine starts and runs PATS is not disabling the system so starter relay should be working
Battery(12volts)-----ignition switch(START)--(7.5amp fuse)---clutch switch------DTR sensor-------starter relay----Ground(Computer)
50amp fuse---------starter relay------------starter motor---Ground
here is the wiring diagram for starting circuit, rangers and explorers used same circuit
Last edited by RonD; 03-22-2017 at 10:37 AM.
#7
Turns out the trans isn't compatible with a 2000 Ecu. Got them sending a replacement of the right year and exchanging it with this one. Turns out this is a 96 4r70w. Before buying it I even called them and told them I had an '00 motor and needed it to be as close to 00 as possible. Geez. What a hassle. Got a bandaid tune from the programmer today (using a SCT Livewire TS+) and got out of limp mode, but that tune stopped working after I got into the gas a few times. Seeing what else he can do in the morning. Looks like all I'll be waiting on is the transmission and driveline.
#8
Apologies for the double post but ran into another issue somewhat. I passed the egr system on the intake manifold. Got rid of dpfe also. Called off the vacuum line for the egr unit, but still running vacuum line and intake line to the body of the truck where those egr systems are. With my tuner I can see that it's cutting 15% fuel to one side and adding 30% to the other. Is this because of that egr stuff? Now that I've narrowed some other things down, it's throwing a p1401 and 1409 code for the egr stuff. Not sure what to make of it cutting fuel to one side and adding it to the other though. Running a 255l/ph pump btw, still stock tank internals for regulation and all of that.
#9
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
If computer has EGR software inside then it needs to "see" the DPFE sensor connected, and changing pressure at the DPFE when computer actives the EGR system.
Just FYI, EGR systems make engines run better if computer is programmed for it.
In the old days with carbs and manually adjustable spark timing you could squeeze a bit more power out by running higher octane fuel and adjust carb and spark for that.
But with the computer setup you can't so you just loose power(and MPG) if EGR system is off line, computer must run spark timing too far advanced to reduce possibility of pinging/knocking on Regular gas.
No, absence of EGR/DPFE signal won't cause the unbalanced fuel trim issue
Because I just ran into this, check that your upstream O2 sensors are not Reversed.
Shop that did my clutch had to disconnect both upstream O2 sensor, to pull trans back.
When they reconnected them they reversed them, lol.
So I had Rich on one bank and Lean on the other, and running poorly
O2 sensor connectors are all the same there is no left or right
And most have 3 wires that are the same color, only 1 wire is different
On 2000 Explorer V8:
Passenger side O2 Grey/light blue stripe wire
Drivers side O2 Red/Black stripe wire
Should apply to most years
Just FYI, EGR systems make engines run better if computer is programmed for it.
In the old days with carbs and manually adjustable spark timing you could squeeze a bit more power out by running higher octane fuel and adjust carb and spark for that.
But with the computer setup you can't so you just loose power(and MPG) if EGR system is off line, computer must run spark timing too far advanced to reduce possibility of pinging/knocking on Regular gas.
No, absence of EGR/DPFE signal won't cause the unbalanced fuel trim issue
Because I just ran into this, check that your upstream O2 sensors are not Reversed.
Shop that did my clutch had to disconnect both upstream O2 sensor, to pull trans back.
When they reconnected them they reversed them, lol.
So I had Rich on one bank and Lean on the other, and running poorly
O2 sensor connectors are all the same there is no left or right
And most have 3 wires that are the same color, only 1 wire is different
On 2000 Explorer V8:
Passenger side O2 Grey/light blue stripe wire
Drivers side O2 Red/Black stripe wire
Should apply to most years
#10
So I should keep the egr system even though the cam is pretty gnarly and have alum heads and all that? I was always told you loose power through that system, interesting to hear otherwise. I got the codes all taken care of by another flash for the ecu, also tonight both fuel trim banks started fluctuating. 1 would go between 1.00 and 1.05, 2 would go between 1.20 and 1.25 (trying to stay at 1200rpm to avoid fluctuation). Long term 1 and 2 were identical, and hung around .90 solid when staying at 1200rpm. Got video of most of the vitals it if that would help anything. Getting two maf counts, both different by 20 or 30, one being just "maf counts" and one being maf counts (03-04 cobra). Seem to change at different rates sometimes as well. Not sure if something like that would throw off the ecu or what.
passenger side o2 wire looks to be correct. Which is the upstream connector for the passenger side on the trans harness?
passenger side o2 wire looks to be correct. Which is the upstream connector for the passenger side on the trans harness?
#11
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
You would loose power by deleting EGR on stock engine when you can't change spark timing.
Adding exhaust gases to intake when engine is under load slows the "explosion" in the cylinders, this reduces the excess heat that occurs under load.
When cylinder temp gets too high the NOX emissions(toxic gas) spikes very high, this is why the EGR system was added, to lower NOX emissions.
A by product of lowering the cylinder temps under load is that Regular gasoline(87 octane) won't self-ignite(ping/knock) as cylinder temps climb up(octane is a self ignition temp rating).
Without EGR system the spark timing had to be advanced under load, taking away power or you have to add a Knock Sensor to advance spark timing when knocking was detected, taking away power.
By using an EGR system the spark timing could be less advanced without pinging on 87 octane so more power.
Since you are able to set spark timing then you can change it for use with or without EGR system.
yes, going for best power output I would lose the EGR system, on stock daily driver I would keep it.
Passenger side O2 Grey/light blue stripe wire
Adding exhaust gases to intake when engine is under load slows the "explosion" in the cylinders, this reduces the excess heat that occurs under load.
When cylinder temp gets too high the NOX emissions(toxic gas) spikes very high, this is why the EGR system was added, to lower NOX emissions.
A by product of lowering the cylinder temps under load is that Regular gasoline(87 octane) won't self-ignite(ping/knock) as cylinder temps climb up(octane is a self ignition temp rating).
Without EGR system the spark timing had to be advanced under load, taking away power or you have to add a Knock Sensor to advance spark timing when knocking was detected, taking away power.
By using an EGR system the spark timing could be less advanced without pinging on 87 octane so more power.
Since you are able to set spark timing then you can change it for use with or without EGR system.
yes, going for best power output I would lose the EGR system, on stock daily driver I would keep it.
Passenger side O2 Grey/light blue stripe wire
#12
Got most codes taken care of. Don't think there's a vacuum leak; still have searching idle problem. TPS sensor possibly? Had the first fuel trim bank working for a bit then it went back to .7. Was reading 1.0-1.10, same as fuel trim bank 2. What else can I check? Seems like there'd be some change in sound with the fuel trim changing to .7, but there's no change in sound that I can hear. Have always had extremely sensitive hearing to things like that. Only getting P0708 and p1000 right now. The latter is because of flashing the ecu to new settings obviously. Where to go from here? Can I run widebands with the explorer ecu? Or would I have to have a stand alone system and plumb then in also? Should I try the stock MAF and see if the tuner can adjust that for 30# injectors?
Last edited by D-Rod; 03-25-2017 at 10:39 PM.
#13
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
No on the wide-band O2s,
O2s are either .1-.9 volt, the standard/narrow-band
or
0-5volts, wide-band
Computer(ecu, pcm) is programmed for one kind, so wouldn't "understand" other kind
Wide-band is definitely a better O2 setup to use, 1 volt range or 5volt range, lol, wider range will always be better, more precise
Wandering idle is normal on first startup, if computer has lost power or been reset.
Idle is a "learned" parameter in the computers memory.
It can take 2 or 3 drive cycles to get a stable idle.
One Drive cycle is a heat up and cool down, i.e. engine gets up to operating temp/closed loop and then a cool down, ECT sensor shows below 130degF with key on engine off.
I don't recognize your fuel trim numbers?
O2 voltage should rapidly change between .3 and .7 when cruising along, at idle above .5
Idle is always Rich to prevent overheating
Fuel trims are usually + or - numbers
- 4 would be Rich, computer is reducing fuel because O2 is showing voltage above .8, so Rich exhaust, not enough oxygen
+ 4 would be Lean, computer is adding fuel because O2 is showing voltage below .3, too much oxygen in exhaust
-5 to +5 is normal range for trims
The + and - numbers are the Dwell Time for the fuel injectors, the length of time they are Open.
0 is the computers calculated Open time based on air flow(MAF sensor) RPM, Throttle position/speed(load), and Factory specified fuel pressure.
So 0 is a floating number, based on the above and calculated on the fly
After calculation the computer also offsets the 0 based on Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT).
As an engine gets older it will get small air leaks, less fuel pressure, lower compression, so there needed to be a way for computer to adjust to wear and tear over time.
LTFT is that number, so computer doesn't have to "relearn" engine wear and tear at each startup.
So what are these numbers?
"Had the first fuel trim bank working for a bit then it went back to .7. Was reading 1.0-1.10, same as fuel trim bank 2."
O2s are either .1-.9 volt, the standard/narrow-band
or
0-5volts, wide-band
Computer(ecu, pcm) is programmed for one kind, so wouldn't "understand" other kind
Wide-band is definitely a better O2 setup to use, 1 volt range or 5volt range, lol, wider range will always be better, more precise
Wandering idle is normal on first startup, if computer has lost power or been reset.
Idle is a "learned" parameter in the computers memory.
It can take 2 or 3 drive cycles to get a stable idle.
One Drive cycle is a heat up and cool down, i.e. engine gets up to operating temp/closed loop and then a cool down, ECT sensor shows below 130degF with key on engine off.
I don't recognize your fuel trim numbers?
O2 voltage should rapidly change between .3 and .7 when cruising along, at idle above .5
Idle is always Rich to prevent overheating
Fuel trims are usually + or - numbers
- 4 would be Rich, computer is reducing fuel because O2 is showing voltage above .8, so Rich exhaust, not enough oxygen
+ 4 would be Lean, computer is adding fuel because O2 is showing voltage below .3, too much oxygen in exhaust
-5 to +5 is normal range for trims
The + and - numbers are the Dwell Time for the fuel injectors, the length of time they are Open.
0 is the computers calculated Open time based on air flow(MAF sensor) RPM, Throttle position/speed(load), and Factory specified fuel pressure.
So 0 is a floating number, based on the above and calculated on the fly
After calculation the computer also offsets the 0 based on Long Term Fuel Trim(LTFT).
As an engine gets older it will get small air leaks, less fuel pressure, lower compression, so there needed to be a way for computer to adjust to wear and tear over time.
LTFT is that number, so computer doesn't have to "relearn" engine wear and tear at each startup.
So what are these numbers?
"Had the first fuel trim bank working for a bit then it went back to .7. Was reading 1.0-1.10, same as fuel trim bank 2."
Last edited by RonD; 03-26-2017 at 12:20 PM.
#15
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
OK, but what does it mean?
What is the scale/range?
Is 1 OK, is 0 perfect 14.7:1 air:fuel?
Are there "-" numbers?
Fuel trim is the difference between computer's air/fuel calculation and O2 sensors exhaust data after that air/fuel has been burned.
Computer then "trims" the amount of fuel so O2 sensor stays between .3-.7 volts.
And that trim number needs to have a baseline and range so you know what it means.
Computers calculation is 0, if using +/- fuel trim numbers
So what is the 0(baseline) on the SCT Livewire, fuel is "trimmed" to .7 but from what point is it trimmed to .7?
Or is .7 the same as +7, lean, and 1.1 is +11?
What is the scale/range?
Is 1 OK, is 0 perfect 14.7:1 air:fuel?
Are there "-" numbers?
Fuel trim is the difference between computer's air/fuel calculation and O2 sensors exhaust data after that air/fuel has been burned.
Computer then "trims" the amount of fuel so O2 sensor stays between .3-.7 volts.
And that trim number needs to have a baseline and range so you know what it means.
Computers calculation is 0, if using +/- fuel trim numbers
So what is the 0(baseline) on the SCT Livewire, fuel is "trimmed" to .7 but from what point is it trimmed to .7?
Or is .7 the same as +7, lean, and 1.1 is +11?
#16
From a post I found on svtperformance.com: "1.25 means the computer is adding 25%, so the engine is running lean. Less than 1 is rich, more than 1 is lean. Say long term is 1.15 and short term is 1.20 then the car is actually 35% lean"
so it sounds like 25% needs to be taken (make more lean mixture) away from trim bank 1, and subtract 25% to richen up bank 2, but bank 1 doesn't change at all once it reaches that .7 mark. Even with a full throttle blip or holding 2500rpm. Notice how there's two maf counts in the video. Is that normal?
EDIT: both fuel banks change and register about the same when doing more than half throttle blips and holds. No backfires or lean sound, just won't idle. Once off throttle first bank returns to .7
so it sounds like 25% needs to be taken (make more lean mixture) away from trim bank 1, and subtract 25% to richen up bank 2, but bank 1 doesn't change at all once it reaches that .7 mark. Even with a full throttle blip or holding 2500rpm. Notice how there's two maf counts in the video. Is that normal?
EDIT: both fuel banks change and register about the same when doing more than half throttle blips and holds. No backfires or lean sound, just won't idle. Once off throttle first bank returns to .7
Last edited by D-Rod; 03-26-2017 at 06:30 PM.
#17
RF Veteran
iTrader: (1)
So 1 = 0 on computers calculation
And 1.25 is 25% richer?
You should be blowing black smoke if that was the case, is it?
Some devices use % sign just as a marker, I see that alot in OBD2 readers
But if their scale is 0 to 2 then that 25% would be correct, it is just a very very small scale.
.00 to 1.99, with 1.00 as calculated 14.7:1 air fuel ratio.
And you did check O2 sensor plug ins?
Driver side and passenger side wires are correct, because that would certainly explain Rich/Lean on opposite banks
You should also get a code that O2 sensor is Lean or Rich and not switching.
Short term fuel trim should go up and down on both banks often, computer has to do that so cat Converter can work, it needs to send Rich mix so cat stays hot enough to work.
I would expect .90 to 1.10 as average, but 1.15 wouldn't be abnormal because of small vacuum leaks
See if you have an AFR gauge for each bank, air fuel ratio.
14.7:1 is best MPG but will also overheat engine, lol, so you would usually see 13:1 even 12:1 when accelerating
AFR is what computer is using for calculations based on rpm, air flow and load
And 1.25 is 25% richer?
You should be blowing black smoke if that was the case, is it?
Some devices use % sign just as a marker, I see that alot in OBD2 readers
But if their scale is 0 to 2 then that 25% would be correct, it is just a very very small scale.
.00 to 1.99, with 1.00 as calculated 14.7:1 air fuel ratio.
And you did check O2 sensor plug ins?
Driver side and passenger side wires are correct, because that would certainly explain Rich/Lean on opposite banks
You should also get a code that O2 sensor is Lean or Rich and not switching.
Short term fuel trim should go up and down on both banks often, computer has to do that so cat Converter can work, it needs to send Rich mix so cat stays hot enough to work.
I would expect .90 to 1.10 as average, but 1.15 wouldn't be abnormal because of small vacuum leaks
See if you have an AFR gauge for each bank, air fuel ratio.
14.7:1 is best MPG but will also overheat engine, lol, so you would usually see 13:1 even 12:1 when accelerating
AFR is what computer is using for calculations based on rpm, air flow and load
Last edited by RonD; 03-26-2017 at 06:58 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ionspeedracer
OLD - Ranger Based Vehicles
0
02-21-2011 02:45 PM
joey v
2.9L & 3.0L V6 Tech
2
02-13-2008 11:00 PM